Netix - I got my best loaf from a long conversation lost in time. I think I kneaded for about 30mins or more! I had a lovely soft loaf, though. I also experimented with different kneading techniques, but am yet to decide 'the best'. Do you just plain wheat flour? I chop/change/mix my flours depending on what's in the cupboard: plain, wholemeal, spelt. All good fun!