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Thread: Why is it we blame the community and not the people or better yet ourselves?

  1. #55

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    Liz so so totally get what your saying.
    Trav - what happens when we like the stain on the carpet..always have but when the furniture in that room got changed around, the stain changed shape and wasnt the same stain anymore?


  2. #56

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    If that happens Maz, you have the choice to learn to love the new stain, to ignore it, or to leave the room. But it's not the room's fault, it is the fault of the person who made the stain.

    I have a sudden burning desire to clean my carpets

  3. #57

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    Aaah Traveller love your analogy.

    To take that a step further... Is it really anyone's "fault". Perhaps the stain was a spilt coffee because someone was rushing (read - the "best" word choice wasn't made & some took offense). They tried really hard to remove the stain ( read: the author went back & tried to undo but the someone took the bull by the horns and ran with it)... So they were deemed a carpet wrecker when really they just wanted a coffee & they spilt it...

    We all spill our coffee! I just think stains are a part of life. They show the carpet has had a family on them & they have a life. I think personally it is more helpful just to be grateful we have a room (BB) & not look so carefully at the stains - as we are all of us guilty of spilling coffee sometimes..

  4. #58

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    Why dont we just remove the carpet and put tiles or floorboard? that way a coffee will not stain and you can wipe it easily.

  5. #59

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    baaahahahahhahaha

    I have to say...I know this thread is ment to be very...mature and serious but man...im crying over all this talk about carpet and YES Trav babe...I so think I need to clean my carpets too now

    ETA - my kids think I have lost the plot

  6. #60

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    Love all these housework analogies... Communities do require housework and I think the mods do a great job. Frankly if people are going to be antagonistic and rude and then leave in a huff, good riddance! It's not right for them at the moment, and that's ok, why blame those of us who want to stay?

  7. #61

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    OK, coming in a bit late here.
    I've missed the bun fight, obviously. I don't care and I'm glad I did. There have been so many of these in recent times that I'm, honestly, bored of it. I have enough excitement in real life not to need to weigh into them here.
    BB HAS changed. That 'earth mothery' stuff that is often derided was what brought me to BB in 2005. That was its calling card, it was the appeal and it was the key audience. I felt safer in the early days than I do now, and nowadays I use BB for different reasons. I needed the community back then to bounce ideas off and confirm my own approach to pregnancy, birth and mothering. I don't need it now - instead I retain the friends I've made, I am friendlier with the members who have been here longer probably because I know them from the days of smaller membership base, when you could keep a track of what perspective members were coming from.
    Really, if you communicate from a heart space, instead of from ego and 'being right', lots more can be achieved on BB.
    Thanks, Onyx, for the figures - I knew BB had grown substantially, I just didn't realise it was c.20000! That explains how I had been feeling about the 'community' in recent times.
    There is still lots of information to share and friends to make.
    I refuse to apologise for what I believe about parenting, birthing, feeding etc, and I won't post disclaimers. I was the target audience when I joined and though I realise BB has expanded to include more baby-training areas my reasons for not going down that road as still clear to me and still relevant, and still evidence-based. I just don't really participate in those parenting discussions anymore because I've had my say, years ago
    I don't like the idea of ignore lists. I've never used one - can you believe it? With the run ins I've had over the years?? I always pushed myself beyond initial reactions and thought of 'ignore' as a cop out for me. I know there are members who benefit from these because they aren't able to as easily realise that most comments are not about them and that most 'offending' posts really reflect where the poster is coming from than who that post is supposed to aimed at. If you're not in the headspace to take a step back, or even to walk away from an argument, then definitely use an ignore list!
    Anyway, yes, the community has changed and that's why I'm not here as much as before, among other reasons. The demographic has changed, and the orientation has changed. When women here want to celebrate their gorgeous, natural births, or their breastfeeding experiences, or their 'attachment' parenting and are told they are 'making' other people feel guilty, then that makes me sad Because BB was the place you could once come to in order to do just that.

  8. #62

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    Reading this thread, I am now really interested to know if I am on anyone's ignore list.

