Feeling conflicted, guilty and undecided about how to birth baby #2

[peanutter]

Sounds like you're at peace about your decision

I've never heard of a standard Dr not agreeing to a c/s in circumstances like yours.

[Blondie]

Sounds like you're at peace about your decision

I've never heard of a standard Dr not agreeing to a c/s in circumstances like yours.

thanks hon - I do feel more settled and at peace :-) yeah, I don't think they would refuse me but you never know.

[RhiChiChi]

Blondie,

I am wishing you all the very best for your upcoming arrival of your little one. Your decision to choose a c-sect is a very valid one & I believe that the OBS will be supportive given why.

[Blondie]

Blondie,

I am wishing you all the very best for your upcoming arrival of your little one. Your decision to choose a c-sect is a very valid one & I believe that the OBS will be supportive given why.

Thank you so much I can't believe I am nearing the halfway mark! Time is flying - and OMG you are about to pop! So exciting!

[Jennifer13]

Blonde, your choice is your own and no one can take that away from you. There is nothing to apologise for or feel guilty about in choosing a c/s.

Having said that, maybe it's worth exploring why it makes you feel bad to be considering c/s this time. Do you feel supported by your care providers and your DH? Do you think there are things that happened in your DS's birth that you need to debrief so that you can feel at peace and able to prepare yourself this time (regardless of your choice)? Do you think maybe you'd like more info before you choose, or to explore all the options a bit more?

Whatever it is that you need to do, do it and you can really own your choice. Then you won't care what anyone you speak to thinks about your decision, you'll be at peace with it.

Think about what you really want from this birth. Research how to get that. Find care providers to support it. You know your body best, so decide what really matters to you in this birth.

FWIW the experience of your first birth does not have to be repeated second time around (I and many other women on here can attest to that). But you can't expect to prepare yourself the same way, go with the same care providers, in the same setting and have a completely different outcome. Something does have to change. Maybe it is the way you plan to give birth (ie elective c/s), maybe it's some of the other things around you. I think you're wise not to go with those you feel let you down. I'm so sorry you weren't respected for your first birth.

Wishing you the best as you get ready to welcome your new baby.

[onthefly]

I hope you are able to surround yourself with people who care for you and who will work with you to make sure you get the best birth possible

[Blondie]

Thanks Jennifer and MadB I think during most first birthing experience you are so vulnerable....you tend to do what they want you to do and not what feels right for you because you have placed complete trust in these people around you...well I know this was the case for me. And I guess for me it's fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...IYKWIM. This time around I am detirmined to have a good experience what ever it may be. And perhaps debriefing my last labour (as many of you have suggested) before I go into this one would be a wise idea :thinking:

Thank you all so much

[peanutter]

I too had a very traumatic birth, with internal tearing and awful repercussions.

This is something I really struggled with, and was quite depressed about with DS2. I felt guilt, I felt shame. I fluctuated from intense fear, to feelings of laziness and unworthiness ...

Ultimately, I saw a specialist to get a risk assessment done, and learned what the risks were of a repeat performance - and to get a professional opinion about the safety of all concerned.

I also spent many sessions with my counsellor discussing the choice, and trying to wrap my head around it.

At the end of the day, this is your body, and the method of entry into the world is only one part of the tapestry that forms your nurturing and care of your child.

If you will be in a state of fear, or if you will suffer injury from the birth, that needs to be weighed up against the emotional and physical toll of a c-section.

For me and my family, while I was absolutely not happy about needing a c-section, I eventually accepted that it was what would be best for my family, in all the circumstances.

And in hindsight, I made the right decision for us personally.

While I was very nervous about what others might say (not because I feel I need to justify my choices, just because I didn't want to have to defend myself, as it's no one else's sodding business!!) I was pleasantly surprised that I had basically no negative comments, and if people seemed a little down-nosed about my choice, a very brief, "DS1's birth went very badly, and so we need to have a c-section this time" was basically the end of the discussion.

You shouldn't have to justify yourself.

But some people will always say things, either from ignorance or curiosity or thinking they know better, or intentions of helping ... take anything that is helpful, and let the rest go. Come onto BB and vent about it, or just ignore it, or tell them that you understand they might have an opinion, but you only need positive and helpful comments, thanks all the same.

