I'm being cruel to her...

[sloane]

i'm so glad the appt went well & you had such a great night!

it really does get easier - it just takes a while to work out their little quirks & what suits your baby!

[MrsBexie]

Yay!!!! That post sounds really positive which is great!
I am so glad the appointment went well! And it's good to know she wants to suck!

Keep at it, sounds like you are doing a brilliant job!!!!!

[MantaRay]

That's great news hun. Things are definitely improving and I can tell from your posts how much more positive you are. Way to go!!

How did you go last night? If feeding lying down is working best at the moment, then there is no reason not to try that during the day as well. Obviously you want to be able to feed in other positions too or going out might get a little difficult As your DD gets a bit bigger and more experienced feeding in other positions will become easier. Some mums do stick to lying down feeding for a few days at first while getting the feeding established and then try sitting up feeding feeding again. If it takes some stress of you for a bit it can't be too bad!!

Did you have a look at the link I posted for bresatfeeding with large breasts? There might be some other position ideas there that could work for you.

I hope there is more good news today hun - you really are making fantastic progress.

[xXHopeXx]

Thanks guys

She's still feeding from me and hasn't had to have a bottle at all!! so so proud of her and I.. I don't mind that she takes awhile to feed sometimes, or wants to feed more or ANYTHING! All I care about is that she's happy and feeding from me

AND she just fed while I was sitting down too rather than lying down! Yay! I'm just praying she keeps this up!

But we do have a new problem... She will feed herself silly at just about every feed! I let her feed til she seems satisfied, I take her off, burp her, change the nappy, give her a small break, and more often than not she vomits! Sometimes not much, sometimes a fair bit! Then she acts hungry again, and won't settle unless she has a dummy/finger and I cuddle her to sleep!
She used to just go to sleep in her bassinet (mostly) and prefer it to being with us! But since she's been vomiting up her feeds, she won't settle properly...

Is this common? What can I do to help prevent the vomiting? Because if I take her off too early, she won't settle at all, but too late and she's sick! She doesn't cry before or after vomiting, doesn't seem in pain, she just chucks up, then is hungry again!

I dont know if it helps, but she often has orangish poos, it has the milk curds and is very runny, which I've been told is normal, but the colour has always been odd to me? I thought maybe she has a virus or something? Maybe it's a sign of reflux or something? (not that I have really any idea what to look for at all!)

If it's normal, I can deal with it, but it's very messy, and it can't be good for her?

[Kmn]

It's totally normal and it will settle over the next couple of months as the valve at the top of her tummy gets stronger. The difficulty settling is probably more that she is becoming more aware of her surroundings - it's also very normal.

If she is really distressed by it then she may have reflux, which can be treated with medicine, but unless she's seriously unhappy it's not a problem.

Always pack a spare top for you and a couple of cloth nappies and a complete change of clothes for bub when you go anywhere though!

Bizarre pooh is totally normal for small babies as well. It will probably go from yellow to orange to green sometimes.... And will almost always be sloppy.
And in a couple of months she may well only pooh once a week just to be different.

[tinkerbelle]

Hey.. Im with baby luv. Breastfeeding was like this for me too, especially the first two weeks. My nipples had to literally change shape before he got the hang of the feeding.. and they did eventually with all the practice. Just hang in there, because it will get easier. The first two weeks are definitely the hardest, and I think it only starts to feel more natural and easy after about six weeks. People say that breastfeeding is natural for baby and its Mum that has to learn, but I really feel that my bubs had to learn how to do it, and it took time. He would pull on and off the breast all the time and was constantnyl wanting to feed for the first five weeks - I think that he was trying to build my milk supply actually, looking back at it now. Also - another reason why bubs can pull on and off is reflux. Our little boy had reflux quite bad to start, it is just getting better now. Have you had your baby checked by the GP for anything like this?.. What I found really helped us (and I think can also help with a fast let down) is reclinig myself back and laying him up across my tummy so that he wouldnt get as much milk as quick, and also lying next to him to feed which was a bit tricky to get the hang of, but really worked once we started it..
good luck, i am sure with persistence, your bubs will get it. I was discharged from hospital with my bubs being completely formula fed, and I had a really poor milk supply, bubs had reflux... and his patterns sounded very similar to your baby's. Now because there was no way I was going to resort to formula feeding and I was going to persist until we got it... my bubs is breastfeeding just fine, we are 11wks down the track.. Just dont give up, you are not being mean at all.. as they say, 'breast is best!!'... my bubs is a good example of how things can turn around.

