Forgiveness (following on from Grudge thread)

[Sopdet]

There was a lot of talk about forgiveness etc in the grudge thread so I though I'd start a thread on forgiveness.

A wise workmate once said to me (many moons ago, I think I was still in my 20s)

"I forgive the person, I don't forgive the action".

Could you, or would you forgive the person?

For me, I've very much, over the last few years, started forgiving the person for things they've done, but never forgiven the act.

For example: an xp, he was totally spineless in the manner he broke up with me, I'll never forgive that, but I have forgiven him, I know his family, they're spineless, he knew no better, so he's been forgiven but the action hasn't. Does this make sense?

[Muffy]

Yes that makes total sense!

I can usually forgive the person.. but not the action!

[toomanyshoes]

It makes perfect sense.

I also believe that forgiving doesn't mean forgetting. But I believe if you forgive someone you no long hold that "over their head".

[AnyDream]

I disagree with the semantics, although I think I agree with the thrust of what you are saying.

The reason I disagree with it, is because I think a really powerful part of the act of forgiveness is bearing witness to what happened and then letting it go. The bearing witness part means really acknowledging powerfully the wrongness, the pain, the guilt you may feel for allowing it to happen, your grief for what you have lost, etc. That witness is the not-forgetting part. But unless you can stand in that place you haven't really forgiven anything, you're just in denial.

[briggsy's girl]

it really depends on whether it's a one off, or systemic.

was it something i can live with if i still have the person in my life, or has it been a number of things building up to the point i simply can't trust the person

case in point - DH's family. i forgave the "worst offender" many sins - she was one of my best friends. i tried to keep the peace between her and DH, i tried to sooth tempers. but it didn't help. the bitterness she felt towards DH (which i STILL can't work out) spilled over on to me, and i became the target. i can forgive a lot of actions, but when you take my angel babies and use them as a weapon against me, sorry, not a chance. there is a limit - a very solid line in the sand - you cross that, it's all over.

i have forgiven many things - i have worked to rebuild friendships that "died" because of issues i have decided weren't worth losing the friendship. i can't FORGET, but i can live with the fact that something happened - it is just there as a reminder to tread slightly more carefully with that person. with the member of DH's family though, caution didn't work - i tried that. so now it's the "sinner" as well as the "sin" that stands there - and i can't (won't?) change that.


Forgive, sounds good
Forget, I'm not sure I could
They say time heals everything
But I'm still waiting

[*LittleMissSummer*]

Great thread!

My experience with forgiveness would be my bestfriend in high school, she did something that most people wouldn't forgive and i most certainly havent for what she did but i have forgiven her. When we were 17 she was dating her now DP and he and his two best friends had this bet going first to sleep with 69 girls got $200. I was the only girl they hadn't slept with so she got me drunk we all went to the lake and the plan was one by one they would sleep with me, so she could go around our school and call me a sl*t. We didnt talk for 4 years and we bumped into each other briefly and arranged to catch up as she lives only a few streets from me now. I have forgiven her but never what she did.

And just like with my SIL i'll never forgive what she has done to me, all the things she has said or any of the stress she has caused my relationship to have but maybe one day ill get past that and forgive her.

[Sopdet]

I don't forget the action or forgive it.

In a lot of cases, I've been able to confront the person, letting them know that I forgive them but I will neither forgive or forget their actions. If the actions were bad enough then they're gone from my life, as I don't need toxic people like that around me.

I saw what resentment, grudges and lack of forgiveness did to one of my besties, in the illnesses it manifested in her, I never ever want to journey down that path.

[AnyDream]

So either way Sopdet there is a letting-go process. Whether it's forgiveness or some other type of release, it's absolutely critical to your health and wellbeing. Agree 100% with the way it results in real actual illness when you hang on to stuff.

[briggsy's girl]

Agree 100% with the way it results in real actual illness when you hang on to stuff.

i agree with this - it is part of why i decided i needed to make the effort to move past things with a couple of people in my life. it took time, it took talking, it took acknowledgement of the wrongs (real and perceived) on both sides (i, in no way, hold them solely responsible for what transpired) and a rebuilding of our relationship on a different basis

but DH's family - i will wear the illness! i will deal with the anxiety attacks, and i will put up with feeling ill - my DD deserves my respect more than anything else - and i respect her to the point i will protect her from their toxicity. unfortunately, due to location and other intermingled relationships, i can't entirely cut them from our lives - so i have to be aware and alert, and bring out the mumma bear protectiveness whenever it's required - and deal with the implications for my own health later

[diannescruffy]

So either way Sopdet there is a letting-go process. Whether it's forgiveness or some other type of release, it's absolutely critical to your health and wellbeing. Agree 100% with the way it results in real actual illness when you hang on to stuff.

