Atheism/Agnosticism General Discussion #1

[Aimz]

This is a thread where I assume I can express my beliefs without offending anyone as it is a thread for people who do not believe in god or any particular god. So I will not apologise for expressing my beliefs and I shouldn't have to worry about offending. Am I right?

And for the record, my references stating that heaven is not worth being moral for is MY OPINION and my belief system as I do not believe that there is heaven and I find it a much better use of my time being moral because it is simply the right thing to do. I in no way singled out any one person so please don't feel like I did. If I wanted to express my views to a particular religious group on this subject and put myself out there then I would gate crash that thread - which I have absolutely no intention of doing as I have mentioned that I deeply respect ALL religions, their core values and the people that follow those beliefs. I am simply expressing my own.

This thread should not be a debate about whether one person is right or wrong.

[paradise lost]

See Bath i don't have a God that challenges, i challenge myself. It is ME who expects better of me, and when life throws it's numerous challenges it is ME i hold responsible for how they come out and MY OWN good i work hard at resolving them for.

SJ i did not choose my belief it is just how i am. I do not see evidence of God, but i know if i believed i would only need to open my eyes to see evidence as if one believes in God then mere reality is rich proof enough that He exists. I was not Christened and was encouraged to explore/find my own spirituality. I would say that though i find things to admire in all the major religions i know about, i probably identify most with buddhism. I have "tried out" as a child Catholicism, CofE, CofS, Islam and Judaism. None fit or rang true to enough convince me.

Religion is interesting to me, but i can't say i believe in it. Do i pray? Absolutely, if someone who is a follower of a religion asks me to, i pray for them, i appeal to their god on their behalf. If their God exists He will see what is in my heart and know it is love and not a double standard which drives me, and if He does not exist i am doing no-one any harm.

I pretty much see God in a black and white way. Either he exists or he doesn't. I might not believe in cars, but that doesn't protect me if i walk casually into the road. I try to do what i know is right because i know i should, many many people religious or not live that way, and i don't delineate. I am deeply religious in my actions, i just don't aim my gratitude or wonder or love at a God.

Hope that makes sense.

Bx

[Heaven]

Makes perfect sense.

Do i pray? Absolutely, if someone who is a follower of a religion asks me to, i pray for them, i appeal to their god on their behalf. If their God exists He will see what is in my heart and know it is love and not a double standard which drives me, and if He does not exist i am doing no-one any harm.

I think that's really nice

[Rouge]

Can I please ask that this thread remain for the purpose it was created. And that is for agnostics/athiests to discuss their belief system. There are other threads created where those who have different beliefs can discuss their faith, but please refrain from doing so here. Yes, all are welcome here but this forum is not for debates, nor are any of the other spirituality & religion threads. If anyone wishes to discuss this further you can contact me personally. But any further posts regarding this matter will be removed.

[Aimz]

... i don't have a God that challenges, i challenge myself. It is ME who expects better of me, and when life throws it's numerous challenges it is ME i hold responsible for how they come out and MY OWN good i work hard at resolving them for.

I completely agree Hoobley - this reinforces my point of humanity taking credit/responsibility for our own actions without thanking/blaming a particular entity for it.

I am with Niliac in that I wouldn't enter a forum on christianity or hinduism and state my belief system and then ask these members why they believe in god - sparking a debate on religion. I respect others belief systems and I would like my beliefs to also be respected - not questioned or judged - but openly discussed by people who share similar beliefs.

[echidna]

Hello. I am non-religious. I was told to go here to talk about it.

[suse]

What do you want to talk about echidna?

ETA: Just reading back on earlier posts in the thread, and a few people have questioned the difference between agnosticism and atheism. This is not intended to challenge anybody's personal interpretation of the concept of agnosticism, as there are accepted interpretations that do deviate from the original meaning of the term. But I thought I'd throw in a bit of the history and provenance of the concept of agnosticism for anyone interested.

Agnosticism literally means 'without knowledge' (from 'gnosis' - to know). It is a philosophical stance whereby the holder acknowledges that the reason for, or source of existence is unprovable. The concept was originally developed in the 19th century by TH Huxley, who defined it as being "...wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism." Agnosticism is an intellectual concept; its core tenet is a rejection of the unprovable. It is not that an agnostic is open to the possibility of existence of a higher being, but that it cannot be proven.

Atheism, on the other hand, is either non-belief in a higher power (known as 'weak' atheism) or denial of the existence of a higher power (known as 'strong' atheism).

[echidna]

I'm not sure what I want to talk about. Perhaps, as non-religious people, do you feel offended when someone of faith tells you how great their faith is and offeres to pray for you?

[suse]

Personally, no I don't feel offended, I actually feel honoured that somebody would do that. Just because I don't have faith, doesn't mean that it is any less valid to those who do.

It depends on how it is intended though. If the person respects that I hold a different belief and does not see me as a lesser person for not having faith, then it can be quite a beautiful thing to know that they are extending their faith to me in the form of prayer, which I understand to be a very deep and personal expression of a person's relationship with God.