[tinkerbelle]

Sorry just read your appointment post, thats is great you've had some improvement!!! Still, reading your most recent post, your bubs still sounds a bit like our bubs who would (once he got the hang of breastfeeding) overfeed a lot because of reflux.. to soothe the burning feeling in his throat. He had silent reflux most of the time.., later it became more just chucking up after every feed, and is onyl settling now in the past couple of weeks. I found the best things that helped were baby wearing (keeping him upright to sleep on me), and keeping him upright after feeds, reclining his cot with a wedge so he was not completely flat, and the cranial osteopath..
Sorry I have not read through all the posts so not sure if you have already explored this and asked for a GP opinion on reflux.. as KMN said, you probably wouldnt need meds unless they are really distressed by it, we never ended up using meds.. there are other natural alternatives out there too if it comes to that..

[sunshine_sieben]

Hun, I don't have time to read all the replies, but I read your OP and then the post with a quick rundown of your story.

I really feel for you. I had lots of trouble initially, too. I felt EXACTLY like you do.
I had flat nipples, that just didn't want to stick out much. My BC midwife, after spending 5 hours a day at my house for a few days, was at her wit's end and took me to see a lactation consultant. She managed to help me. And with her advice and regular pumping, I managed to "draw out my nipples". It took a couple of weeks, but I finally got to the stage where I could breastfeed with ease. It was a combination of my nipples not being so "shy" anymore and my daughter's suck being stronger.
I have breastfed for over 3 1/2 years now (with a short interruption during the second part of my second pregnancy).
And for what it's worth, I never had those problems with the second child. So what you are doing now is paving the way for future babies, too.

If indeed you have problems with a fast letdown (I did with my second), your baby will soon get accustomed to this and probably love it. Give her a chance to grow a little.
Keep pumping. Keep trying the breast. Give yourself a break when you need one. I found that taking the pressure off for a day and just feeding EBM helped me.

And you are NOT BEING CRUEL. Breastfeeding takes practice. And yes, it can be frustrating for both of you. But you will both learn.
ABA counsellors are great. But in this case, if they can't help, find a good lactation consultant. I am sure they will be able to help.

[MantaRay]

I agree that it sounds normal hun. Some babies chuck after every feed for months (sorry to be the one to tell you!!). In an otherwise healthy baby this is not a problem - except for all the extra washing. Believe me, I know that it's a lot of work as one of mine was a happy chucker too. Sometimes holding the baby upright for 15 minutes or so after a feed can help - but it might not too.

It is great news that feeding is going so well hun. Don't just be proud of your daughter, be proud of you too. You are doing a fantastic job hun.

[Miss E]

What can I do to help prevent the vomiting? Because if I take her off too early, she won't settle at all, but too late and she's sick! She doesn't cry before or after vomiting, doesn't seem in pain, she just chucks up, then is hungry

Glad things are going so well for you Hun! Just wanted to say that I had a happy chucker too, started at about 3 weeks and didn't subside until about 7 months. Only advice I have is invest in some cloth nappies to use as spew cloths, DS had one underneath him wherever he went. Once again, I'm so happy to hear the BF is on track.

[sunshine_sieben]

I'm so glad to read that you had some success.
I just remembered that I could only feed DS lying down in the first couple of months as that seemed to slow down enough for him to handle it.
Is it possible that is why she fed well overnight, but you had trouble in the morning?