    I know I have butted heads with alot of people. But I know I am pretty outspoken IRL too. I don't expect everyone to like me, just as I don't expect to like everyone else. I think the problem is that (especially) with on-line communities - people form opinions and beleifs about people and 'groups' of people, which is threatened when something happens that appears contrary to these beliefs. I know that those who have met me IRL, likely had a different opinion of me before they met me as to what they did after. I have certainly met some fabulous people who are different to how I had imagined them to be. They are still the same people, they still post the same things, but you begin to realise the deeper story and intentions and attiudes behind the posts.

    It is hard because the community as a whole is largely 'invisible' all we see is an extremely small snapshot in the form of a brief post.
    I know some people on here probably think I am a complete b!tch - I have likely come across as that on many occaisions. Would you believe me if I said I'm not
    I know other members have been extremely surprised when they have found out my age (28yrs) they have made assumptions that I was older - for various reasons: still not sure whether to be insulted or pleased

    We fill in all the gaps with our own bias. Obviously we are often wrong. Hence the community will mean different things for different people.

    I have been a member for about 5.5yrs, I am still not entirely sure how much the community has changed in that time, and how much is the fact that I have changed - a bit of both I would suggest. Sometimes, BB has been exactly what I needed. Sometimes, it has been everything that I haven't needed. The community has occaisionally been both things at once - which has seen me visiting specific forums and avoiding others. How much of this is because of myself and how much of this is because of the 'community'???? I think it has been a little of both.

    Would I change any of it? No. It is what it is.

    Do I sometimes respond before I can think of how I could say things better (with a little more tact)? Definitely.
    Does this make my answer any less honest? No, probably sometimes more honest - but then honesty is not always a good thing or what is required.

    But regardless of everything else - I actually feel like I am part of the community. So if things aren't the way I would like them within the BB comunity, then I do look towards myself, and what I can do to change this.

  9. #63

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    at carpets and stains ... gotta love a good analogy

    I have been thinking about this thread too. I guess my take on it is that I love the BB community so I guess if I can have positive feelings towards it as a whole then there is also the potential to have negative feelings towards it too, as a whole. But then I also think that if I am feeling a particular way then the responsibility for how I am feeling lies with me a little bit. It is my job to understand what I am feeling (which is sometimes a lot harder than we realise) and why I am feeling that way and if it is reasonable to feel that way.

    I find sometimes that I have to remind myself at times that BB is not the centre of the universe and there are lots of things that happen outside of it so it is okay to turn off my computer and go and do something to clear my head and try and give myself perspective on the things that are happening.

    I think that this is a place where we share ourselves so deeply that it is easy to be hurt because many of us feel so vulnerable. I also think that this is a place full of people passionate about being parents and we have that in common. Just because we all are passionate about parenting though does not mean that we all agree on how it should be done but that is what makes this place so great in itself. If we were all the same, thought the same and even reacted the same, it would be pretty boring. I think I have grown and changed so much as a person and as a parent because of the things I have read in here and the people that I interact with. I feel incredibly lucky to have come across BB and my kids should be more grateful to this place than they will ever know.

    As for it changing - I have only been around for 18 months and even in that time it has changed but I don't think change is bad. I guess because it is a forum aimed very much at people starting families and families with young children, I guess there is going to come a time when I see that I would move on from here. I don't know that I will definitely, but I do think that everything has a season and maybe when I feel that I my life has moved past lots of the issues discussed here and I don't have small children anymore, I think the season of my life for BB might be over. I think it is okay for people to move on when they are ready. It is healthy for them and healthy for the community.

    I guess the other thing that I think is that most people do not set out to hurt the feelings of another person. I try to remember that when I read posts. I know people get frustrated and they react, but usually their reactions is more about self protection than trying to hurt someone elses feelings. I do have a belief that we are all trying to do the best that we can to help and support one another and that people rarely come in here with the intention of harming another person. If people like that do ever crop up, they don't seem to last very long because there is not a lot of fuel to keep their fire going. I try and concentrate very hard on the sentiment behind the posts that I am reading and not on the actual words used.

