TTC AFTER Late Loss/Recurrent Miscarriage/ Stillbirth 2010

[dory]

Hope - you are most welcome. In a way for me, when I help someone it's as if the legacy of my angels lives on and that I honour them in doing so. For me in my journey, I have no answers, and a lot of possibilities crossed off the list! So it's good that nothing is "wrong" but it also means there is nothing to "fix". Just a wing and a prayer for me.... until I find something else to chase down a rabbit hole.

We each have to find our own way, and that also includes finding a way to navigate the plethora of information out there and whether and how it relates to our own circumstances. It takes courage to research and find information and then ask questions of your Dr's. It doesn't mean you respect them any less, just means you are trying to inform yourself and find your way through. Talking about books, I also read " Is your body baby friendly" by Dr A Beer. Mostly about reproductive immunology. I am going to try and hunt down the book that Chris suggested. I am sure it was clexane because I remember asking why not heparin or asprin and hadn't really heard of it being used in pregnancy either. Wish I could remember better.

How did you BT's come back?

Chris - welcome. I agree with you totally. Each of your babies was unique and deserving of your love and grief. I am also coming to believe that for most people, there is no such thing as a replacement baby. It mght apply in circumstances where there is diagnosed or undiagnosed mental illness, such that cognition and perceptions are distorted. It might have been a hot topic for the social science for a while, but it doesn't seem to feature that prominently in the literature anymore from what I see when I scan through it. It seems though "pop psychologists" ie every day people, have picked it up and run with it. They just don't realise how demeaning the concept is.

People, whilst well intentioned, can just be so insightless and insensitive at times. But I was probably once one of those fortunate insightless ones. It takes a very special person who hasn't experienced loss of a baby to have an inkling of what its like. It's why groups like BB, in my mind are so important. The women here are so wise, hard earnt sadly, and understanding. I hope you find the support you need during your stay here - hopefully it's a short one. ( We can all but hope and dream huh?)

Your journey sounds harrowing. Whilst I think "advanced maternal age" can be a factor, I think it is also used as an excuse not to pursue other investigations, I suppose as you have found out. A friend of mine has had both of her babies now aged 3 and 1 and at least one of her miscarriages over the age of 40. I was seeing a gyno/ob/FS who used to quite often raise "advancing maternal age" with me, even when I was in my late 20's!. I understand why, but it used to bug me. My current ob/fs has never once raised it. Wise man this new ob.

Glad you found a reproductive endocrinologist to help you out. The field of reproductive immunology is controversial to say the least! But at least there is some "acceptance" of it, even if as a last resort. I am going to read that book you suggested. Thanks.

I know this is left field, but if you bruise easily, have you thought about having your platelet level tested? It can contribute to bruising easily, if low apparently. I do know what you mean about being hesitant about asprin.

Anyway, I had best better go. I have promised myself ( well cajouled mainly) to venture to the "outside" today. I am going to treat myself to a hot drink. I know I promised myself I would do it on Monday, and every day since.... but today I know I can do it!

Oh some other left field news from me - yesterday I decided to take the plunge and call Adoption Services. I have been thinking about it for a while and have "almost called a few times" this past 2 or 3 weeks. Anyway, I did yesterday. Of course the person wasn't available and I then got cold feet, really worried about what I had done. Anyway, she called back today. I need to fill out an application form and send it back. After that it might take 22 ( YES 22!!) weeks for them to get back to me. In their defence I suppose they do have to check records and get records from archives and then pour over them. Anyway, what I am really interested in is, not my biological family, but my care from the time I was born 9 weeks prem to when I was adopted 3 months later. I would have been in NICU and had a host of nurses and doctors caring for me, and then I was transferred to a home for babies. I have been to the home, but it was inadvertent. I went there for a conference for work (it's not a home for wards of the state anymore obviously) and ended up getting trapped in the toilet for about 20 mins.... LOL, me and toilets. It's weird to think that people who had so much to do with my survival for the first 3 months of my life on the outside are complete strangers to me. I suppose I realise now just how lucky I am to have had the care I did at that time. When I spoke about getting cold feet? I panicked thinking that maybe my biol family had put in a request for contact..... and I hadn't considered that. Still haven't really but at least now I can think about it and prepare, if it's there.

