Alternatives to CIO?

[Artechim]

I have had 4 years without a full night of sleep, too many nights to count of hourly wake ups, night tantrums lasting hours, sitting on beds for thousands of resettles all in an effort to avoid leaving my babies to cry. But now DD (nearly 2) has me completely out of ideas and we are currently resorting to CIO methods.

She has been waking around 1-2am, won't resettle, screams for an hour or two and trashes her room until she crawls into bed exhausted, sleeps for maybe an hour and then wakes up screaming again. We can then either get her up for the day at 4am or listen to her scream until later.

She will resettle if I sit on the bed but I cannot leave the room. It is not really viable for me to sit on her bed the whole night.
DH tried sleeping in bed with her but she fights to get up and screams like nothing I have heard before.
We tried putting her in our bed but she was fighting and screaming.
We tried returning her to bed every 2-3 minutes for a few nights but she still screamed and it lasted for hours.

There is nothing wrong with her apart from a dose of separation anxiety - she just doesn't want me to leave.

I hate leaving her in there screaming her head off for hours and I am not getting any extra sleep. Whoever said it took three nights of CIO was full of crap because it has been 8 long, long nights now and there is no sign of any improvement on the horizon.

I just don't know what to do with her

[~Trish~]

HUUUGGGEEE hugs . You must feel so tired and frustrated .

I wish I had a magic solution for you. I can only offer some ideas to try, but I wish I had an answer for you!

I had some issues with DS2 waking at night at around the same age, so I bought a cot toy thingy for his bed. It is a Fisher Price one that has music and lights. I told him it was his special bedtime toy that he could only play with at bedtime, this of course made it exciting for him to go to bed that night! I told him he could press the button and play a song (with lights coming on) before he went to sleep. I also told him that if he woke up at night, instead of calling out for me, he could press the button and watch the toy again. This worked fantastically and it stopped his night time crying out. I guess it gave bedtime a positive feel again and the lights and music brought him comfort if he woke up scared.

This might be worth a try? I'm happy to send you my toy if it will help you! Just send me a PM . Does she have a night light in her room otherwise? DS2 will only sleep with his on, otherwise he wakes up scared in the dark.

The other suggestion I have, which may sound silly, is to tell your DD as you're putting her to bed that when she wakes up and cries at night, it makes mummy very tired and sad. Tell her that if she wakes up, she doesn't need to cry, she can just close her eyes, cuddle her favourite toy/blankie/dummy/whatever works and she will go back to sleep. Yes, it sounds weird, but it works really well with my DD (who is almost 2) when she's gotten in a habit of calling out at night.

Have you tried ringing and speaking with a MCHN or sleep school, just for some ideas? They might have some alternatives to CIO for a toddler.

I hope you find a solution soon

[kelebek]

CIO never worked for us either.... 3 nights argh.... I wish. I know this may not work for everyone but for our family the only thing that works is having DS in a king single and I join him most nights from about 2amish.... we have had maybe 10 nights where I wake up at 6am thinking wow I am in my bed We all get more sleep that way

[Artechim]

Thanks for the replies.

Trish, she has a night light but she just isn't there with the comprehension to understand any reasoning/bribe kind of stuff. She is only just starting to follow basic instructions like getting her shoes. It is very frustrating.

Kelebek, she is in a king single bed and DH has tried sleeping in with her which used to work, but now she shrieks like she is having nails pulled out. I can't sleep in with her because I have another baby due in 5 weeks and I can't have her up and screaming every time I get up to feed the baby.

I did talk to the local health nurse today at a breastfeeding week gathering, I ended up in tears in front of everyone!! So embarrassing I don't think there are sleep schools here in NZ, or at least not in the area I am in but she is going to give me some print outs for dealing with resettling and we have an appointment to get her ears checked properly next week. I am really hoping she has an issue with her ears that might just solve the problem!

[~Trish~]

I hope you get some answers with the health nurse

she just isn't there with the comprehension to understand any reasoning/bribe kind of stuff. She is only just starting to follow basic instructions like getting her shoes. It is very frustrating.

It's amazing what they comprehend without us realising it, I've been using the line about going back to sleep with my DD for a long time and she seems to understand .

More hugs .

[Just Me]

It sounds really awful. We tried CIO too because we were desperate and it backfired big time ... DD1 just freaked out anytime she thought we were going to put her in her cot. It was awful.

I am like Trish and can only offer suggestions ... have you thought about a nightlight or leaving the door open. All my kids when they have hit that age have liked having the door open though we did close it when they were smaller. They weren't in the cot anymore by that stage.

The other issue we had was DS1 started having night terrors around 18 months. I don't know if that is what is going on with your DD but that's what we had with DS and it was pretty full on for a few months. We figured out that when he first woke up, he would scream, but he wasn't really awake and us going in to him was just waking him up. We decided to just wait for a couple of minutes and see and he started settling himself.

I don't know if either of those suggestions are any help to you but I thought I would put it out there just in case.

I hope you find something that works for you soon

[onthefly]

I would definitely try to rule out any physical problems. Also maybe consider diet?

I don't have any real advice beyond that, sorry. I suspect though that if it is separation anxiety, then CIO would only make it worse Really tough situation for you guys to be in

[kelebek]

argh it must be really hard for you. Ummmmmm I give DS some toys to play with that helps him to fall asleep.
I have heard that kids with big tonsils/agnoids have more problems and once they are out it is like they are a different child but that is a long process too

Have you tried the no cry sleep solution by Elizabeth Prately? I know people who have used it with sucess. Thinking of you.

