How do you convince someone not to give up?

[C~Q]

I really didn't know if this was the right place to put this but I couldn't think of another and really, I think I need to grow in order to be the best possible support person I can be...

So how do you, firstly make yourself into someone strong enough to take on another persons burdens/issues...whatever...

And more importantly what do you say to someone who has given up on life. Just thrown in the towel and admits that they have nothing left to give and just want it to end already?

Is there ever a time when you say "yep, this is ****, it's all **** and I have nothing more to tell you". Does it ever get to the point where you've exhausted every option and you say "I understand"??

Do you keep saying "it'll be ok" when you're pretty sure it won't? Or it'll work out when your pretty sure it won't? Do you lie? Or do you say nothing and just hold them?

What if you can't physically be there all the time...what do you say on the phone or via text?

And i'm sorry to be banging on about DP all the time, you're probably sick of it...but i've made the decision to be there and stay with him till the end so I need find the tools to deal with him and this bastard of a thing called cancer.

TIA x

[emc2]

That's a hard one. I do know there's a counselling line called "Life Goes On" for people facing terminal illness which is manned by some survivors and others who've been through the same or cared for someone.

[C~Q]

Thanks hun i'l google it now x

[Madham]

CQ I don't have any advice as i haven't been in your position just wanted to give you gbh

[toomanyshoes]

In all honesty I think continually hearing "it will be ok" when in fact there is little to no chance of survival would drive me up the wall.

I don't know how you become strong, my mum has always been the rock in our family. Someone got sick she was the one everyone turned to, she had the answers, got the ball rolling, knew what was going to have to happen next but then my father committed suicide and just before my 21st birthday I had to step up to the plate. There was no one to fall on, I had to pick up the pieces, I had to hold her hand (mind you they had been divorced since I was 3), I had to work out what to do next. I don't think you can become strong, or maybe its more I don't think you can force it upon yourself, you either have it or you don't. I think most of us having it hiding inside and there needs to be a trigger.

Have you straight out asked him what he wants from you at this point? In a supporting roll type of thing?

I don't think you can really do more than hold his hand and make him comfortable, if this is how he wants to treat his condition you have to respect that.

Honestly if he is constantly messaging you about just wanting it over and waiting for it all to end then I would ignore that, it must be very hard on you and I think he needs to realise the drain that must be on you. Maybe just ask if there is anything you can do? And if no, leave it at that.

[C~Q]

Thanks guys x You're right tms, I would be the same which is why I gues I want to know what I can say, what I should say...I can't say it'll be alright but then again I can't say "you're right it's all stuffed" yanno?

He doesn't want anything from me, constantly tells me there is nothing I can do. And it's not about that really...I don't want to know what to do as such...just help with what to say and how to be around him. I know I should just be myself but I don't know whether to be the eternal optimist or quiet and just listen. I can be the eternal optimist...it's quite easy for me...its the way I think. But I can see it can also be quite annoying, maybe he wants me to agree and say that it's not fair and that it shouldn't be happening to him.

and when, if ever, do you say that you can understand when they say they want to end it all? Because I can understand it, and that devastes me.

[BellyBelly]

Can you watch some comedies or anything fun with him? Cant go into detail now but they had a whole day on health today including cancer. Tony Robbins lead trainer was speaking as Tony has to rest his voice every second day due to the tumour in his throat.

Anyways Joseph told of several stories, including his own mother of cancer. He says there are two types of cancer; CAN-survive and CAN-surrender. He told of research out there that when cancer survival rates were low, like in the 80's and people given a verdict - a timeline of survival - would often die the following day or so. Like they had condemned themselves to death.

His mother was given 90 days or something, and he fought the doctor not to give her the verdict. He said, I appreciate your diagnosis, but I refuse to accept your verdict - and almost got escorted out by security in the process lol. He brought in his VCR and tapes and made her laugh as much as she could. She lived for another 11 years. Other stories included other cancers deemed terminal. You can accept and surrender, or you can try and heal yourself.

You also hear from nurses in the outback where they will have an aboriginal admitted to hospital, they cant work out whats wrong, the patient says they got pointed at by 'the bone' or whatever it is, that is a symbol of death from their community.

I am a huge believer in the mind when it comes to health. Diet and lifestyle is also massive, but the approach to treating these people about accepting death - laughter and humour are such a great thing.

Perhaps an honest word, that you want to be there and support him. See if he's open to opening his mind....

[toomanyshoes]

I think ultimately you should be honest. I don't think there is a "right things to say and not to say" list, everyone is different but if I knew someone prior to getting sick (or in the very early stages) and they were one way I would be disappoint if they were someone else towards the end.

Maybe move away from it having to be "fight it" or "you're stuffed" and more about.....(trying to think of the right words)...I'm not sure how to word it but maybe just listen to him, you don't need to respond in those kinds of way. Tell him you think this sucks and you can understand he's tired and wants it to end.

