I am the meanest Mum ever!!!

[Catastrophic]

That's what the kids tell me

[toomanyshoes]

We've been through something similar there, I just kept explaining that "hate" is a very strong and hurtful word.

Have you tried explaining to him how it makes you feel?

Try not to let it get you down, I'm sure you are a wonderful mum and he's just lashing out for some reason. I find talking with DS helps, asking what's going on to make him so angry and find solutions.

[Yeddi]

He most probably says it because he knows it's going to get a reaction - I doubt he doesn't know how it makes you feel, that's the point, he knows it makes you feel crappy. My DD has tried it on both DH and I, but we found it quickly stopped when we both blandly said, "Okay, doesn't change anything - you still have to do it (or can't have it)" or "that's too bad" and left it at that. It had no collateral then. Kids love to push buttons, that's how they refine us as parents, how they test and understand boundaries, and the go to buttons are always the emotional ones. I think he is simply trying to manipulate the situation to get what he wants. It's a control issue, and kids normally try take on these control issues at home (where it is safe) because they feel out of control else where (i.e. school, where what he does is dictated by the teacher). Perhaps he needs a hobby or outlet where he can feel empowered so he doesn't keep lashing out in the wrong areas. Could he start his own business? My daughter runs her "Henny Pennies". We bought an extra chicken so that we would always have too many eggs so she could sell the surplus to the neighbours or mum's at school.

[diannescruffy]

I completely feel your pain, I am also the one in this house that disciplines and get the "I hate you" too. I agree with toomanyshoes, sit him down and explain to him how upset it makes you when he says this. I actually say "I love you" when I get the "I hate you" it really stops them in their tracks. hun, it really is an awful feeling.


Regards,
Dianne

[Tinks]

I've learnt over the years that when they lash out like that it's because the punishment is working. He's realised you're not going to give up easily so he's pushing you further in order for you to give in so he can get what he wants - in this case his DS.

It's very hard to hear the 'i hate yous' and 'you're means' but you're doing a great job! Keep going

I've just read other replies, I wouldn't talk to him about his behaviour just yet. When it's time to give his DS back have a chat to him about why he thinks he lost it and how hurtful what he says is and discuss strategies to avoid him losing it again etc.

[Catastrophic]

Thanks for the replies girls xox

[toomanyshoes]

I thought I was over the tantrum throwing stage!

I had to laugh at that because I totally agree! I swear the tantrums are harder to deal with now they are older!

[Tinks]

I don't think the tantrums ever end!

We had one this morning because DS didn't like the way DD dressed for school

[Catastrophic]

:-D Glad i made you laugh! I get more stomping, screaming, door slamming from 7-8yo then i do from the 2-4 yo!

Oh boy Tinks, how did that one pan out?

[misty]

When any of us kids used to say that to my mum, she always used to tell us "Good. That means I'm doing my job correctly." We soon stopped telling her we hated her, because we realised she wasn't upset by it, so what was the point?

[Jewel]

Big, big hugs.

I'm going through the same thing at the moment with my 7yo. Gee, the tantrums.
It's great to know I'm so not the only one having to/had to deal with this, cause some days it sure feels like I'm the one only. ( I hope you know what I mean)

Is it the age, or something?

[Smoke Jaguar]

There's a lot going on for your DS's at the moment, MN - it doesn't make it 'right' that he is this way with you, doesn't make it 'wrong', either. Emotional maturity is a long way off and they'll need some strong guidance through this time, and any compassion you can send their way Here's some for you and here's some for them
Talk to their dad and see if you can't come up with a strategy together for the boys?
They're very lucky to have you

[berrme]

Now, I'm going to need help with the NO DS for 2weeks! I always give in half way through, he starts behaving, and looks at me with those sweet eyes! But this time, enoughs enough! send me your support, and tell me i'm not mean :-(

I understand why 'I hate you' bothers you, but why does it bother you if you get called mean? To him, taking away the DS is mean, that is why you did it... you know it is something that will bother him. He says mean things to you in response because he knows it bothers you. You just have to be the meaner/ stronger one. You know that these punishments are for the good of everyone in the house in the long run, there is a purpose for being mean. Don't give the DS back, don't show him that you are upset by his words. This time you have to follow through. I am with Tinks... no emotional discussions until his 2 weeks is up.

