Feeling conflicted, guilty and undecided about how to birth baby #2

[RhiChiChi]

I am so happy that you feel so supported and more at ease at making a decision for you & your family. Whatever the decision you make, again best of luck and KUP x

[peanutter]

Blondie - another thought, is whether you need what I like to call a birthing b**** with you at the hospital. I have been a birthing b**** once, and a bride's b**** several times.

Their role is basically to make sure you get what you want, and are heard and advocated for at the critical times. They know what you want, and what specific things are non-negotiable for you, and when you, your DH, your mum etc may be wavering or shy or feeling like an imposition, or exhausted or in too much pain or distraction or whatever to pursue things, ask enough questions or *whatever* the birthing b****'s job is to press in.

Someone unafraid and unashamed to go in to bat full pelt when needed.

Sometimes this is an independent midwife or doula, or maybe it's a family member or friend who you know will 110% back you up and press on for your wishes to be heard and respected.

I was happy enough to do this for myself last time about things critical to me (skin to skin asap, vernix left on, bf in recovery, baby stays with me at all times, etc) but I have friends who are not quite as comfortable being assertive, who have benefited from someone who is informed, respectful and caring, but also happy to be (bossy, bit*hy, aggressive, demanding, staunch) assertive when needed.

Don't get me wrong - let's not stop medical practitioners from doing what they need to do, or rendering good and proper care, and let's absolutely not be rude or shout or not let the birthing mother change her mind! But sometimes it's good to leave someone trusted with a list of priorities, and let them make sure the job gets done.

It can bring you comfort and condifence, and let you concentrate on the important things - like birthing the baby, whether vaginally or otherwise.

[Jennifer13]

Let us know how you're doing Blondie. You sound more empowered already and that's a great place to get to for decision-making!

Peanutter - love what you had to say. Xx

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Peanutter, what happens when the birthing b* is ignored because the husband can be bullied and his word is "more important" - ie, he's more compliant?

There's something getting me angry on this thread, and it's no longer the friends questioning the C-section. It's this: why the blue blazes should we have to educate ourselves, fight, have people to fight for us in the hospital, be belittled, tortured, come out of "birthing" feeling abused and like we cannot ever do this again so surgery/freebirth is the only option?

This is NOT to have a go at you for feeling like this, Blondie (I feel the same, hence putting freebirth in the question above). It's having a go at the establishment who have done this to you. It's attacking the fact we accept that poor old first-time mums are going to be abused and we can't stop it, we can just try to fight it. Guess what? I tried to fight. I ended up alone and in tears, threatened with a hysterectomy if I didn't comply (as my DH would sign anything and that's consent, apparently). How is that ever OK? And why are we playing into the system by accepting it and saying how we are going to do fire-fighting at the time and most of the time it ends up with the blaze (ie the Obs/mids) getting out of control? I say we need to get rid of the rot by getting rid of the whole establishment.

I truely hate maternity "care", because as far as I see, we all acknowledge that it doesn't exist, or it's something we have to hunt high and low for.

[Jennifer13]

TFB - you don't have to worry about the system so much in a HB. An IM becomes your advocate if you have to shift, but here in Aust more than 90% of planned HBs occur at home, with 95-98% of planned HBs being non- instrumental vaginal deliveries. If avoiding a maternity system that frankly has been based on trial and error through practice rather than proactive scientific study is important to you, then stay out of that system. There are care providers who feel exactly the same way you do about the hospital system, so their support is going to be the complete opposite to what you've received. I'm not sure of the stats where you are, but I'd say the same to you as to Blondie.

Figure out the birth you want and find out how it can best be achieved. There are plenty of others who've walked a similar path, look at what worked for them and see if you think it might for you.

And this might not be PC, but if you don't want your DH there, don't have him. Michel Odent would be totally with you on this. He's got plenty of time to bond with his child and if his presence at the birth makes it harder for you (and thus will impact the baby too), then he can stay away. Birth is not everyone's thing. I had a doula so DP's support was optional. He knew nothing about birth, I decided making him my primary support was placing too much pressure on both of us. He was there, but I don't have your trauma and if I did, maybe he wouldn't have been.

That said, DD2's was such an amazing experience that it brought us all much closer together as a family. I have heard other women say their similar births helped to heal the division caused by the trauma first time around.

