I just can't do this anymore

[courts&munchkins]

I have done everything I was supposed to with my kids. I have comforted them at every cry, I have cuddled them everytime they wanted to no matter how tired I was. I have let them sleep in our bed, I've slept on the floor of their bedroom, patted them to sleep, rocked them to sleep, fed them to sleep. I have never let them cry because for me it just felt unnatural. I honestly thought that being there for them I would help them grow into a peaceful sleeping routine. But I was wrong, I was very wrong. I have created 3 of the worst sleepers on the planet, or at least it feels that way. I don't really believe in controlled crying but what we are doing is not working. None of them have ever slept properly. We have only recently got master 4 sleeping in his own room, in his own bed. And that wasn't his choice, that was when I finally put my foot down because I had no energy left for him. Even then it is a fight to get him to bed and he is a restless sleeper. Master 2 will not sleep anywhere but our bed without screaming the house down. Even in our bed he wakes many times during the night. And little miss, well currently she is in a streak of waking every 20 minutes after last being settled, yep that's right, every 20 minutes. She will not settle without the boob, trying to settle her without it results in hyperventilating hysterical screaming. Because Master 2 will not sleep anywhere but our bed, not even a bed on the floor. I have a choice, get up to the baby every 20 minutes and let master 2 sleep in our bed or move master 2 out of our bed and put baby in it and then have master 2 screaming for hours on end. They do not sleep, they do not settle, they just wake constantly. DD also won't nap during the day unless in my arms so I don't even get a chance to rest then, not that my 4yo naps anymore anyway. I am lucky if I get 2hrs of broken sleep a night, every night. I mean I expect night waking, I expect night feeds, but I was kind of hoping with all my kids older than 6 months I should get at least 6 hours sleep a night, I would kill for 6 hours sleep a night.

I don't want to let them cry or resort to "sleep training" but I don't know what else to do. I am a complete wreck from years of no sleep. My hair is falling out, I have nose bleeds, headaches, I am constantly sick or injured and it takes me weeks to recover. I am zinc deficient, iron deficient, b vitamin deficient, pretty much everything deficient and its all because I am so run down. Please surely it's not supposed to be like this.

[*EJ*]

Not sure i can say anything of any worth that will make you feel better at the moment but i can't not say something

I'm in a little bit of a similar situation but can't really offer any advice because i too am looking for answers. For me my boys are not an issue, they exhaust me during the day but sleep well at night. It's my little miss that is the tricky one. I'm getting about 2-3, 5 if i'm lucky hours of sleep from her a night and majority of the time only a hour x 2 during the day. I'm screaming for more so i have no idea how you are coping... we just do i suppose

I've been to sleep school before and do not want to go down that road with DD but i need some guidance to get me where i want to be with her. I've just bought the no cry sleep solution and i'm trying to find the time to read that and possibly put a few things into place.

I suppose the purpose of my post isn't to give advice it's more so to offer support and hope that you'll get to where you want to be with your little ones soon.

Good luck xo

[Eenee]

Oh Hun that sounds tough going. I've only got one bad sleeper and I struggle enough with that, having 3 must be super tough. Wish I knew how to help. Just wanted to say you have done a great job so far and I don't believe you've created bad sleepers but more just lucked out with not getting good sleepers.

I keep trying to think of something that will help but I can't hopefully someone will have some advice.

[JLeigh29]