Anyway giddy up girls, I am off for a hot drink!

[ChrisW]

Dory – Thanks so much for the welcome and your support. It’s good to know that people really are having children past 40. DH and I were prepared for the probability that it would take us longer to conceive because of our age, but we never once thought about miscarriage until it began happening. Strangely enough, the only year we didn’t conceive since starting our journey was the year we sought ‘medical assistance’ (clomid and IVF). Go figure...

I am interested in the Beer book you mentioned. I read several of his articles online and checked out his website. I’ll have to make sure I read it before the ‘traditional’ test results come back so I’ll be prepared to talk to the RE if they come back ‘normal’. Also, good point about the low platelets. I never really thought about what might be causing my extreme bruising. I’ll mention it to the RE when I see him next.

Good luck with your information search (here’s hoping you find only what you’re looking for). I also hope you got out the other day for that hot drink! I had to laugh when I read that initially - we are sweltering here in Raleigh. I think we skipped spring and shot straight into summer. Had to remind myself that you’re moving on towards winter where you are.

Hope everyone else is doing well!

[dory]

Chris - funny you should mention that (a) the impact of medical intervention and (b) hot drinks. My GF has had the least amount of success in her tcc journey with clomid, IVF. Her 2 pregnancies have been spontaneous. Poor blossom hasn't had a BFP for 2 years. Not sure where she's at in her head space at the moment re more IVF etc. She also told me about teh condition she has chronic adrenal hyperplasia (CAH). I am yet to hear how her followup appointment went, but am waiting with baited breath and just praying that for her there is a plan that will give some hope. About the hot drinks - I drink them in any weather, cold or hot. They have long been my treat to myself. I am off the caffeine at the moment though, and boy do I miss it. My DH told me this morning he didn't know how I drank my drinks so hot, because when he tried, he scalded his mouth and it hurrt For sunny Queensland, Aust, it has been quite cool overnight. Got to 7 celcius (about 44 farenheight) - I suppose it might be warmer in the house if we actually shut some windows and turned on a heater ( no central heating here).... I remember being in Detroit when it was snowing, and wanting to have the windows open. We tried but they were painted shut! LOL. Crazy Queenslander thing, or maybe it's just us. I didn't realise you were from Raleigh NC, and when I did, I just imagined that lovely accent. Hope it's not too hot for you today.

cTenibear - how are you doing? You've been quiet-ish for you. Hope that means you are feeling strong and postive and not in need of as much support or company at the mo.

SuSie Q- thinking of you

Chez - thinking of you too. We took my aunt "Big Chez" out of dinner on the weekend to Japanese. She was a bit outside her comfort zone but I think she might go again. She seemed to really like the look of the Shabu Shabu banquet ( is that the one where you cook your own at the table in a hot pot?)

Aries, Angelic and Hope - thinking of you. Hoping you're doing ok.

Sending lots of love to the divine "C" escapees - cmeggles, Charli and Crumpet.

Sending Gigi my love.

And sending lots of love and "sleep" to the women who give us hope - Beata.

Sorry if I have missed anyone.

[angelicdragon]

Chris, just to give you hope I have had 2 children past the age of 40. Mind you I have had 8 miscarriages between the two of them and then another 1 since. I am now 46 and still hopeful of just one more sticky baby. I have had every m/c test they could think of and a lap/hysteroscopy/HSG and everything came back clear. I treid clomid 2 yrs ago and it did nothing. So we went back to TTC au naturel.

Hope, welcome to the group and I hope you find support and information here as well.

Can't stay.. DS5 is upsetting DS1.
hugs all
Jude

[Chez67]

Hi ladies

Hope and ChrisW - welcome to our thread. I am sorry for your losses. No matter what the time, any loss is hard. I have found the most supportive group of ladies in this thread and hope you find the same experience.