And DS certainly was a happy chucker. He vomited a lot. But still gained exceptionally well.

Hope your partner's test went well

[xXHopeXx]

thanks guys!!

she's still going great! she hasnt had to feed from a bottle at all and is feeding so so well now! she had a long feed last night and finished at 12.30pm, then let me sleep all the way til 5.30, then had a quick feed and let me sleep from 6-9.30am after that!

and she is now feeding with me sitting up again! but i have a feeling now that she must have been trying to up my supply, as now my boobs are beginning to leak like crazy again, i've leaked through my bra and nursing pad like 3 times in the past 24 hours! lol. im just grateful theyre not engorged, not that they ever were, just slightly firm and leaking lol


in regards to the "happy chucking" ( i like that term), i was googling reflux and possetting alot last night, and have tried implementing some of the suggestions they had about it, and it seems to have worked for today at least, shes fed herself silly alot, but hasnt vomited once! just a little bit of spit up occasionally, which just dribbles out of her mouth, i've been changing her nappy before feeds rather than after, and when she's finished feeding, i try not to move her as much as possible for at least 15 minutes, whether she's lying down or whatever, just keep her as still as possible, and it seems to be working


sunshine - yeah i think she copes better when im lying down that my flow is picking up again, i noticed that she seems to struggle abit more when im sitting up, she can still cope, but its harder, ITMS? she is feeding well the whole time, but the time i had to give her the bottle, she was just feeding and feeding and feeding for ages, not sure why, except that maybe shes just trying to pick up my supply?


mantaray - i was afraid someone might say that about chucking up! lol oh well, i dont care, provided she puts on weight and is happy, im happy!!


but i have had to start giving her a dummy to settle her more, we are thinking she might have slight reflux? she just wants to comfort suck, as every time she whinges, ill put her on the boob, but she pulls off and doesnt want it, but still looks around for something to suck?
so i took your advice manta-ray and tried giving her the dummy/finger and its working pretty well she still is being fussy occasionally to settle, and often wants to be held til shes asleep, but i dont mind; when shes asleep, shes asleep until its getting close to her feed time but that again is why we think it may be reflux, because occasionally she wakes and has a cry and wont properly settle til shes sitting up, whether its on a pillow or with us (we experimented to see if it was because she was by herself or not) so who knows, its not bothering her too much, but we will see a doc if it gets any worse, but from what alot of the different websites have said, and from what you guys have said too, docs wont do anything for reflux unless its bad anyway? so i guess we just have to keep implementing the suggestions i've read about keeping her more upright and whatnot i spose


i cannot stress enough how much all the support and advice everyone has given me over the past few days has meant, if i could give more rep points and everything, i would, but i cant do more than i already have!!

it has really put DH & I's mind at ease with different problems, and you have all helped me through a really tough time in the feeding, as you all know, there will be up's and downs, but being the first couple weeks, hearing a baby screaming for food, and not taking it for SOME reason unknown to you wont take it is EXTREMELY stressful and frustrating.
BF'ing can be extremely tough and every suggestion we got, we tried, and im grateful, even if it didnt work, because i will remember it and try it when we have troubles again, because im sure it will work at some point!

Thank you all so so so SO much... i will definitely keep updating though, and also let you know how she's doing with weight gains and her feeding etc. as im sure i will be needing more advice and help being a first timer

[xXHopeXx]

Hope your partner's test went well

Oh, and DH feels he did pretty well on the test, he wont know if he gets through for further interviews and such for a couple weeks though, but he feels rather confident

[sunshine_sieben]

Awwww, your last post made me feel all warm and fuzzy. Belly Belly is a wonderful place to get advise, info and to just get stuff off your chest and realise you're not alone in whatever you are experiencing.
I am so glad that you seem to be going so well now. I'm happy that the wonderful girls here could help you. Within no time breastfeeding will be second nature to you and all these problems will be a distant memory. I just wish more women had this kind of support in real life.