Agree totally, it's a healthy process to forgive someone and sometimes it's even harder to forgive their actions. By hanging on to something bad just eats you up inside, I am able to forgive people but I also believe it is important to forget, they go hand in hand. Recently I've had to confront this with my SIL and struggled to find forgiveness in what she did, I have forgiven her but not her actions but that will come in time.

Regards,
Dianne

[~Lashes~]

there is only so much you can forgive, i feel more that it has to be more a form of acceptance.

i can forget, i can move on i can also forgive. some people do not let you.
there are some people who beg for forgiveness yet once they have it and you feel you can move on and continue on with life, they bring it up and make a big deal about it and hold back moving on. with these people ther is no forgiveness or forgetting as they say they need it, but cant accept it.
if they are able to accept all is forgiven and/or fogoten then you can move on, but if they cant accept that, then the ability to move on is lost

[Sopdet]

Agree 100% with the way it results in real actual illness when you hang on to stuff.

Hers manifested in quite aggressive breast cancer, but it was the kick she needed to let go of a few things, by the time her treatment started she was in a much better headspace, looked at her health from a wholistic view, as in her whole body/mind wellbeing before treatment started and the way she reacted to the treatment just amazed us, didn't loose her hair until quite late in her treatment, it started growing back within a month, she has hair now and she only finished all her treatement just before Christmas.

For me, I was holding onto lack of forgiveness, couldn't forgive certain people in my life, couldn't move past their actions, but I sat down and really thought about things, realised that I needed to release their hold on my life, so I forgave them, in some cases I have forgiven the action, but that was at the point that they were banished from my life, I didn't want to hold on to anything to do with them and I feel fantastic for it now.

[Fleur]

I disagree with the semantics, although I think I agree with the thrust of what you are saying.

The reason I disagree with it, is because I think a really powerful part of the act of forgiveness is bearing witness to what happened and then letting it go. The bearing witness part means really acknowledging powerfully the wrongness, the pain, the guilt you may feel for allowing it to happen, your grief for what you have lost, etc. That witness is the not-forgetting part. But unless you can stand in that place you haven't really forgiven anything, you're just in denial.

Totally agree with this.

I saw what resentment, grudges and lack of forgiveness did to one of my besties, in the illnesses it manifested in her, I never ever want to journey down that path.

Yes to this too, I truly believe this, it will always manifest eventually.

but DH's family - i will wear the illness! i will deal with the anxiety attacks, and i will put up with feeling ill - my DD deserves my respect more than anything else - and i respect her to the point i will protect her from their toxicity. unfortunately, due to location and other intermingled relationships, i can't entirely cut them from our lives - so i have to be aware and alert, and bring out the mumma bear protectiveness whenever it's required - and deal with the implications for my own health later

I think sometimes, maybe it can be about what space you put it in. You're not holding it for the sake of being negative & angry, you're doing it from a protective POV.
Sometimes when you change the feeling, the way you view it, you change the energy around it, ITMS? So the end result is the same - but the reason behind it is a very positive one, being that you are keeping her from certain negativity.

I think sometimes there is a need to forgive the act, not just the person. Sometimes I have had to... I've had to try & gain some understanding & empathy of where that person was at that time...
I still acknowledge that I was hurt, that what happened was wrong. But maybe it had to happen to me, for my growth or learning... or maybe I just can see why it happened and separate the act from the person.

Ergh I think I'm rambling now....

[Kazzo]

there is only so much you can forgive, i feel more that it has to be more a form of acceptance.

This is my situation with my mother. I don't think I have really forgiven her for a incident many years ago. I don't think I ever will. But I have accepted that and we still have a relationship, just not like it ever was before.

So for me I could not forgive the person or the act. But I found a way that works for me that I no longer dwell on it. Helps too that my mum now lives over 10hours away

[Colin Holmes]

Great thread!

This is something I’ve learned from a person called David Wil****. I myself am getting more and more to that level where these negative experiences simply don’t give me any value because I don’t let myself get attached to them:

Negative experiences will repeat for as long as they remain useful to you. Well then you have to ask what does useful mean? If something ****es you off, then you’re getting value/use out of it because its co-creating an emotional reaction. So if you can learn to not get too attached to the moment and simply let the experiences move through you without getting stuck to you – and you bless and you release and you forgive and you accept and you love. Then more and more those experiences wont repeat anymore because you’re not gonna get any value out of them. They wont hold any value for you.

If you believe you cant forgive someone, or you don’t want to, or you shouldn’t, etc. Then that believe is limiting you from being free and being at peace with yourself and therefore being at peace with others as well. In my opinion forgiveness is so vital in our lives if you want to experience more positive feelings, be happy and really enjoy life as much you can.