Hi to Aries, SuzieQ, angelic, blessed, samcougar and everyone else.

Well I dearly wanted to post that I was #4 of the Cs but AF arrived on Thursday morning. The day after we had seen the FS so it was off to the clinic for a b/t for me for Day 1. It did catch me a bit by surprise and was thinking I would have another 5 to 7 days before AF would arrive (and secretly I was hoping that we were pg anyway).

The FS was enthusiastic about doing some monitored/supported natural cycles before moving onto IVF. Last time we saw her - 2 years ago - there was no discussion about that as an option. It seems Ryan's pg has at least given her some hope that we can fall pg naturally as well. I was relieved as I wasn't prepared mentally to start with the injections although it looks like I will be doing some progesterone support post O with these monitored cycles. I had a really bad headache on Day 1 and day 2, bordering on migraine like because of nausea. It's still hanging around today but not as bad. I think this is oestrogen withdrawal as I used to get it occasionally when I was on the pill, but usually from about day 3 or 4. Along with that I have had a huge emotional reaction to going back to the FS that has caught me by surprise. I feel a bit like we have gone backwards and really have very little hope that we can fall pg using IVF but I also know the stats show that we have 2 to 3 times better odds of an IVF conception than natural. Anyway, I am going to move forward as this is what we decided we are going to do. The difference this time around I keep telling myself is that the FS is going to be working with my TCM therapist so we will have a collaborative approach - hopefully the best of eastern and western medicine.

Anyway, that's enough rambling from me. I hope everybody is well. Sending everyone lots of

oxo

[Gigi1]

Cheryl, Sorry AF arrived hun.
Hope the FS's new attitude and change in circumstance due to Ryan's existance is all that is needed hun. Good Luck and thinking of you xoxo

Still lurking everyone. love to all, new and oldies!

[TeniBear]

Yes, sorry, I am still around Thanks for thinking of me

Well, if I'm on a normal cycle this time around, I should be Oing in the next couple of days. I'm sneakily getting DH to DTD with me Surprised him the other night when he got home - candles all up the hallway leading to the bedroom where I was waiting... Need I say more?

Had my hospital appointment the other day. The doctor pretty much told me what I heard from here anyway - the "low grade changes" on my pap smear mean I need to go have another in a year. I didn't even bring up the fact that I'm TTC and might be pregnant then, she did! She said if I'm about 7 months pg, they can still do the smear (didn't know that, but okay!) and if they think it might be too dangerous for bubs, they can wait til I'm ready Also, I'm having an ultrasound on the 17th to check for PCOS, because I mentioned that I have very irregular periods. I'm looking at that as a good thing. If I have PCOS, then it can be treated and they'll look after me (hopefully), and if I don't have it, then it's ruled out.

You know, I don't usually talk this much about myself in real life

[CharlieB]

Hi everyone ,

Hope you're all enjoying the weekend.

Welcome to Hope and ChrisW, I'm so sorry that you find yourself here but I hope your stay is a short one. I'm sure like I did you will find some wonderful support in here.

Chez - sorry that AF turned up. The collaborative approach sounds like a good idea, I really hope you can have some luck with a natural cycle

cTenibear - sounds like its all happening at your house!! I really hope this is the cycle for you guys!

SusieQ - glad to hear that you are offically back on the TTC train, hope it's a short journey for you!

Big hello to samcougar, angelic, Aries, blessed, Gigi, crumpet, cmeglles dory and any one else lurking about!!

XX

[angelicdragon]

Cheryl I am sorry to hear AF showed up. It is a positive step forward though with the FS. Hopefully with that little bit of added help it may be just enough to push you past the goal post. None of us like to face the thought of needing that help but if it helps meet the goal then go for it. By the time we sought help I was considered too old by our clinic guidelines in Hobart. They stop at your 44th birthday .