[onthefly]

Hi again, I had a few thoughts.

You could try Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers. She also has a website and I think she answers email questinos, so maybe see if she has any suggestions?
Soem people find a sleep book with pictures of their child can help - they read it with their kids before bed to get them accustomed to a new 'routine'. it takes a bit of repetition (and can be used in conjunction with verbal queues like Trish suggested).
The other idea was using an excuse. When I was pregnant with DD, DS went through this phase of refusing to bathe (will not have a shower) unless i got in the bath with him. After a while I was just too big. I told him this and remarkably, he just accepted it. He was a bit older than your DD is now, but maybe worth a shot.

[~clover~]

DS had me up alot of nights just before DD3 was born & I was left frusterated wondering how the heck I was going to survive, but he did settle again.
I sat by the bed. Night, after night, after night. He still won't go to bed without me, but once he's out, he's out for the night.

I hope she settles soon x

[Artechim]

Thanks.

I spoke to the health nurse again and she said if the hearing check doesn't show up anything ear-wise that might be causing a problem then the next most likely thing is night terrors. I don't know much about them. Seems to fit though, waking up screaming and she won't go back to sleep unless I am holding her/sitting next to her. I hope not because it doesn't sound like an easy thing to fix

I tried the no cry sleep solution baby book with no success when DS was little. The health nurse is going to get me some sleep printouts, she is really helpful so I am hoping we might be able to come up with something.

MadB, yes, the CIO is making her separation anxiety much worse during the day. I just don't know what else to do - she is going to scream unless I am right next to her and I just can't manage sitting on her bed from 1am onwards. Don't think books or talking to her will have any effect, she just doesn't understand. She understands here and now things but has no concept of something expected later iykwim.

Clover, I still have to sit next to my 4yo for him to go to sleep, as well as sitting by him once or twice a night to resettle him when he wakes. I sit by DD to get her to sleep initially and would have been happy to sit by her for resettles until this recent mess when she won't let me escape!

It is just so frustrating!! I can't believe how bad my kids have been sleep-wise. It can't be just bad luck, I am sure it is something that I have done. Maybe they don't have the right nature for excessive comforting because it all seems to have led in a downward spiral.

[HotI]

Have you tried the kids in the same room/same bed?

No Cry might be worth reading again, i thought of new things to try reading it a second time when my LO was older.

good luck

[Smoke Jaguar]

You know, maybe you could take her to a play therapist? I was thinking that putting her in your bed is an effective and peaceful alternative and then I read the bit about your baby being due soon. Light bulb moment - she's still so young and will be quite aware that changes are afoot. Before you cut her loose to CIO on her own, please consider being extra compassionate to her needs and her adjustment, because this change (baby coming) is out of her control, not her choice and the last thing I can see as working is leaving her alone in her feelings. Just can't help but think she's processing change. 2yo is still very little and I don't know many who have adjusted smoothly and peacefully to having a sibling at this age. In fact, I don't know of any, personally. The key will be in how you help her transition.
JMO.

[kelebek]

I was also going to suggest is it possible that your DS and DD could share a bed/room? I know it's not an ideal long term solution but while they are still little it might work?

[treecyp]

We're going through a similar issue where DS has ben suffering from separation anxiety ever since DD was born 2 weeks ago...I think the fact that he woke up to find mum and dad gone (but his favourite uncle there when he woke up!) the morning of the birth really affected him.

Currently DH is sleeping on a trundle bed in DS' room but we're looking for solutions as well.

We've tried CIO but didn't work...once things settle down we might try one of the gentle withdrawal techniques - which I've seen on thesleepstore website.

Best of luck. Hope you find a breakthrough soon.

[Artechim]

I am too scared to try them in the same room - DS woke 4 times last night, I am worried they will just keep waking each other up and I will spend even longer with both of them screaming!

Mayaness, I am sure the impending baby has a lot to do with it. DS was a lot better but has been waking at least twice again lately. I have tried putting DD in our bed but once she is screaming she is really unreasonable and she just fought to get up again (I thought it was sure-fire since she co-slept until 18 months!). Believe me that shutting the door on her is really a very last resort thing. I hate it. I really, really hate it. I just have nothing else.

Treecyp, I hope you guys can get something sorted out soon xx. It is hard.

We have rearranged her room and have been spending time in there just hanging out on her bed reading books etc to hopefully make her happier to be in there.

[kelebek]

I think if it is possible to try and put them in the same room. you're not going to loose anything by it. If it works you can turn the other room into the toy room. My sister had her 2 boys share and they are 22 mnths apart and the other bedroom was a toy room. They are still sharing at 9 and 11 and sometimes sleep in the same bed if they are scared (they have bunk beds)

[Artechim]

Kelebek, I don't think the same room will work - DD often cries as she is going to sleep and now with the massive screaming fits when she wakes there is no way that DS could sleep through that. DS also wakes several times and has the odd tantrum and won't resettle which would just wake DD up (if she was actually asleep!).

I think we need some sort of professional help with regards to her sleep but I don't know where to go. I gave her phenergan for 5 nights to break the screaming cycle (advice from health nurse) but as soon as she was off it she is back to the same. I don't know what to do with her. DH got up at 2am to save a screaming fit, we thought maybe she would fall asleep in front of the telly but no, she stayed up for a couple of hours then had an overtired screaming meltdown for half an hour or so and finally went to sleep on the couch at about 5am.
DH has to work, he can't be getting up at 2am to deal with her every day. It also makes her a horrible kid to deal with during the day. I am not liking her much at the moment.