Oh, and don't confuse empowerment with the need to fight. They are not the same.

[Jennifer13]

Sorry to hijack Blondie.

TFB, maybe start a new thread elsewhere about this? Especially since this is in c/s support.

[Blondie]

Hijack accepted lol! I am finding it all very interesting and informative!

Flying butter - I never looked at it that way. We shouldn't have to fight what should be a natural process for our bodies to go through. I think for me, it was being deined what I wanted. One particular midwife kept telling me things like "You don't need the drugs your almost there".....(35 hours into labour) and then telling me "Your doing it wrong, don't do it that way"... since when is making yourself comfortable "doing it wrong". I think the icing on the cake for me was when to get my point across I had to scream and scream and scream and then start bawling asking for the Epidural. Your should never have to be hysterical to get your point across....I was at the point of no return and I felt like a cornered animal.

[onthefly]

Yeah, I totally agree with TFB, also. Carers should focus themselves on working for women - their job is to help and support mothers to birth. If a woman feels unsafe/cornered/disrespected, etc, etc, then someone's not doing their job right.

[peanutter]

TFB: depending on your Birthing B****, that might be part of the brief. The one and only time I was given that role to play, keeping the estranged father OUT was part of my job. To be clear - I was to get him out if and when he hampered the process, upset the birthing mother, or started being a jackass in general. All of which he did. So I kicked him out, after confirming that's what she wanted. And then I enlisted the assistance of the midwives to keep him out, so I could concentrate on her. My DH was also there (not in the room - in the waiting area outside the room) to keep out random friends and family who thought the birthing process was some sort of reality TV program to be viewed and critiqued.

Now, your DH/DPs are probably not 19 year old asshats who decide that they need to be high as a kite and on the phone screaming at their mother for being interstate while you're trying to give birth, but being at the birth is a privilege not a right, and THEIR priority should be keeping you calm and happy and in the best of care. If that involves them being ejected from the room, then so be it.

The bloke being in attendance at the birth is still a reasonably recent phenomenon in Oz, and still isn't universal. I think there's still a time and a place for him to be elsewhere, when it's in the mother (and therefore the baby's) best interests ... they can bond when they're out.





Aside from all of that, and back onto your initial question, have you had any time to journal about it? Write a journal entry, or a letter to your bubba, about your hopes and fears about their birth ... sometimes writing it all out helps us figure out what we're thinking ...

[Lolpigs]

Blondie, don't let anyone make you feel badly about wanting to avoid trauma. I got the same thing with my first birth. I really wanted a natural birth, who dosent? and it wasn't to be, my baby didn't engage and after 41 weeks with blood pressure starting to soar my options were induce which my OB said had a pretty good chance of ended in emergency C.s due to my baby not being engaged and they weren't sure why or C/S.

I chose and elective C/S, I was devastated at first, however know myself, and could not handle 30 hours or whatever of labor and end up with the distress of an emergency C/S. In the end it was the right choice for me and my baby as the cord was wrapped around her neck twice and very short, so short she couldn't engage, so it pretty much confirmed that my OB was right, we would have been an emergency with possibly distressed or dead baby or dead me. Without modern science we probably would have both died, as she never would have been able to get out. Ugh.

I still get people give me looks, like I copped out or took an easy option, my recovery was straight forwards but was by no means easy. If I has to go through a failed VB I don't know that I would have been able to cope at all if I'm honest. I think I would have shut down from the trauma. BF failed, I suffered from anxiety and depression afterwards because of this, and the unrealistic expectations I placed on myself. (I thought if it had to have C/S BF would damn well work! well it didn't) And I had a severe reflux baby. Hey I did get to use cloth nappies like I wanted. Life sometimes has a funny way of giving you what you need rather than what you want. The C/S was no party I was numb almost up to my chin, exhausted but I got to hold my baby all the way through, she slept on me in recovery and BF once we ere back in our room. I too have issues with midwives as they didn't help but hindered me and made me feel like everything I did was wrong constantly.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you had massive trauma last time, I see no reason to go through that again. I would discuss what happened last time with a trusted OB/GP , get them your notes from last time from the hospital and discuss the risks/ pros/cons and make your decision from there. This is what we did. I know myself and my body was so glad we made that choice as I got a happy and healthy baby and I survived too.