Teni that does sound so romantic. I had a friend on another board many years ago who had a DH going thru the same thing so one night she did the same only she used rose petals as a trail and candles in the bedroom. It resulted in Kai who is now 4 years old. He was born a few months after Samuel. The day I found out I was pregnant with Samuel she had baby Skylar delivered at 21 weeks and too early to survive so Kai was her blessing from above.
On the subject of pap smears. If you had the smear soon after delivery then the changes could just be normal due to healing after the birth. I had that after Tash and Nic being so close together. I was told they could take 10 years to change into anything worth doing anything about. But 2 years later I had a routine pap smear and it came back as needing to be checked in 3 months time. I was phoned after the 3 months with that news as they didd't tell me at the time so I wouldn't worry for 3 months. So I had the repeat and it came back as CIN I in just 3 months. I saw my OB who did a colposcopy the following week. He had me in theatre a week later for a LLETZ and that came back as CIN II so talk about fast changing!! So I now tell women not to ignore pap mears. They can change in less than 10 years.
The result of mine was.. hemorrhage 10 days later and more surgery and half my cervix removed. I was told if I fell pg again I would either need a cervical stitch to hold the pg or i would need a c sec as it wouldn't give. I am in the half way group lol. Annabelle I had a C sec due to non-progression over 3cms but she was so tangled in her cord she never would have come out vaginally anyhow. Samuel and Daniel were both VBAC but I would stick at 3cms then the OB had to stretch the scar tissue to get it past that. Labour is always very quick after that.
So that's my story.
oh and from what I have been told by Drs here there s no point in pap smears when you are pg because of course it will show abnormal cells to normal as there are many changes taking place during pg.

AFM I think due t the O pains I had 12 hrs apart that I O'd from each side. The nausea and tiredness is high gather due to 2 corpus luteums (one on each side) but I gather neither of the old eggs was good coz at 10 dpo when I have been pg I have had light lines on Forelife extra and this time just nothing. Clear stark white. With al lthe BD we had our bases covered so to speak so must just be my old eggs. Very nice loking chart though

[blessedatlast]

Hi All,

I am still stalking you all! Sorry to the newcomers that find themselves here Congratulations to those who get out of here lol and hello to Everyone else

I am doing ok, what more can I say? It is really hard though knowing this month there is NO CHANCE of a pregnancy!! AF came the other day. Of course she did, If she didn't then that definitely would have been immaculate conception! lol. My cycles are still relatively regular, (32-33 days) even though I have gone off the herbs.. I think I had mid cycle spotting last month due to stress.. Stress does awful things. Anyway, now I am off the TTC path I have been drinking and not feeling guilty! Don't worry though, I am still looking after myself.. Got exams for the next 3wks running so I am trying to stay healthy and focussed! I can't believe I am almost through my 1st semester! Time goes so fast! Anyway, enough drunken ramblings from me (No I'm not drunk, I am only on my 1st red wine ) for those who are UTD and for everyone else

Also Dory, a special note for you - Thank you so much for all the beautiful complimenting and encouraging comments on my blog.. They are much appreciated

[ChrisW]

Thanks for the welcome everyone!

Dory – my DH is right there with you about sleeping with the windows open, although I have to put my foot down when the temp drops below 60°F. I’m a wimp when it comes to the cold!

Angelic – thanks for the welcome and the encouragement. I’m really starting to think there may still be some hope for us, although it’s difficult without having had a full-term pregnancy and an earthside bubs. I’m also preparing myself for the possibility that the docs won’t be able to find anything specific, but at least they’re looking now (as opposed to pointing out the obvious about my age).

Chez – sorry about your AF arriving along with your migraines. Sending lots of babydust and luck your way for this next cycle!

AFM – HPT tomorrow (AF due Wednesday). Trying not to imagine everything as a pregnancy symptom!

Hugs to everyone!

[Gigi1]

Chris, Welcome and so sorry that you have had so much heart ache.
I have been lurking so not in here so much lately. Just wanted to drop in and wish you hope and luck for tomorrow. xoxoxo

[TeniBear]

Grrr silly DH has turned me down the past three nights because he's tired... I'm fairly certain I'm Oing right now He better give me something tonight, and tomorrow... Or I'll have to knock him out and do it myself

[Gigi1]

Grrr silly DH has turned me down the past three nights because he's tired... I'm fairly certain I'm Oing right now He better give me something tonight, and tomorrow... Or I'll have to knock him out and do it myself

Sounds like one must be more enticing!
Good Luck!

