Satanism question

[Lulu]

OK, DD has decided she is a Satanist . She didn't want to get off the pc last night as she was "researching my religion." Bleuurk.

Background - I had a Catholic education myself, don't follow a particular religion, but lean towards Wicca. I gave Belle a rundown on the heart of what I knew about other religions/beliefs a few years ago and she was quite happy to follow the Native Indian "commandments".
So now this - look I'm probably a crap mother because the poor kid has not much to rebel against. I like her music, don't mind she has declared herself an Emo, and I quite like her clothing style. This more than likely has to do with this boyfriend of hers. He is doing this whole "rebel without a cause" and "no one really understands me" stuff and she is getting a bit sucked in. I have not objected too hard to his presence in her life (for fear of sending her straight to him), however I refused to let him chat to her on MSN until he removed the swastika from his icon thingy.

So - I should probably have a chat to her - but she fully WANTS me to argue with her so she can feel all misunderstood.
I'm not in fear for her immortal soul or anything but I was just wondering what you would do?

WTF does a satanist do anyway? Light black candles and wear a hood??
Do I have a right to poo-poo it?

I'd love to hear your views - hey I'm keeping this light OK!?

[Rouge]

LMAO!!!!

Ok I am laughing quite a bit

If she's trying to follow satanism because its "evil" she's in for a shock. True satanism isn't actually evil as such, that definition is often used by people who don't actually understand it. To be a satanist doesn't necessarily mean you worship the devil either (another misconception). So I would say to her, if she wanted to be a satanist to explain to you what that means Sounds like a rebellious teen to me LOL!

And not to be horrible but it sounds like this boyfriend just like stuff for pure shock value.

It sounds like goth's I knew way back when, they lived happy lives and had nothing to complain about so they would seek out chaos so they could have something to be depressed about. Why not get her into politics, or animal rights, if she wants to fight something at least she could be using her energy for good LOL!

[Heaven]

Hmm...well maybe you could talk to her about what she actually thinks Satanism is? And explain to her that religion is something that is supposed to enhance your life. How can worshipping evil enhance your life and make you a better person? Maybe explaining it that way would make sense and saying that you only want what's best for her and want her to find a 'religion' (if she wants to) that makes her feel good and loving and compassionate and not morbid and hateful!!
Does that make sense?
I really have no idea coz I don't know what Satanism is even!! lol, but it doesn't sound good!

[Rouge]

FYI Satanism is a religion. And it is not based on worshipping the Christian idea of Beelzebub. True satanism has more to do with Mythological/Pagan religions and has nothing to do with Christian "evil". Just wanted to make that clear.

[Indadhanu]

I was always under the impression that satanism is a VERY old religion, and was established before 'satan' was even recognised as the devil or evil by Christians... it has more to do with embracing and following your animalistic instincts rather than fearing them (most of which are classified as sins in Christianity, so are generally 'feared' in a way I guess). I also though that they got the evil, devil 'satan' from 'satanism' and not 'satanism' derived from worshipping satan the devil... if that makes sense?

This is just what I thought. So if she is doing it to shock you or think she is some sort of devil worshipper, she is mistaken lol. You might need to find some credible websites which explain this (as I imagine she is going onto somewhat cult-ish websites detailing how to worship the devil).

ETA: Just found this... Now, I don't have the urge to get up and follow Satanism, but it doesn't seem as black and evil when you read through stuff like this........ this is from the website religioustolerance.org

The beliefs, practices and rituals of the Church of Satan have few, if any, points of similarity with the Christian or Muslim concept of Satan. The CoS' Satan is pre-Christian, and derived from the Pagan image of power, virility, sexuality and sensuality. Satan is viewed as a force of nature, not a living quasi-deity. Their Satan has nothing to do with Hell, demons, pitchforks, sadistic torture, demonic possession, and profound evil. There are references in LaVey' writings to having conducted a few Black Masses for publicity purposes, in which the Roman Catholic Mass was ridiculed. But, it is unknown whether these references were satirical or reflected actual rituals. Assuming that the black masses were fictional, all of their rituals have no connection to those of Christianity or of any other religion.