With regards to the chucking. I would not worry about it. I think most bubs chuck/ posset a little after a feed. Mine both did. DS more so than DD. And it lasted until he started solids. You get used to what I call "Eau de Babychuck"
As someone suggested, try a towel or cloth nappy over the shoulder (although I found that more hassle than it was worth as my babies always managed to get around the towel anyway). Keep her upright. I had a Hug-a-Bub and found that was great for after a feed.
After a few weeks, I fed to sleep most of the time. So I would lie on my bed, feed them to sleep, then sneak away (with pillows around them should they start rolling). This way I didn't need to disturb them at all and the sleep helped them to keep it in ITMS.
But again, as long as the weight gains are ok, don't worry about the milky dribbles.
Her waking up crying does not necessarily point to reflux either. It could just be that she had a little gas and the change of position helped it pass.

Anyway, I am very proud of you for sticking it out and actively going out and finding a solution. Well done! I know it's not always easy and it takes a determined mum to get through it sometimes. You won't regret it.

[~Raven~]

I was told that when they have an overfull tummy they act like they want more ie rooting and snuffling and chewing on fingers. My LC also told me that the sucking relfex also gets the gut moving which is why they can tend to suck more when they are overfull. Instead of feeding her again when you think she's had enough, try a dummy. Two of mine needed a dummy and one self settled with thumb. Only one out of 4 settled on his own.

Do the poos look like satay sauce? If they do then that's pretty normal Have you seen much baby poo? Are you comparing what you are seeing to that of a formula fed bub because they are very different!

ETA sorry I replied then noticed there was a second page! Glad to see you are doing better

[MantaRay]

Gem, that is awesome news. I am so glad you are feeling more confident and that you and your DP are feeling so much better about things. The first few weeks are hard for most mums - no-one can explain to you before hand just how hard they can be. It's so good that you are coming out the other side already.

I wouldn't worry too much about reflux hun, but definitely keep trying the tips if they are working. Reflux is very over-diagnosed - most of the signs of reflux can also be normal baby behaviour so as you say, unless it's very bad it can be hard to know for sure. If it really were reflux however I think you'd find your DD wouldn't settle lying down at all - or very often, would scream in her car seat and would be far more unsettled. Sucking is totally normal after a feed, as Raven says it helps with digestion and moving wind through. If a dummy works that's great. You might also find that once your supply settles down - sometime in the next few weeks you will probably stop leaking and your breasts won't feel firm anymore, this is your supply settling down and is totally normal, nothing to worry about - that she will be able to do her "comfort sucking" at the breast following a feed without getting much extra milk. Right now when she sucks at the end of a feed she's probably getting lots more milk. Comfort sucking is sometimes thought to be a bad things - I've had people tell me not to let my baby comfort suck - but it's actually what they are supposed to do to get the gut working properly.

I am so glad that you are going to keep us updated. I hope it's all good news (but it's ok if it's not )

[sunshine_sieben]

I completely agree with what the others have said.

Both my kids had a strong sucking need and I ended up giving a dummy. In my opinion they are not as evil as some people make them out to be. As long as you make sure you don't overuse them, you'll be fine. Make sure you let her suck long enough on your breast. Even once her sucking has slowed down a little. Otherwise you might risk reducing your supply. By the sounds of things that is not an issue right now, but you don't want it to become one. Go with your instinct on this one.

The leaking is completely normal. That's why breastpads are an industry in its own right
You could invest in some cloth breast pads. This way you don't have to spend money on disposable ones all the time. I used to leak until DD was about 6 months old. I don't think it is the norm to leak that long. But I had a huge supply. I should have been donating back then. With DS my supply settled a bit earlier. I only leaked for a month or two.

[xXHopeXx]

I just wanted to post a woo-hoo!

Today I tried something out halfway through a feed, I took off the shield and tried to attach her and she took!!! she even got another letdown going without any shield on!!

I'm so so proud of her ATM