DS is an awesome sleeper. I think he was always going to be a pretty good sleeper, but I'd like to take a little credit for making a good sleeper into an awesome one! I know you've probably heard it before, but I found consistency is the key. You really need to stick with, and believe in, whatever method you choose. We decided DS wasn't going to co-sleep, and he never has (just our choice, no judgement for anyone else). The very few nights we've been up with him, we've spent on the lounge, or on the floor of his room. We decided we weren't going to do CC, though we also decided not to rush straight in and pick him up the moment he cries. From about 7-8 months, we decided we weren't going to pick him up every time we went in (my back just couldn't handle it). We'd give him a minute or so to see if he self-settled, and if he still needed us, we'd go in. We also got to know his cries/sounds and wouldn't go in for grizzling (I find DS needs to make a bit of a grizzle type sound before he goes to sleep, a kind of moan, and he still does quite often now. It's part of his settling routine). We'd cuddle him if he was really upset, or otherwise just pat him until he settled. Then we'd pat the mattress, the whole time saying 'shhhh' or something else repetitive and soothing. Gradually the patting would get slower, until it was no patting, just the 'shhhhh's. We started patting to sleep, then gradually left just before he was asleep, then a little earlier each time. It took a good few weeks, and we'd sometimes have to go back and resettle. Because he was going to sleep on his own, it meant he could go BACK to sleep on his own if he woke up in the night. I remember getting up in the night to go to him because he'd cried out, only to get to his room and he'd be fast asleep again! It's only been in the last couple of months that I've been able to stop myself getting up 'just to check' every time he makes a peep. Nowadays, he'll tell me when he's ready for bed, and points to the door, telling us to go after we've put him in his cot!
I'm not sure any of this advice will help - it's got to be something you're willing to invest in and be consistent with. The moment you give in and say 'oh it's easier if I just pick him up/put him in bed with me/feed to sleep etc', then you start again. And if it IS easier for you to do those things, then do them. For me, it wasn't easier, because I knew I'd be doing them multiple times a night, night after night, day after day and I didn't want that. I also had a friend whose 8 yo and 4 yo were still getting in bed with them after midnight most nights, and would wake up several times a night before midnight and the thought of that petrified me! Oh, and I'm a teacher, so the whole self-discipline thing (me being self-disciplined, not DS) isn't that hard. I know the motto 'Certainty, not severity' too so I just knew that DS needed to be certain the same thing would happen time after time after time. The last thing is that DH was always very supportive and consistent with what we did too and was always more than willing to share the load. That makes a huge difference.
I really feel for you. Sleep deprivation is HARD and x3 must be an absolute nightmare for you. I hope you find something that works for you soon. Look after yourself because without you, your LO's would be lost. Having you healthy and happy is what is best for them.

[MrsFabuloso]

Oh hun. I can hear your desperation in your words. I'm so sorry things are so tough for you right now. And unfortunately I also know how tough it can be. I'm sorry but I have no words of advice. I can only relate. My 3 kids have all been terrible sleepers too, they still aren't the best, though they are better. And I have done the same thing as you. Been gentle. Fed to sleep, patted to sleep, co slept. All to the snide comments and horrid remarks of family and friends, who say I told you so when I say I'm tired and worn out. Rarely an offer of help or taking the kids so I can rest. I also got to the point of being tempted by going to a sleep school and learning to do the cry it out techniques. I just needed a break, I needed sleep. But being where we are (we live in remote NSW), it kind of wasn't really an easy option to get there and would have cost a fair bit of money. So I just didn't ever do it.
DS2 was waking 1-2hrly, DS1 was waking 2-3 times a night for feeds. DD was wakign 1-2 times a night. I was getting up 8-11 times a night if DH was on a night shift. At least. And getting up at 5am with DS2 kills me too. I wasn't sleeping and had depression. So we changed things.
Now DH sleeps in the spare room with the bigger kids if they wake up. I co sleep with DS2 because he's still bfing 3-4 times a night. And I am lucky enough to say DS2's sleeping habbits have improved, he's no longer waking 1-2hrly. DS1 will wake to go into bed with DH, but then sleep through, some nights he even sleeps through the night in his own. DD is sleeping through some nights too, but will also go into DH if she wakes. Night shifts are still horrific for me, but managable because I know there is light at the end of the tunnel when DH is home.
I will regularly have a nap in the day and a sleep in of a morning. I often sleep til 9, sometimes 10am, or have 2-3hr naps because I am so exhausted. It's not ideal. I want to sleep with my hubby. I want to function through a day without having to nap and sleep most of the morning away. But we had to change something. I had to take care of me, so I could take care of them. My depression is better. I am functioning better and much happier through the day. A better mum. A better wife. Things are looking up for us. I am still parenting them gently, and I didn't have to go down the control crying route. Things are working ok for us, for now. We are taking it one step at a time. I long for the day I have my own bed to myself and my DH, when I feel more like me again. When I can wake up next to DH again, and not a little person snuffling at my breast, when my life isn't about how much sleep I've had. But for now, I am trying to see how special and lovely this time and is and also to remember how fleeting it really is, and being creative with making time and space for DH and I. And my mantra is 'this won't last forever'.