Some of their beliefs and practices are:

They do not worship a living deity.
Major emphasis is placed on the power and authority of the individual Satanist, rather than on a god or goddess.
They believe that "no redeemer liveth" - that each person is their own redeemer, fully responsible for the direction of their own life.
"Satanism respects and exalts life. Children and animals are the purest expressions of that life force, and as such are held sacred and precious..." 2

The nine Satanic statements. These form the core of the Church of Satan beliefs. They were written by Anton LaVey.
In abridged form, they state that Satan represents:
Indulgence, not abstinence.
Vital existence, not spiritual pipe dreams.
Undefiled wisdom, not hypocritical self-deceit.
Kindness to those deserving of it, not love wasted on ingrates.
Vengeance, not turning the other cheek.
Responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires.
Man as just another animal - the most vicious of all.
Gratification of all ones desires.
The best friend that the Christian Church has had as he has kept it in business for centuries.

The nine Satanic sins are: Stupidity, pretentiousness, solipsism, self-deceit, herd conformity, lack of perspective, forgetfulness of past orthodoxies, counterproductive pride, and lack of aesthetics. 7

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth are: These are 11 rules of behavior written by Anton LaVey in 1967. 16 They include rules governing conversations, behavior towards guests, avoiding theft, acknowledging the power of magic, avoiding harm to children, refraining from killing animals, and behavior towards others.

Theology of the CoS:
People have created Gods in many forms; pick one that might be useful to you.
Heaven and Hell do not exist.
Satan is not closely related to the modern (post 1400 AD) concept of the Christian devil. Satanists view Satan as a pre-Christian life principle which represents the carnal, earthly, and mundane aspects of life.
Satan is not a being, a living entity; he is a force of nature.
Human life is held in sacred regard. Children in particular are not to be harmed.
"Satan...represents love, kindness and respect to those who deserve it."
Black Masses (parodies of the Roman Catholic religious service) are not normally performed by Satanists (except on rare occasions for their entertainment or publicity value).

[Heaven]

FYI Satanism is a religion. And it is not based on worshipping the Christian idea of Beelzebub. True satanism has more to do with Mythological/Pagan religions and has nothing to do with Christian "evil". Just wanted to make that clear.

Yeah, I didn't actually know what it was I was just assuming. But I did get the impression from the original post that Lulu's daughter was doing it as some kind of 'bad' thing to rebel or shock iykwim??

[Rouge]

Nah its cool I just wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page And I didn't mean anything I said as a slight against christianity either

[paradise lost]

You could talk to her about how it was really great that she's taking an interest in worshipping Lucifer, who used to be the Head Angel until he Fell From Grace, and that it's great that he's researched by some people because he can be quite misunderstood, just like teenagers....hey, is that why mainly teenagers are interested? LMAO! Sorry, not very serious but i went through a witchcraft phase (i'm not being offensive, i know it is a religion for some, for me it was a phase), a buddhist phase, a christian phase. If you don't try on different hats you never find the one which fits.

It is UTTERLY HILARIOUS that she is having to research a religion she has already decided she belongs to. ROFLMAO!!!

Bx

[Kazbah]

I don't know how to say this but here goes ... Perhaps it would be worth keeping an eye on her emotional states than the religion etc she's researching? You sound like a really cool mum, that I wish I had. But what about the b/f's emotional states?

Also maybe find out why the b/f chose a swastika for his icon - does he understand the christian background behind it?

[Indadhanu]

Oh, I completely forgot..... I was meaning to write it... Kazbah thanks for reminding me... a symbol like the swastika is also seen on the Buddha... called "The seal on the Buddha's Heart" symbolising purity, fertility, abundance, prosperity and long life. ... at a different angle than the Nazi swastika. Interesting to know.

[totalfrog]

It is UTTERLY HILARIOUS that she is having to research a religion she has already decided she belongs to. ROFLMAO!!!

I thought that was kinda funny too . Ahhh to be 15 again - I remember when I announced to my very strict Catholic father that I was going to be a buddhist and therefore couldn't go to mass anymore. About a month later I think I had forgotten all about it (and the boy that inspired the announcement )

[Lulu]

CAn you imagine my reaction sshheeesh! I was trying not to laugh my ass off and I think my eyes got stuck in the top of my head. I was down the other end of the lounge room so she didn't see (I'm not that terrible!).
I knew it was coming - she left a copy of The Satanic Verse in her room for me to see (**cringe -the poor little bugger, I don't even know where to start with THAT). She already gave me the rundown about the Buddist cross etc (the air of superiority was nauseating), but I pointed out this was true, but the image had been corrupted my an evil person and that particular image was representative of the Nazi party and all it stood for, and anyone that "used" it was a total ****head and not welcome in my house.