Does he seek you out for contact or is it you contacting him? I'm not trying to be nasty but do you think maybe he really doesn't want anything from you at this point? Maybe you should listen to that, maybe give him some space. What's the longest you have gone without contact since it got really bad? Maybe go a week or so and then touch base with "still here, still thinking about you and how much this sucks, if you need anything I'm always here" or something along those lines.

I know you want to be there for him, I know you want to support him but if he really doesn't want you around I also think you need to respect that. Maybe seeing you suffer is more pain for him?

[Phteven]

I think to a certain extent you do have to keep up the optimism. My brother has cancer and on top of everything else he has to comfort people and reassure them about how he is coping and that sucks. I think that it's important that if you are his main support person that your DP doesn't have to comfort you.
On the other hand there is not much point in telling lies just to sound upbeat - it's a really tough balancing act and you need to be so strong

Please don't apologise for posting about your DP so much. It's huge. And you need support to be a support so please let us support you. Keep posting whenever you need to. Whatever you need to - be angry, be sad, be cynical, have a laugh. It's all ok.
And if you need extra privacy to say the really ugly stuff there is the grief forum.

[HotI]

I like to go with 'Plan for the worst, Hope for the best'. So, if there are things that you want him to know, or things he wants to do- don't put them off, make plans and do them now. If you do all these things, and then the cancer disappears, you haven't lost anything and you can go on to think of more things you want to do. Hope is really important, for you and for him, hope that things will work out and you will enjoy long times together. But don't miss out on doing things, just in case the time is not as long as you want.

take care

[C~Q]

Perhaps an honest word, that you want to be there and support him. See if he's open to opening his mind....

This is the saddest thing Kel...he is so open minded and very spiritual, in the past he has disappeared off to yoga retreats for months on end and used to meditate every day. But the pain seems to have stript all that away. He's been so positive for years and just doesn't have it any more...well I think he does, he just needs to find it again.

So Tony Robbins has a tumor?? I love the idea of comedies, i'll grab some on the way up on Weds and see if that cheers him up. At least I know thats one thing I can do...make him laugh (sometime with me, more often at me lol).

TMS - I guess it's a bit of both wrt to contact, I mean we are in a relationship so we talk almost every day. When he goes a couple of days with no contact I know he's in a bad place and I try and get up there quick smart. This is the thing, he says there is nothing I can do to help but he wants me there, it's really sad...he gets the days confused and then texts saying "where are you" and I have to tell him it's Mon not Weds I know at the very least I can go up there and clean the house and cook him something decent...or if he's up to it he cooks, he's awesome and i'm well, crap!

Onyx, it is a tough balance isn't it, and I know i'm going to make mistakes. It's just so hard, sometimes when he cries and I go and hug him he squeezes me so hard, and other times he pushes away. I suppose I just have to be consistant and not take it personally when he does push away. Thank you for putting that about posting...I do worry that people will think "not that again" but BB is helping me so much, it's keeping me sane when all of my family are finding it so hard to understand.

HotI - yano you just made me think about some stuff, thank you. Hes flat broke and i'm not doing amazingly but I think it's important to find some things that don't cost much, or anything at all. Stupid question, but does the sun rise or set over the ocean in SEQ?

emc2 - i've joined up on that website, i think getting tips from people that are going through the same thing would be a great resource as well x

[BellyBelly]

Yes he has. But you know Tony, he's not gonna accept that and lie down Just like when a business partner almost sent him bankrupt from ripping him off. Perhaps you might share my story with him and see if that snaps him back into his spiritual state? His story is putting him in a bad state, he needs to change his story... Shame he couldnt have come to the seminar. Such powerful transformations. Maybe Robbins has some DVDs that might help. Hes not a motivational speaker, he's a brilliant strategist and is paid $1M for his one on one coaching by the best in the biz. He's worth every cent too.

To help you come to peace too, check out some Byron Katie stuff on YouTube. I know it sounds morbid, but look up, 'Thankyou for dying on time,' which is about death. Might help with some coping tools for you.

[Colin Holmes]

Even I have to admit this is a hard one. Those kind of people, who think there is nothing worth living for, are in my opinion the ones that need help the most.

My best advise it to ask questions to make him think of positive things in (his) life to change his self-destructive focus towards a more loving, peaceful and happy one where he will start to notice all the good things in his life.

edit: Sorry C~Q, I wasnt aware of you backstory

[fionas]

C-Q, I'm so sorry, I don't know the full situation so my thoughts may not be very appropriate. But I've often thought about how I would approach a terminal illness (and I'm not sure if your DP's cancer is terminal or fight-able).

I guess, to a certain extent, it comes down to choices. I would feel conflicted if I had a terminal illness if I wasn't sure whether to keep fighting or whether to accept death. For someone who has always been afraid of death, like me, that would be mighty difficult even if I felt there was no hope. But I would hope to get to a place where I accepted the situation for whatever it was.

