Would you go into debt for your childs secondary education?

[widdly]

I love that idea Cricket

[Amity]

Ok I might get flamed for this, but anyway....

My parents are both teachers. They are wonderful people, and have worked in public schools, private schools and Catholic schools. I have so much respect for them as people, and as educators.

My family has always put a high degree of emphasis on education. My three siblings and myself all went to the local Catholic primary school (we are Catholic). I hated every minute of that primary school, as I was tormented and bullied the whole way through. It was one of the most awful experiences of my life. Most of those girls went to the local Catholic girls' secondary school, which is one of the "elite" two Catholic girls' schools in Melbourne with fees about $20K for Year 12 (currently). I didn't want to go to that school, so ended up sitting for scholarships to various different independent schools. I ended up at a wonderful independent girls' school, and have the most marvellous friends, memories and experiences from that school. I would, without a thought, send my daughter there (were I to have one). My brothers both went to the elite Catholic boys' school, again with fees of over $20K per year (currently). My younger sister also attended the school I attended.

My parents paid for us to attend these schools, on teacher's salaries. My mother was a SAHM for 13 years, so it was just my Dad at work. They went into debt, increased their mortgage, sacrificed family holidays and their own needs, just to pay for our private school education.

And my local high school is one of the top 3 in Victoria. We could have gone there for free.

Why did my parents do all they can to send us to private high schools? Because they believe that we obtain a better education in a private high school. The fees that are paid by parents are utilised to improve facilities, pay higher teacher salaries, offer more and varied extra curricular activities, and so on. When parents pay significant sums for their children to attend a private school, this tends to "weed out" those who are attending school because they have to, rather than because they are expected to learn. The parents place a high value on education, and generally the children do too.

Certainly, in Melbourne, the high school you attend is a vital point when looking for employment. I got my first job (at Target) pretty much because I attended the high school I attended. One of the first questions you are asked at university is "what high school did you go to?" It is also emphasised at job interviews. I know of places who will give someone who attended a private school a job, over those who attended a high school.

So, is this elitist? Yes it is.

Is it fair? No it's not.

However, it is how it is. My sons attend a local primary school. It is an absolutely wonderful school. Most of the children there will go on to a private high school.

Even though I will be living near one of the best public high schools in Victoria, I will sacrifice everything, work three jobs, cash in my super, sell my house, and do anything necessary to ensure that I can afford for my children to attend a private high school. This is the value that I place on my children's education. And I will be doing it on my own - I very much doubt that my XH will provide any contribution to the school fees. I anticipate that by the time my boys attend high school, the fees will be $30K a year, each. This is something I will have to budget for - I will go without, I know that, but to me it will be worth it.

I believe in free education. I believe that the teachers in the public system are fantastic, and do the best they can with the budgets that they are allowed. I particularly admire those teachers who work extremely hard in low socio-economic areas to improve the children who live there and to increase their chances of achieving all that they can.

However it will be my choice to educate my children at a private high school. I will pay for this. Gladly.

[Liz]

No one should be flamed for the choices they make... we all have different priorities in life

Robert Kyosaki's books are an interesting read about how people get caught in the whole cycle of education and employment.. he calls it the rat race. He talks about how relying on employment as your only source of income is very insecure and talks about ways to break free of the rat race. However, he acknowledges that a lot reject his ideas because it's drummed into us that we need education and employment. Reading his books has been an eye opener in how people live financially, and has reinforced what we already thought about education and the focus that's put on it in order to be employable.

Anyway, that's really a different topic, just thought I'd throw it out there as something that has influenced our view on it

[Bathsheba]

If there's any proof that private high schools don't all churn out snobs there you have it! Well said Divvy. You are an inspiration chicky. If my DD turns out half as smart, compassionate and generally gorgeous as you I'll be thoroughly proud! The sacrifices are tough and when you're there I'll be barracking for you too. Your parents sound amazing too. Thanks for your contribution

Also I totally agree about the fees for private school being put to good use in paying the teachers higher wages. I noticed this when I was working at the ELC at my DD's first Girls' school. Higher wages, better facilities, smaller classes... it's very tempting to want to teach at one. But like you I deeply admire the teachers like my BIL who (for the past 30 years) have taught in Melbourne's most under-privileged schools. I plan to do this too at least for a few years... until I inevitably burn out I guess. Every child does deserve a good education... but it's like anything private... our homes our cars our entertainment: it's just reality that we give what we can to those in need... but at the end of the day none of us in this thread are going to choose to live in the same circumstances as the most impoverished... do we feel guilty for buying better stuff for our kids than the poor? Probably not... so why not a better education? If we can afford it? And also: for every child that is placed in a private school that's one less child the government has to pay for in the public system. I have heard the argument that public school parents are sick of (as tax-payers) subsidising private schools... but that's the same as me (a non driver) being cross about so much money being spent on roads.