I don't have big kids of my own yet, but I teach highschool so know about bad tween/ teen behaviour. I find that discussing with kids what they feel is a suitable consequence for their behaviours is a good way to stop the arguments. If they do __________, then such and such happens. If they do it again then something a bit tougher happens etc. If they have had a role in deciding the consequences then they really have no comebacks. And it isn't always about how serious the consequence is, just the certainty that it will happen.

[Smoke Jaguar]

I don't believe in punishments, actually. Not the ones you set up.
Ya know, I read somewhere once, and it really struck a chord (my DS is reeeeeeeeally challenging lately, with living at MiL's and her arbitrary rules and toing and froing between the farm and her place, to settling into here and starting kinder), that when you think the child least deserves a hug is probably when it is most needed.
Setting up an oppositional relationship will backfire at some stage. It doesn't mean you're 'soft', as in 'weak', it just means you are 'soft', as in, compassionate. I decided a little while ago that I'd prefer to be DS's soft place to land. I don't bother with withdrawal of toys, privileges etc, because I remember those feeling as good as a slap in the head, when I was little, and I clearly remember them doing nothing to instil any sort of respect, let alone a 'lesson'.
Alfie Kohn (you can google his articles) goes through the con of rewards and punishments really well - well worth a read, and bases a lot of his work on Parent Effectiveness Training.
You're not on the wrong track to have your heart tweaked by compassion - if you feel bad about it, then your instincts are telling you something

[berrme]

I don't believe in punishments, actually. Not the ones you set up.
Ya know, I read somewhere once, and it really struck a chord that when you think the child least deserves a hug is probably when it is most needed.
Setting up an oppositional relationship will backfire at some stage. It doesn't mean you're 'soft', as in 'weak', it just means you are 'soft', as in, compassionate. I decided a little while ago that I'd prefer to be DS's soft place to land. I don't bother with withdrawal of toys, privileges etc, because I remember those feeling as good as a slap in the head, when I was little, and I clearly remember them doing nothing to instil any sort of respect, let alone a 'lesson'.

I agree with this, hence getting them to decide on consequences rather than punishments. It doesn't have to be something horrible or long lasting, maybe that they have to sit down quietly until they are ready to talk nicely. Maybe they think it would be fair to have to do the washing up an extra time this week. For some kids you might decide that running around the house 3 times is good as it clears their head. There doesn't need to be yelling, just a reminder of the previous discussion and what was decided then. All you want is for them to stop the behaviour and think twice about it next time.The important thing is that they are involved in a discussion about what is and isn't appropriate first and they understand when they are out of line.

In this case however, I think the consequence has been handed down and needs to be followed through on. Next time can be dealt with completely differently. It is quite possible that we are talking about a very strong minded 8 year old boy who will never respond well to threatening situations where he is yelled at and punished. He may respond very well to be spoken to like he is a bit grown up and knowing what he should do instead of the yelling and insults.

[Catastrophic]

.... ...

[berrme]

Berrme - Thanks for your post xoxox I talked to him last night, about his behaviour and why he got his DS taken off him, but this morning I got the same behaviour, hence why i am following through with this consequence.
I am a little insulted with what you are saying "spoken to like a grown up and knowing what he should do instead of the yelling and insults" I don't yell and insult my kids :-( I do talk to them, and discuss what it is i expect off them. Maybe I am reading this the wrong way, and I'm sorry if i did. A little emotional xoxox

MummeNurse, I meant that he knows what he should do rather than yell at and insult you, not that you yell at and insult him. I didn't mean to criticise you. I just know how easy it is to still just give instructions even when we talk to them calmly, rather than involving them in the decision making process.

[Catastrophic]

Thanks for clarifying xoxo


Love MN ;-)