    Having said all that, I know that I am far from perfect but I am learning from my experiences. I really love this place and the people that I have gotten to know and I am getting to know here. I really appreciate all the different points of view that are presented and I do appreciate that people take care with their posts to try and write things in a gentle and caring way - being a written medium it is hard to gauge sometimes the tone that something was written with and so taking extra care does make a big difference. In many ways, this kind of forum is a whole new genre and we are all learning how to interact appropriately

  10. #64

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    Here is my 2 cents. BB is a great place, with some lovely folks who have travelled some amazing journeys.
    BUT there is, I feel, an unwritten code about the general ethos of this community. And that is, that is predominantly a gentle parenting forum which believes in empowering women about their birth choices. And this is a good thing.
    However, not everyone likes co-sleeping or baby wearing. Many women love and feel secure under their obstetricians care, and some women (believe it or not) have made informed choices to have a CS or to formula feed.
    There is often a perceived notion that women who do these things do so because they are misinformed and that they need educating. Thats not necessarily true and it can come across as extremley preachy (IMO)
    Maybe BB should be a little more obvious (for want of a better word) about the kind of views it represents, that way everybody knows where they stand.

  11. #65

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    Misty, I like that - it IS what it is, so you just go with it
    I came here more often in the past because it was a safe place I needed, and somewhere I could exercise some cerebral muscle, particularly in relation to the 'gentle' parenting angle. Now, there is the combination of change in demographic as well as me being in a different space of 'need'. Even though I 'need' less often, it is so, so good to know that when I do need, BB is here. Not for an argument, but for the 'core business' of being a place to ask questions and share ideas.
    It's just the way it is. I'm not being dragged down the road of change kicking and screaming

  12. #66

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    I'm pretty sure BB is well known for its philosophies. But there's no 'one size fits all' approach to BB or any aspect of our parenting. If you expect BB to be like that, you're likely to be suspicious of what is being said on BB (by members, usually) in different areas.

    For eg, I had a c/s birth, bf my DD until four, didn't co-sleep from birth, wore her when it suited me, I'm not a SAHM, etc. I don't really fit into any one mould, and neither do most of the parents or parents-to-be on here. Just like studying mathematics for one year at uni didn't make me a mathematician (seriously, I am HOPELESS with numbers), neither does the fact I'm on BB mean I've adopted every philosophy of natural parenting or whatever.

    BB isn't really any one thing. It's just a collection of a whole bunch of people who *gasp* behave like people do in real life. I lived with my sister long enough to realise that sometimes ignoring someone for a while might be the only way not to do something you'll otherwise regret. If you haven't needed to ignore anyone on here yet (list or no), then you probably just haven't met that one person who's guaranteed to push your buttons the way my sister can push mine. And I love her to bits, most of the time!

    Oh, and I don't think there's been so much of a change in niceness or whatever, just more voices to get involved when there's a scuffle. There's always been members who've been *ahem* forthright.

  13. #67

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    I think that's a good point Jen. I think a lot of people just assume that the ethos of BB is strict and undeniable. Yes Kelly has a certain ethos and there are aspects of it that her entire team relate to or we wouldn't be here. But that doesn't mean as you say one size fits all. And if you think for one second that the team agree on everything well let me assure you that isn't the case nor are we minions sent out to battle on her behalf. But unfortunately because we are all so passionate (it's why we were chosen as mods) when we all chip in on a conversation it looks like a gang up when it's not. I can't tell you the amount of times I've wanted to say something about a topic or give my perspective whilst slightly different but similar to other mods and haven't due to the fact that I *know* it would seem like an ambush LOL when it's just my little old opinion <--- I hate this emoticon LOL

  14. #68

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    Im not sure about anyone else but I dont blame the comunity at all. If I have a problem with a specific post or person then I will address it. I treat BB as i would IRL - if I would say it IRL then I will say it here and vice versa.

    I like that BB can have a bit of firer and I like that ppl are so passionate about a cause that they post about it and sometimes lash out. For me I like being told when I am totally out of line and I can oftern learn from that. I think eveyone is entitled to their OWN apoinions and just like RL not eveone is going to like it.

    I would hate BB if it was just a total love in all the time and ppl felt like they couldnt say their peice because someone might get offended. I get that most of the time when I get pee-d off that its the way I have taken the topic or thread and the cord that it has struck with me - I own that. But I would hate to not get to read the posts that may offend me because ppl dont post them in fear of stating something that may cause an issue.

    The world as a whole is becoming way to PC for me = I like that BB lets you say what you need to say and even if ppl dont like it = they can tell you and hell you may even learn a thing or two from the other view point.