[courts&munchkins]

We have tried every gentle method under the sun. We did the slowly withdrawing from our eldest son's room. We would always get to the door and as soon as we went to take the night to step out of it, hyperventilating screams. We tried this for 6 months, over and over and over again. Always get to the door, the howls would begin. Consistency has never been our problem, my children just have a stubborness that goes far beyond mine. They have a good routine and all 3 children go to bed perfectly fine. It's about 2 hours after bed time that the fun begins. They wake through the night constantly and are so hard to settle each wake up. My 4yo now sleeps fairly well these days, it isn't perfect but its ok and it took us 4 years to get there. And trust me I have spent months sleeping on bedroom floors or in the kids beds trying to resettle them there, never made any difference. If I can manage to resettle them in their own bed they will wake within half an hour of being settled, again and again and again. Doesn't matter how many times, nights, months, we re-settle them in their own bed they will wake 50 times during the night, it never gets any less. My 2yo won't re-settle in his bed at all. You try lying in his bed with him and 4hrs later guaranteed he will still be awake. He won't go to sleep because he knows as soon as he does I will go back to my own bed. And he did this long before we even brought him into our bed. So we have done the same thing over and over for months and never seen any different. They always ended up in our bed after months of trying out of necessity. I have been pregnant twice since my first and I suffer from HG when pregnant, I also had glandular fever with my 2nd pregnancy so sometimes the thought of sleeping on the floor of my kids room another night, pregnant, vomiting and exhausted was too much to bear and they won. And now my daughter won't settle at all without my nipple in her mouth and her night wakings are increasing. And my kids don't wake up grizzling, I would leave them if they were. They wake up and within 30 seconds they are hyperventilating. No joke. They are the most stubbornest creatures on the planet.

[onthefly]

Oh m2boys, you've really got it rough. I'm sooooo lucky my boy got better before DD came along.
One practical suggestion - can your DS sleep with his dad, and you with the little miss? Or other way round - will she settle for her dad (and maybe not reach for the boob so much if you're out of range)?
Certainly, you can't be dealing with them all by yourself. You need a break too - even a few hours here or there makes a big difference. Since I was pregnant with DD, DS was daddy's responsibility, so if he wakes in the night, dad has to deal with it. I have DD. But even then I hand over to DH some nights (she does that 20 minute thing too sometimes!) for a few hours break. And then sometimes I get sleepins on the weekend too.
During the day, can you put a DVD on for the boys and lie down with your DD to nap together?

ETA - *some* babies like to sleep, they just need help. They'll grizzle and settle. Some kids are not like that - no routine, consistency or special method will change that unfortunately, only time. I really hope it's not too much longer for you m2boys.
Just as an aside, have you considered food sensitivities or anything like that?

[courts&munchkins]

Oh hun. I can hear your desperation in your words. I'm so sorry things are so tough for you right now. And unfortunately I also know how tough it can be. I'm sorry but I have no words of advice. I can only relate. My 3 kids have all been terrible sleepers too, they still aren't the best, though they are better. And I have done the same thing as you. Been gentle. Fed to sleep, patted to sleep, co slept. All to the snide comments and horrid remarks of family and friends, who say I told you so when I say I'm tired and worn out. Rarely an offer of help or taking the kids so I can rest. I also got to the point of being tempted by going to a sleep school and learning to do the cry it out techniques. I just needed a break, I needed sleep. But being where we are (we live in remote NSW), it kind of wasn't really an easy option to get there and would have cost a fair bit of money. So I just didn't do it.
DS2 was waking 1-2hrly, DS1 was waking 2-3 times a night. DD was wakign 1-2 times a night. I was getting up 8-11 times a night if DH was on a night shift. At least. And getting up at 5am with DS2 kills me too. I wasn't sleeping and had depression. So we changed things. Now DH sleeps in the spare room with the bigger kids if they wake up. I co sleep with DS2 because he's still bfing 3-4 times a night. And I am lucky enough to say DS2's sleeping habbits have improved, he's no longer waking 1-2hrly. DS1 will wake to go into bed with DH, but then sleep through, some nights he even sleeps through the night. DD is sleeping through some nights too, but will also go into DH if she wakes. Night shifts are still horrific for me, but managable because I know there is light at the end of the tunnel when DH is home. I will regularly have a nap and a sleep in of a morning. I often sleep til 9, sometimes 10am, or have 2-3hr naps because I am so exhausted. It's not ideal. I want to sleep with my hubby. But we had to change something. I had to take care of me, so I could take care of them. Things are looking up for us. I am still parenting them gently, and I didn't have to go down the control crying route. Things are working ok for us, for now. We are taking it one step at a time. I long for the day I have my own bed to myself and my DH. When I can't wake up next to him again, and not a little person snuffling at my breast. But for now, I am trying to see how special and lovely this time and is and also to remember how fleeting it really is. And my mantra is 'this won't last forever'.