Some people do have a fabulous second birth - don't rule anything out at this early stage. Heaps of women here have managed to have safe and empowering vaginal deliveries, despite an awful first delivery. Look around, and chat to them.

Get some professional opinions. Talk it through. Weigh up your options. And then pick.

But having a c-section because you want to avoid a second traumatic birth is nothing to be bashful about. It's not taking the easy way out. It's not harming your child. It is part of a process whereby YOU decide what is going to lead to YOUR child having a safe entry to the world, with a safe and happy mumma.

Good luck with your decision making process xx

[peanutter]

Blondie - another thought, is whether you need what I like to call a birthing b**** with you at the hospital. I have been a birthing b**** once, and a bride's b**** several times.

Their role is basically to make sure you get what you want, and are heard and advocated for at the critical times. They know what you want, and what specific things are non-negotiable for you, and when you, your DH, your mum etc may be wavering or shy or feeling like an imposition, or exhausted or in too much pain or distraction or whatever to pursue things, ask enough questions or *whatever* the birthing b****'s job is to press in.

Someone unafraid and unashamed to go in to bat full pelt when needed.

Sometimes this is an independent midwife or doula, or maybe it's a family member or friend who you know will 110% back you up and press on for your wishes to be heard and respected.

I was happy enough to do this for myself last time about things critical to me (skin to skin asap, vernix left on, bf in recovery, baby stays with me at all times, etc) but I have friends who are not quite as comfortable being assertive, who have benefited from someone who is informed, respectful and caring, but also happy to be (bossy, bit*hy, aggressive, demanding, staunch) assertive when needed.

Don't get me wrong - let's not stop medical practitioners from doing what they need to do, or rendering good and proper care, and let's absolutely not be rude or shout or not let the birthing mother change her mind! But sometimes it's good to leave someone trusted with a list of priorities, and let them make sure the job gets done.

It can bring you comfort and condifence, and let you concentrate on the important things - like birthing the baby, whether vaginally or otherwise.

[Jennifer13]

Let us know how you're doing Blondie. You sound more empowered already and that's a great place to get to for decision-making!

Peanutter - love what you had to say. Xx

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Peanutter, what happens when the birthing b* is ignored because the husband can be bullied and his word is "more important" - ie, he's more compliant?

There's something getting me angry on this thread, and it's no longer the friends questioning the C-section. It's this: why the blue blazes should we have to educate ourselves, fight, have people to fight for us in the hospital, be belittled, tortured, come out of "birthing" feeling abused and like we cannot ever do this again so surgery/freebirth is the only option?

This is NOT to have a go at you for feeling like this, Blondie (I feel the same, hence putting freebirth in the question above). It's having a go at the establishment who have done this to you. It's attacking the fact we accept that poor old first-time mums are going to be abused and we can't stop it, we can just try to fight it. Guess what? I tried to fight. I ended up alone and in tears, threatened with a hysterectomy if I didn't comply (as my DH would sign anything and that's consent, apparently). How is that ever OK? And why are we playing into the system by accepting it and saying how we are going to do fire-fighting at the time and most of the time it ends up with the blaze (ie the Obs/mids) getting out of control? I say we need to get rid of the rot by getting rid of the whole establishment.

I truely hate maternity "care", because as far as I see, we all acknowledge that it doesn't exist, or it's something we have to hunt high and low for.

[Jennifer13]

TFB - you don't have to worry about the system so much in a HB. An IM becomes your advocate if you have to shift, but here in Aust more than 90% of planned HBs occur at home, with 95-98% of planned HBs being non- instrumental vaginal deliveries. If avoiding a maternity system that frankly has been based on trial and error through practice rather than proactive scientific study is important to you, then stay out of that system. There are care providers who feel exactly the same way you do about the hospital system, so their support is going to be the complete opposite to what you've received. I'm not sure of the stats where you are, but I'd say the same to you as to Blondie.

Figure out the birth you want and find out how it can best be achieved. There are plenty of others who've walked a similar path, look at what worked for them and see if you think it might for you.

And this might not be PC, but if you don't want your DH there, don't have him. Michel Odent would be totally with you on this. He's got plenty of time to bond with his child and if his presence at the birth makes it harder for you (and thus will impact the baby too), then he can stay away. Birth is not everyone's thing. I had a doula so DP's support was optional. He knew nothing about birth, I decided making him my primary support was placing too much pressure on both of us. He was there, but I don't have your trauma and if I did, maybe he wouldn't have been.

