Kaz - AVO is not a possibility because we've never lived together - how pathetic! we've discussed paying to have a court order put in place to keep them off the property, but it's rather exxy and i don't think it would solve the problem - my brother lives in the same street, and because he works with the nephew, nephew turns up there when we're there. haven't faced his wife there for quite some time (SIL has told her she's not welcome) - but any court order that prevents them coming within x distance of us would impact my ability to visit my bro cos the nephew works with him - it's waaaaaaaay too complex!

have spoken to DH - he has decided the girls will find out like everyone else - in a card after Christmas - i'll believe that when he lets me post the cards. his initial reaction wast "why the hell should i tell them, they don't care about us". i feel really bad for him - i know the girls want to care, but they've been fed so many lies and aren't old enough (7 and 10) to tell mum to go to hell cos they want to call DH

mrsmac - what you seen of DH with your kidlets was nothing compared to what he's normally like - he was taking a step back so as not to overwhelm them (esp seeing Riley was in such an interesting mood!) - normally at a place like that (if he'd met you and the kids before) you and I would have been left to chat and he'd have been off doing whatever he could to keep them entertained. he's just that kind of guy. Riley would have gone home with more than one fluffy toy too!