I kept my nasty-ass sarcasm to myself, but the conversation went like this anyway -

Me - get off the pc
DD - oh mum, this is important. I'm doing research
ME - yeah, you can get back on in in an hour
DD - I'm researching my new religion
ME - yeah, do it later. What's your new religion?
DD - not telling, you'll give me heaps
Me - Nah, I won't (this goes on for 15mins)
DD - O.K it's Satanism...IT IS a religion you know
Me - yep I do, anything in particular brought you to this conclusion?
DD - SEE, I TOLD YOU, YOU WOULD GIVE ME GRIEF. What would you know?
Me - (smiling), I'm not giving you grief, we talked about all this stuff when you were little. I know a little about a few religions, I was just wondering what interests you, I may even have some books you might like to read (total BS, but you can see where I was going with it).
DD - NO ! SEE, I KNEW you would give me a hard time - Storms off to bed.

Yeah, so definitley the BF has a lot to do with it, because she is a smart kid, but I know he is setting this up ifywim? "Your mum won't understand - bit I WILL" etc etc. Although I am having a bit of a laugh, I am most certainly watching this quite closely - they are all drama queens at this stage.....but it can turn nasty quickly.
I've caught the little [email protected] out in a big, fat, lie recently. In fact I might start another thread about that.....


In any case the whole primal/virility thing I get, but I don't think it's a suitable focus for a young lady! Am I a nerd?
Leasha - I really appreciate that info - I almost can't be bothered googling it to get through all the blood sacrifice crap that would probably come up. Would anyone know of a safer site or area I could direct her.....

[Indadhanu]

Hmmmm..... Lulu, I tried to serach for a good site for you... one that is not about death and evil and it is hard to do! I did find one that is pretty good.....
For new Satanists

Not disgusting, and talks bout the myths that go along with satanism, the origins of satanism, and why 'modern' satanism is a corruption of traditional satanism.

P.S. You're definately not a nerd.

[Kazbah]

*back from looking for new thread*

Yeah, men are evil. *grins* But in the long run, I think anything that inspires learning isn't all bad.

I *love* your conversation!!!! But I do hope he isn't setting her up ...

[New Dawn]

sorry not much to excepted Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I dont want teenager LOL

[~StarBright~]

Hey Lulu- i found it!! LOL

Wow, That convo with your DD was hilarious!! U r a pretty cool mum- i reckon let her research- do what u said and maybe get some books and some info and really let her find out what it is all about- but make sure it is a "factual" stuff that she reads- what i ahve read so far reminds me a bit of what i haver researched "Celtic History and beleifs" to be about- nature and respect

I have my own theory I sort of always looked at it like this- i kind of think that some religions who use the term "devil" and "satan" and "evil" are really refering to the "Natural order" or power- and it doesnt really mesh well with their idea of a God and humans being the centre of the universe- so they say that this "power" or energy or whatever is "bad" and "evil" in an attempt to stop people from wanting to know and interact with the natural universe. They still carry on with some of the same values and ideals- but they dont like the idea of ppl having access or something?
Any way i loose the plot there a bit- but i guess in a very far out there kind of way- i beleive that this "satan" is i guess the true "god"?

Oh dear- am i Satanist??? LOL

I still very much see your concerns regarding your daughter and her bowing to her bf influences... i guess that this is a great time to start to show her that it is important for her to be herself and trully find out what she beleives and thinks and the idea is to surround yourself with people you want to be around because of how YOU (her) feel- not feel something to suit the people you are hanging around.. and hey if she finds that it suits her- good on her for exploring her options- as long as its for the right reasons!!

BTW i'm sorry if i have offended anyone

[Nelle]

Ohhh Lulu, it sounds like she's desperate to go all rebellious and you're not fussed. Poor lass.

Hmm well, as a Christian, I take Satan pretty seriously, but it's sounding like she's focussed more on the 'bad' image Satanism has - focussed on rebellion as opposed to the actual religion?

I'm pretty sure I have read of murders and awful rituals in the name of Satanism though, a case in Italy is coming to mind right now - so I would still be keeping a close eye on it, even if you are outwardly displaying indifference...

If I wasn't so opposed to Satan, I'd suggest you show an interest in Satanism too - way to make it uncool!

Hope it all works out anyway.

[Lulu]

I know Nelle - I'll have to pretend I don't like her shoes or something.

O.K I posted about the Boyfriend issue here - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums/...98#post1054398

Oh Cai - I forgot to tell you. DD DID dye her hair black......and it looks AWESOME.
It's so long think and blunt cut she looks like a little Anime doll.

She quite like rubbing that in my face lol!