But yes, like Divvy so wisely said: the current (divided) system is NOT fair... but that's how it is. Like so much in our life our kids have better lives than some kids... what's the alternative? Make sure everybody gets exactly the same deal... in everything?

[Liz]

the current (divided) system is NOT fair... but that's how it is.

oooh.. don't let the activists over in the expressing milk thread hear you say that! LOL.

[Bathsheba]

I know what you mean I think Liz... but it's a bit different standing up for your own lactating rights in the workplace compared to leveling out the whole education system. I just don't think that it's right on any level for every child to get exactly the same education. Could I ask for Religion to be offered at my public school (more than 1/2 an hour too... I'm talking about a full Anglican church ceremony once a week, hymns included)? Could I please ask for strict uniform codes (that's what DH and value). And could all schools please offer the same subjects? And could they start earlier (8.40am) and finish later (3.40) and have a 3 week holiday in the middle of the year? And could class sizes hover around 10 - 15 in the first year of school and be no larger than 22 in the senior years?

It's a fair comment Liz but in reality it's just not what parents want... I don't think anyone would be happy with a total level system. It would be like telling everyone to drive the same car.

[Liz]

yeah.. I was just being cheeky And you're right in one respect.. I don't want education being drummed into my kids as the thing that makes or breaks them.. that they won't get anywhere without it. If Private schools churn out people that believe it's the most important thing, then that's not for us

If an employer rejected my kids on the grounds of WHERE they went to school as opposed to their score, their presentation, their personality, then I would be telling them it wouldn't be a good environment to work in anyway.. find more reasonable people to work for.

Heck.. my DH failed his HSC twice, and is now very employable in an industry that he loves, and is more valuable than people coming out with uni degrees (same with my bro.. cept he didn't flunk high school.. just didn't go to uni)

I guess our own life experiences influence us more than anything else. If pieces of paper are what have gotten people through life before, then they know no different and pass this on to their kids. Just as we are passing on to our kids that you don't need pieces of paper or expensive schooling to tell you you're valuable or employable

[Bathsheba]

Ok...Liz, I have worked something out LOL We misunderstand each other about something:

I don't want my children to value pieces of paper or doing an education for education's sake. I want my children to develop their natural curiosity... to become passionate about learning stuff that interests them... to not have all the enthusiasm for learning stuff squashed out of them... to not have to wait until every student is silent and sitting up straight to ask a question... I want my children's natural talents identified and shined so that they are bright in a NATURAL way that THEY find fulfilling. To get this they need inspired and inspiring teachers... who have the ability to actually teach (and not just discipline)... and who teach with passion.

This is why I said I don't care if my DD grows up to be a garbage collector... JUST as long as her talents are used somehow in life. When I attend parent teacher interviews the focus is on how my DD's personal talents are being polished. Personally I expect to hear that "hmmm, your DD is ruling the classroom and talking too much in class" (which they do tell me usually as needed via a phone convo) but instead I hear "Your DD has leadership potential, lets get her involved in the Future Leaders club". From what I know of the private system it has a strong focus on the individual... it is a system that makes something negative (ie outspokenness) into something positive... turns evil powers into good LOL

So do you "get" that I'm not seeking "bits of paper" for my kids? I honestly just want them to be respected in their learning journey and to be able to show respect to others and to most importantly shine as people, not just as future employees. Sounds like an interesting book too BTW (Robert Kyosaki's) I'll look into it

[Lulu]

I agree Div - a private education can certainly be the 'golden ticket' - and I most definitely agree with you there too Liz.
I KNOW my private education got me a couple of jobs over not having one. But I left them anyway cos I can rock it with the 'corporations of the world' no problem - I just don't want to.

The other thing to consider is how LONG that golden tickets lasts for. It doesn't last forever, there comes a point in your life where your secondary education or even Uni education doesn't mean much at all. It's the actual mark you make, not the paper in a frame on the wall...

xoxoxoxo