That said, DD2's was such an amazing experience that it brought us all much closer together as a family. I have heard other women say their similar births helped to heal the division caused by the trauma first time around.

Oh, and don't confuse empowerment with the need to fight. They are not the same.

[Jennifer13]

Sorry to hijack Blondie.

TFB, maybe start a new thread elsewhere about this? Especially since this is in c/s support.

[Blondie]

Hijack accepted lol! I am finding it all very interesting and informative!

Flying butter - I never looked at it that way. We shouldn't have to fight what should be a natural process for our bodies to go through. I think for me, it was being deined what I wanted. One particular midwife kept telling me things like "You don't need the drugs your almost there".....(35 hours into labour) and then telling me "Your doing it wrong, don't do it that way"... since when is making yourself comfortable "doing it wrong". I think the icing on the cake for me was when to get my point across I had to scream and scream and scream and then start bawling asking for the Epidural. Your should never have to be hysterical to get your point across....I was at the point of no return and I felt like a cornered animal.

[onthefly]

Yeah, I totally agree with TFB, also. Carers should focus themselves on working for women - their job is to help and support mothers to birth. If a woman feels unsafe/cornered/disrespected, etc, etc, then someone's not doing their job right.

[fionas]

Just on the breastfeeding - I fed DD2 sooner after the Caesar than I did DD1 after a VB. My milk also came in a lot quicker too - day 3 compared to Day 7. I had attachment issues with both but that's because I have really large nipples and not to do with their mode of birth. While it's ideal to get breastfeeding off to a great start, also be aware that it's widely regarded that its possible to teach bottle fed babies to breastfeed under 12 weeks of age as its something they do instinctively. I know this because I relactated with DD2 at nine weeks of age. I say this because it's really easy to beat ourselves up about what we did or didn't do in the first hours/days but there's a big window to put things 'right'.

[Blondie]

Thanks so much for your encouragement ladies I was feeling a bit paranoid about the BF'ing side of things. A lot of things were not in my favour with DS, really big boobs, large and flat nipples and my flow was very fast. DS chomped down a lot when he was latching because of the flow, which caused thrush on the nipples, cracks (which I can still see today!) and mastitis. I also had enough milk to feed triplets according to a nurse argh!

I am going to write a breastfeeding plan and then a birthing plan and see how I go. I really hope my OB is supportive. Going through the public system and I have heard it's a bit of a hit and miss....IYKWIM

Lolpigs - I need to take a leaf out of your book and most of the other ladies in here as well....(I could make an encyclopeida of all the good advice I have been given in here) everyone is detrimined to have the experience they so rightly deserve. I can make my first labour my rough draft, and my second my masterpiece! LOL

HotI - I'm definetly going to check that out! Thanks sweet!

FionaS - That's amazing! Well done! I have never heard that but I suppose it is natural instinct isn't it?! That has made me feel heaps better. But it makes me sad to think that I still might have had a chance with DS had I just sought some more help and not been "put off" by people. The nurse I went to see basically weighed my Son and told me that he was a perfect weight and I was doing well. Didn't bother watching me feed, or asking how I was feeling about the issues I was having. Told me, everyone has issues and that they will work themselves out. If the woman had bothered to talk to me she would have realised that waiting for the issues to "work themselves out" wasn't an option I was stressed out and neeeded help now! Next time I am going to be pushy about what I want.

[Blondie]

Just wanted to update everyone....I am going in for my first OB appointment this Thursday, which I was told will be the appointment where we discuss birth options. I have decided to press forward with my decision for a c-section. I talked to a midwife about it last week at my appointment and she was supportive when I told her about my labour last time and why I was considering a c-section, she told me ultimately the Doctor will decide whether I can have one or not, but if I feel strongly enough about it and present him/her with my reasons it would certainly be considered.

Now I am feeling a little bit stressed about if they say no....

I am also having the talk with DH tonight about the whole thing...I want him to realise that I will be out of action and there will be times where he will have to "fend for himself" while I attend to the baby, plus ensure he is aware of recovery times etc.