It sounds like your DP needs to find some peace and some approach that is manageable for him. That might be to accept that what he is facing is really difficult but still worth fighting and that might be to accept his own mortality, try to make his last days happy.

[C~Q]

It is fightable, the docs want him to have surgery and radiotherapy and he is refusing both. He doesn't believe this is the end...he thinks that we go on somewhere else, or so he says but I don't think he's at peace with it at all.

He seems to be in a place now where he is looking at everything and saying "this sucks". And my challenge is to find something that doesn't...and that is a real challenge.

He has a rare cancer and won't treat it with conventional medicine and so is dying. He has no money left. He has no energy or money to finish renovating his house and so will have to sell it for a much smaller figure. He won't get another loan. He can't train. His mother owes him $30K which means he'd be able to stay in his house for another year but she won't pay it back. He is far from his friends. He is in constant pain. He hasn't slept for more than 3 hours at a time in about 2 years.

When presented with all of this what do I say to him? You have me? I'm an hour and a half away at the moment and even when i'm closer I still have the kids, I can't be there whenever he needs.

I don't know where to show him the light in his life is because, to be honest, I can't see it! He has no dependants, he has lived his whole life being so strong and independant and now at the age of 39 he's realising he's about to lose it all.

I think he really put his heart and soul into the Black Salve treatment and it's really knocked him down that it hasn't worked. I just wish I could convince him to have the surgery...but he won't. i don't care if he loses the side of his head, I don't care what he looks like, I don't care if I have to look after him till he gets well. I love him, as far as i'm concerned it's not even anything I have to think about...but he has his reasons and I have to accept that.

It's so weird, i've never been that close to anyone as an adult that has died of a long illness before. it is just so unbelievably unfair. He feels the same and thats where a lot of the frustration comes in. He has always been so fit, so healthy, black belt in martial arts, personal trainer, deep sea diver, he surfed, he rock climbed...gees he represented his country in Juijitsu. And he balanced all that with Yoga and meditation. This is someone who has never drunk a lot and has always eaten really well and hates anything made with chemicals. he did everything RIGHT. It's not fair

ETA sorry for the self indulgant whinge...and thank you Kel, colin and Fi...I know he needs to be positive and I really believe that is one og the most if not the most important tool in beating this. But what do I say when he asks what he's got to be positive about?

[fionas]

so it sounds like conventional medicine goes against all his core beliefs and that he almost feels like a failure if he takes the conventional medicine approach, d'you think? I guess in that situation, maybe I'd be saying that nothing in life is black and white. It's OK to try other things, that doesn't make him a failure or make what he's built his life on a failure. But it's also OK not to try it but he has to weigh up the pros and cons and be at peace with either route. It's just that he's NOT at peace.

I know that's really simplifying a really complex situation C-Q and I'm really not trying to trivialise it. I just go into super-sensible mode when faced with very tricky issues and that can make me seem completely insensitive.

[BellyBelly]

You cant take it all on hon. You can be there for him, love him, try etc but you can't be responsible for what he's thinking/saying. Hopefully he finds it in himself to reject the verdict and fight, but you cannot make him nor be responsible for having to do or say the right thing. This is a big test for him now.

The terminal cancer I mentioned above, they did not have chemo, anything. The woman with breast cancer on The Secret didnt either. She reduced her stress and watched funny movies, repeated grattitude mantras all day. Perhaps watch it with him?

Cancer thrives on a lack of oxygen in the body, they dont do well where its highly oxygenated. What increases oxygen in the body? You might know this - lots of water, deep diaphram breathing, exercise (as best he can). Does he have a healthy diet? Wheatgrass is very cleansing.

[C~Q]

Fi - i'm the same, well I go from being really emotional to shut off and clinical...clinical is easier. You're right, it is against everything he believes and things like chemo are just not an option for him. I think he just can't accept that he can't find any other way of killing it...he's tried so much and nothing is working.

Kel - so the cancer you were talking about...was it all positive thinking? Or did they do anything else? Embarrassed to admit that I haven't watched The Secret...but there'sa woman on there with breast cancer? I'll go and buy it and we can watch it together.

I honestly believe that we physically manifest emotional problems and I almost know that he's not getting well because of this crap with his mother. There is so much anger and biterness and hatred towards her...so much. It's eating him up inside and I really think it's fuelling the cancer. And I think he knows it too but i can't get him to come to terms with the situation. He can't change her, he can't understand her, he just has to accept her. So maybe I need to try harder to get him to understand that?

ETA - sorry Kel, he does have a heathy diet, and he's following all the "rules" no sugar etc. He is starting to exercise again a little bit. Although it's hard, we went for a surf the other day and it whiped him for ages.