My hubby won't help out at night shift at all. He flat out refuses, or he says he will but never does. He never has helped. Even after my c-sections when they were newborns I had to get up, change them, feed them, and do all the re-settling on my own. He also flat out refuses to sleep in any bed but his own. We don't have a spare bed of our own and the only available bed is my ds2's single bed which won't fit me, dd and ds2. Neither of the little ones will settle for their father, probably because he has never got up to them. It''s only me and that's why I am at breaking point, I am just exhausted.

[MrsFabuloso]

Maybe it's time to go to a sleep school and get some help from professionals? Your problems sound pretty horrendous

[lozzy_mac]

my heart goes out for you- you are doing an amazing job just surviving with so little sleep- be proud of yourself!
You've recognised its time to make a change and there is so much help out there, in no time I'm sure you'll be able to put things in place to improve the situation!

I have just finished reading Elizabeth Pantley's No cry sleep solution- and I tell you it was written exactly for your situation!!! If you can get it I would definitely recommend it!
I would also recommend sleep school, they dont make you do proper controlled crying but possibly a little more crying than you'd be happy with? but for so many people it is the turnaround point!

[onthefly]

My hubby won't help out at night shift at all. He flat out refuses, or he says he will but never does. He never has helped. Even after my c-sections when they were newborns I had to get up, change them, feed them, and do all the re-settling on my own. He also flat out refuses to sleep in any bed but his own. We don't have a spare bed of our own and the only available bed is my ds2's single bed which won't fit me, dd and ds2. Neither of the little ones will settle for their father, probably because he has never got up to them. It''s only me and that's why I am at breaking point, I am just exhausted.

Well see, in point of fact, this right here is your problem Sorry to hear that you are not being well supported at home. Any other family or friends that could help - even to get a nap during the day?

[courts&munchkins]

Oh m2boys, you've really got it rough. I'm sooooo lucky my boy got better before DD came along.
One practical suggestion - can your DS sleep with his dad, and you with the little miss? Or other way round - will she settle for her dad (and maybe not reach for the boob so much if you're out of range)?
Certainly, you can't be dealing with them all by yourself. You need a break too - even a few hours here or there makes a big difference. Since I was pregnant with DD, DS was daddy's responsibility, so if he wakes in the night, dad has to deal with it. I have DD. But even then I hand over to DH some nights (she does that 20 minute thing too sometimes!) for a few hours break. And then sometimes I get sleepins on the weekend too.
During the day, can you put a DVD on for the boys and lie down with your DD to nap together?

ETA - *some* babies like to sleep, they just need help. They'll grizzle and settle. Some kids are not like that - no routine, consistency or special method will change that unfortunately, only time. I really hope it's not too much longer for you m2boys.
Just as an aside, have you considered food sensitivities or anything like that?

Master 2 definetely has some food intolerances MadB. But as they seem to be super weird ones I am having a hard time narrowing them down. We are getting there slowly, super slowly. His sleeping has improved with the removal of some foods but not enough for me to be jumping up and down in joy yet. Because we live so rurally I am having a hard time getting help with his tummy issues but we have a paed's appt in the city in 2 weeks because he has a heart murmur so I am going to see if I can get into a naturopath then. DD I haven't noticed any food issues really, ds2's were so noticable. I think with dd I just got in the habit of feeding her to sleep at every noise and so now she doesn't really know how to settle without it. Ds1 had a lot of sleep apnea, his sleep improved a lot once he got his tonsils out, we finally made some headway there. He does sleep a lot better now, but can have restless nights plagued by night terrors sometimes.


I try and nap with dd as ds2 still has a day sleep and ds1 watches a movie. But dd isn't very co-operative. It is a massive battle to try and get her to sleep during the day. So far after the horrid night last night and then being up at 6am she has only slept for 40 minutes the entire day. I tried to lie down with her earlier and she just would not go to sleep. DH won't help at night time so I luck out there lol.