This time around, I'm going to try for a VBAC, but if the same thing happens again I will choose elective C/S again. I will not hesitate. For me while recovery from C/S was hard, recovering from a failed VB and Trauma from that I would not be able to cope with at all. You need to do what is good not just for your physically I think, but mentally and emotionally as well. I found the failure of BF harder than the decision to C/S. This caused me lots of heartache and tears. How the baby comes out, isn't the definition of you as a woman. Sun roof is a fine option if needed.

Take care, and ignore those people that are not supportive of you. No-one other than you and your husband make this decisions.

xx

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Aside from all of that, and back onto your initial question, have you had any time to journal about it? Write a journal entry, or a letter to your bubba, about your hopes and fears about their birth ... sometimes writing it all out helps us figure out what we're thinking ...

Here: https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...about-Liebling

I also met with a hospital midwife in my home when Liebs was 2.5 and I'd left it too late to put in a complaint, but she did agree that I had not been treated well and many things happened that shouldn't have. And the midwives had documented that I didn't want drugs and they'd kept offering them, that the monitoring showed X but the midwives ignored it to do Y and so on and so forth - the arrogance that they document their failings and don't expect to be called up on it - and they weren't because I couldn't bring myself to complain within the year.


Have you debriefed fully, Blondie? For me it was also being denied - denied my right to be treated as a human, denied my wish labour as I wished when there was no problem, denied my right not to be bullied... sounds like other people telling you what you want instead of listening to you, you had similar denials.

[Blondie]

Thanks for your support everyone

I am pretty much certain now that I will be taking the C/S option. I wrote down the pro's and con's of both options and I realised the only things that were making me think twice about C/S was the lack of support from people and also the mother / baby attachment issues that may arise from being separated momentairly from bub. I was paranoid that baby wouldn't know who I was and therefore would have issues latching, sucking etc, but then I remembered that I was rushed off to theater with DS anyway and didn't get to see him for an hour at least....apart from the first cuddle straight after delivery. So, in order to help with the issues I have decided to not tell people about how I am going to birth, I will just say "we'll see how we go" and to sort out my other fear of mother / baby attachment I have a good friend who is a Midwife who I am going to ask to be a support person and to help me establish breastfeeding.

I have also read up on exactly what will happen to me before, during and after C/S and I do feel like I am more prepared and more knowledgable about my decision....now I feel like I am going in to this experience with my eyes open and not closed.

[Three Graces]

Glad you're feeling more positive about your decision. If you go elect you should have a midwife assigned to you and have bubs in recovery with you for that first feed.
Wishing you all the best for a much better birth experience!

[peanutter]

Sounds like you're feeling much more at peace.

Good luck, hun.

[Blondie]

Thanks Ladies I really couldn't have done it without such amazing support. Everyone helped me to face reality and to not be scared about going through all the options. This is going to sound bizarre, but I was really worried about making a pro's and con's list as I was certain going over details to do with my birth and what I wanted out of the next one would only make me upset and further stressed but it had the opposite effect!

[AlligatorsMum]

Blondie - I'm glad u have come to a decision u are happy with, it is the only thing that matters!

I just wanted to let u know that I had a c/s with my first DS in January and after initial cuddle he was taken with my HB back to the ward and meet grandparents and my sister for about 45mins before I can back down and in total it was about an hour before we were feeding (my temp took a while to come down so was in recovery a little longer). But he is a champion feeder and has never had any attachment or supply issues for the last eight months (touch wood!)

I wish u all the best for your remaining months and enjoy ur baby when they arrive!

[Lolpigs]

So glad your at peace now Blondie Just put in your plan you want your baby on your chest through out the stitch up and in recovery with you. It is what I did. Unless something goes wrong most hospitals will do that now. Planned is much better as you will most likley have a midwife allocated in recovery to you so you can BF or snuggle with bubs there.

Take care and hope the rest of your pregnancy is HAH. xx

[Blondie]

Thanks Ladies

Minivini2b - I hope that this bubba feeds well. DS didn't feed well, but I blame myself, he and I were both so exhausted from the Labour that he slept though the night and so did I! So first night he had hardly any feeds and pretty much second night as well. I am hopeing that this time I will be more attentive and remember to wake him for a feed.

Lolpigs - Can you write a birth plan for C/S? If so that is awesome!