    Anyway my 2c worth.. not sure it made sense as all!

    Kate

  15. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer13 View Post
    I'm pretty sure BB is well known for its philosophies. But there's no 'one size fits all' approach to BB or any aspect of our parenting. If you expect BB to be like that, you're likely to be suspicious of what is being said on BB (by members, usually) in different areas.
    See, when I joined this site (prob 2 years ago to the day almost) I didnt know about any "philosophys". I just googled pregnant and here I was.
    Then I got to chattin' and met some really nice folks, so I hung around.
    I never knew there were a whole bunch of things that were majorly frowned upon Tizzie Hall LOL, CS and FF by choice just to name a few.
    When I googled, it said something like Australias friendliest parenting forum.
    I dont regret joining or anything, but i do quite often see newbies being "educated" on their first visit pretty vehemently.
    Maybe on google, it should say like "Australias friendliest gentle, natural parenting site??
    Give folks a bit of a heads up eh?

  16. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayaness View Post
    Misty, I like that - it IS what it is, so you just go with it
    I came here more often in the past because it was a safe place I needed, and somewhere I could exercise some cerebral muscle, particularly in relation to the 'gentle' parenting angle. Now, there is the combination of change in demographic as well as me being in a different space of 'need'. Even though I 'need' less often, it is so, so good to know that when I do need, BB is here. Not for an argument, but for the 'core business' of being a place to ask questions and share ideas.
    It's just the way it is. I'm not being dragged down the road of change kicking and screaming
    When I first started on BB, I posted a thread (that I am somewhat embarrassed about now) that was really quite arrogant about disposable nappies and as another member gently pointed out to me at the time, this is a safe place for people who do gentle parenting to come to find support and to share ideas. She pointed out that in mainstream society, a lot of the ideals are not all that readily accepted but this was a place where they are. I think that has always stuck with me and I do keep that in mind when I am posting. This is a prodominatly gentle parenting site and while I think that means different things to different people, I think it is important to respect that for many people this is one of the few places where they can talk openly about their parenting and not be judged based on stereotypes.

    In many ways I understand why it is a safe place because as I have changed and challenged my own views of parenting and life in general, I am finding this is my safe place too where people seem to really understand and if they don't understand, they are at least willing to listen which in itself is incredibly important and validating.

    It took me a long time to figure out what gentle parenting actually was though because I assumed that I didn't smack my kids or yell at them so that made me a gentle parenter. I think just because the ethos is displayed quite well over the website, I don't think that the concept of it is necessarily as easily grasped. I have never actually heard of gentle parenting before I came across this website and the only way that I have become informed about what it is rather than basing it on my own assumptions is because I have read lots from other members. I really enjoy reading what other people think. I find it fascinating.

    I think just like in life, it is more important to listen than to talk, I think we sometimes need to read and think rather than to post. I think it is important to share your own ideas, but I also think it is important to put value on what other people are saying and read the whole thread and think about it before posting. That's just my 2c worth though ... again

  17. #71

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    I *think* half the problem is that when peep's join BB they get over excited and go on a posting rampage...when they should have read Forum Guidelines - PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING .. and yep I was one of them...so over exicted and over whelmed by the big big world of the internet that i didnt.

    I learnt along the way...opened my eyes and ears to listen to what others had experienced. I think that it helped me be a better mother...allowed me to be myself and not the sheep I had become due to society. It made me sit back and think before jumping into anything...yep maybe I over annalysed alot but atleast I was getting the information I needed and still do

    SO dame you BB I there for blame you, the community for making me dame well think!!!!

  18. #72

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    I am glad BB makes people think.

    I also understand some of what Maya expressed.
    When women here want to celebrate their gorgeous, natural births, or their breastfeeding experiences, or their 'attachment' parenting and are told they are 'making' other people feel guilty, then that makes me sad Because BB was the place you could once come to in order to do just that.
    I have felt like that a bit lately too. This ethos of "making" others feel a certain way just puzzles me. I feel like a complete freak sometimes for speaking of my thoughts around birth because they go against the grain. When I didn't feel that way before recent times. I'm not sure if that's because things have changed or why its so. But I have felt that feeling I will agree with Maya there.

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