[onthefly]

Right, sounds like your boys have health issues that need addressing then. Are you able to get on to a dietician also? I really hope the paed can help you out. I have also heard of kids using CPAP machines if they have apnoea. Ah, but night terrors.... deary me.
What will she do if you lie her down next to you in bed? When DD is awake and cheery in the middle of the night, I just put some earplugs in and doze next to her. Won't work if she's hysterical of course.

You know you're doing a bloody brilliant job all on your own!

[courts&munchkins]

ds1's apnea is fine now he had his tonsils out. He had huge tonsils. I am hoping the night terrors are just a phase. dd sleeps ok in our bed at night, though generally she's hysterical unless attached to my boob, which is ok until my aversion kicks in and then the coping factor plummets. But she mostly sleeps ok in our bed. The issue is to let her sleep in our bed, ds2 has to be moved out of it because our bed is too small and I feel its a bit dangerous to have them both in there. But moving ds2 out creates a whole new can of worms. If that little monster would sleep on his own my life would be much easier.

Daytime naps I can't just lie down with dd unless she is willing to go to sleep because she has to be moving constantly. Whoever said boys were more mellow than girls were deluded, little miss needs to go go go and apparently for her, sleep is for the weak.

[YoYo]

I couldn't read and not post.

I'm so sorry this is happening and it's making you so exhausted. I'm also sorry, as madB said, you aren't being supported by your DH. He sounds like he needs a kick up the bum!

I can sympathise a little, my 4 yo has only just started sleeping in his bed, but gets up every night to climb into someone else's bed too. I find it hard to sort him out as I usually have DD hanging off my boob too.

I co sleep with dd and ds sneaks into bed with either my mum or DH. I don't remember the last time I was in my own bed with DH.

I've come down to bribing DS with Santa. I've said he won't come and visit him during Christmas (to put little treat in his advent calendar) if he doesn't think he's home. He tries really hard, but I suspect he has apnoea too, as his breathing is what seems to wake him. Could your DS2 have a breathing issue as well as intolerances?

I really hope something changes for you soon. You sound truly exhausted. X

[MrsFabuloso]

Could you get a double bed for you and the kids and put it into your DS2's room? Then you and the kids could sleep in there and your Dh could sleep in your bed. Ideally, I would be having a serious talk to your hubby and getting him to help out and sleep with the bigger kids and you can deal with baby. At least some of the time. He's part of the equation too. It's not fair for you to suffer all the time andhe gets to slack off.

[courts&munchkins]

Could you get a double bed for you and the kids and put it into your DS2's room? Then you and the kids could sleep in there and your Dh could sleep in your bed. Ideally, I would be having a serious talk to your hubby and getting him to help out and sleep with the bigger kids and you can deal with baby. At least some of the time. He's part of the equation too. It's not fair for you to suffer all the time andhe gets to slack off.

We had a double bed in our spare room, hubby keeps lending it to his parents when they have visitors so it's never here. Other wise I probably would. Oh and he won't get it off his parents because he doesn't want to put them out. I have had a conversation with him over and over again. Same thing always happens, he promises to help and then the night happens, kid cries, I wait, he doesn't move, kid cries, I wait a little longer, he still doesn't move. So I get up and yell at him and he always says "I was getting up." he'll just let them cry and if he does get up, he gets all angry and frustrated and yells at them and is too rough with them. It's easier if I just do it. I am going to see f I can sidecar dd's cot with out bed. Our bed is a frame not a ensemble so I'm worried about a gap but I'll see if maybe I can make it work.

[willow5]

You poor thing! I have 1 bad sleeper and that it nearly killing me I don't know how you're doing it, I guess you do what you've gotta do. I would be seriously p***** with the lack of support from your DH. I sleep in DS's room. We have 2 single foam mattresses on the floor, so through the day I can put them on top of each other and it looks like a normal bed (that's if I can be bothered) Could you do something similar? 2 singles are bigger than a queen so there would be quite a bit of room for 3 or 4 if needed. Being mattresses on the floor there isn't far to fall either. DS is such a restless sleeper he ends up all over the place, so I don't have to constantly worried about him falling out. DS won't settle for DP so there's no point him trying any more because if you don't settle him quickly he'll be up for ages at each waking. But if he could help he would. The boob is the only way most of the time.
We have just started taking food additives out of his diet and have seen an improvement. It took about a week but his waking have now gone from between 5-8 or more on bad nights. To a fairly steady 2-4.
I hope you get some sleep soon