[Samcougar]

Hello Lovely ladies.

Chez, I'm sorry AF arrived. I'm glad to hear that the FS has changed her attitude and wants to try other options. I really hope it works for you, Goodluck hun.

ChrisW, Hello and welcome, i'm so sorry you have found yourself here. I have my fingers crossed for a BFP for you today. I know it's hard not to second guess every niggle, pain and off feeling you get at the end of the tww. Goodluck hun i'll be thinking of you today.

Hope, Hello and welcome too. I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope your stay here is a short one.

Tenibear,

Grrr silly DH has turned me down the past three nights because he's tired... I'm fairly certain I'm Oing right now He better give me something tonight, and tomorrow... Or I'll have to knock him out and do it myself

I think he better change his mind rather quickly

A Big hello to everyone else i missed. I hope you are all well.

AFM no news on the ttc front. but in other news, I convinced DH that after spying a mouse in the house, we needed a cat. He agreed so we drove to Port Macquarie (about 1 hr away) and got one from the RSPCA shelter there. It's nice to have him cuddle up next to me and keep me company while DH is away.Our two dogs are too big to come inside and would be like a bull in a china shop if they did get in. Anyway i hope you all have a lovely day

[angelicdragon]

I have 2 lines... for how long is anyones guess but they are getting darker each day.. I am I think 13dpo or 12 dpo. With my history though I am not sure what to think until I get to about 13 wks and still have a heartbeat.

[dory]

Angelic - wow girl! You have my wholehearted CONGRATULATIONS. My theory is to take the good whilst we can and when we have it!

I know it's hard to get excited with your journey being so hard and heartbreaking up to this date. Hoping this is the turnaround BFP for you. Hoping this bub is well and truly sticky... Sending you all my love and strength. You can do it. Lots of positive belly rubs..... you know when I first read your post, I thought you meant OPK's lines... LOL. I am really really happy for you and have to say I have a good feeling today.

Chez - bugger ole AF.

Sam - I am loving the addition of a feline fur baby to your household! What did you call your little cat warmer? Winter is the best time for cats - they are so snuggly, if only because they want to use us as heaters.

Teni - Oh sweetie. Is it usual for SD ( Scotty Duck) to be turning you down? I know he's having his own internal struggles at the moment based on what you've posted previously. I know on the rare occassions I have been turned down, it's usually for a pretty good reason, like illness or tiredness. It's always been a big shock to the system to get turned down as my DH always seems to be keen.... I don't know how to help.... I suppose the candles leading up to a luscious you didn't do the trick? What about a racy stint in the great outdoors? Just be careful, don't want you guys getting caught for lewd behaviour... or caught on some cctv and uploaded to utube or something. That would be a real downer.

Chris W - how are you doing?

Hope - you've been quiet since your post - are you ok? How are you doing. Sending you some cyber hugs.

Aries - wotcha up to?

The big news for me today, is yesterday I taught myself how to cast off and cast on in knitting. I did have DH read the instructions just to make sure I was on the right track... can't believe he sat down with me and genuinely read a knitting book. I wonder what my pay back will be? My next goal is to do a particular stitch. I have tried it but really muffed it up. Will just have to keep trying. I think I know what I am doing wrong - just have to see. I know it doesn't sound like much, but it represents something I have achieved for myself. Apart from that, have been feeling a bit glum because I can't otherwise do too much for myself or around the house. Have a few strategies to get myself over the hump. Will see how they pan out.

Blessed - you're welcome.... I wanted you to know we were still thought of and loved, even if you weren't posting. No fairweather friends here girl. Same for you Gigi. It always lights up my day when I see your green coloured font on a post.

[CharlieB]

Angelic - Congratulations that is wonderful!! I hope the little bean is a sticky one