Why is it we blame the community and not the people or better yet ourselves?

[Liz]

I know.. pretty funny. She ended up being one of 'those' that left in a huff I think. Blaming the community once again! haha.

I think it was then I played around with the ignore list and discovered that you still see that that person has posted, but can't see the content. And I knew then it would never work for me cos I would just HAVE to know what they've written LOL. I'd constantly click on "view post" or whatever the option was. No idea if the ignore function is still like that or not.

[Astrolady]

Well for me I hid for cover when BB got more than 50 members on it.
Being an Administrator I feel bad at times cause I seriously don't know who a good majority of you are, and by that I mean I wouldn't know who your kids are ( if you have any ) or even significant others. Then if you have a username change, you've lost me again LOL. As for your personal stories....forget it

I actually had to get other Administrators to explain to me what was going these last few days. I came onto BellyBelly and to me it felt like a train wreck. I wanted to look but just keep on moving as well. For the majority of train wrecks that is exactly what I do. The ever gorgeous Admin team know that and as I have said to them before, they are so much better at putting together a nicely worded post to get stuff back onto track, than what I am.

You don't see me posting on the forums that much, as seriously I feel like I am just butting in. So yes looking inside I only have myself to blame. I am done with kids, pregnancy, breast feeding and I don't get into debates as I have enough to cope with in everyday life. So what's left?

I don't hate the BB community for it. I hate myself for letting myself get to that stage. But you all keep me busy in your own unique ways

[Kazbah]

I'm probably one of the few people that do.

That's only cause you're one of the few who know how to do it!!

[Catastrophic]

Not at all Rouge - I have been wondering how to use the ignore function for quite some time - and now i know it'll be getting a work out - just to stop my blood from boiling and make my BB experiance better.

And yes Liz it still works like that :-) I like it like that as it gives me more self control then :-)

I think we blame the community because it is easier - point blank - the easiest option is to blame a hwole, then to actually sit down with yourself and think about why certain people make you feel the way that you feel or more so why YOU react the way you do. Who wants to blame themselves? Much easier to blame a community.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

I definitely get different 'vibes' from BB at different times. For the past couple of weeks its kinda felt dead to me, nothing exciting happening (from my perspective), just the same old posts. Then yeah, the train wreck of the past few days. And slowly it's turning into the lovefest that always happens after the trainwrecks. All in a cycle

I hafta admit to blaming the community as a whole sometimes. For instance, I find it very overwhelming and confronting when I've said something in a thread and suddenly everyone's on top of me, saying I'm wrong. More often than not, I've used the wrong word and mean something completely different to what I've said, but it's like I'm drowning and can't catch my breath, and I feel like I'm not given the chance to explain myself. This has only happened twice that I can think of, and if I start to get that feeling from threads these days, I just won't even bother posting. It's not that I think my opinion isn't worthy of being in the thread, it's more that I'm scared of the backlash. I know its totally my issue, and I know that when it happens it's not anyones intention to beat me down.

With the ignore list, I've only ever considered it for, I think 3 members? As in truly, deeply considered it. I've never done it though, because I kinda feel that I would be giving up on myself and my chance for personal growth, and that if someone's annoying me that much that I need to 'ignore' them, there's something wrong in me y'know? After butting some SERIOUS head with one member, I was ready to ignore her, but I ended up PMing my response rather than putting it on the board, and made a smartass comment about knowing she wouldn't care how her posts were coming across but I had to tell her anyway - and she was genuinely upset that her posts were coming across that way. I wouldn't say we're best of friends now, but I don't cringe when I see her name, so that's a plus I guess

I also tend to hold myself to a MUCH higher standard than I would hold anyone else, be it on BB or anywhere else. For instance Rouge, when you say you have an ignore list to preserve your sanity, I agree with you and I think it's a great idea. But I would never let myself have one, because if it were me it's immaturity, whereas if it's anyone else, it's completely justified.

This is a very interesting thread Rouge And FWIW Astro, I miss you around the boards! I used to be kinda scared of you, but having you as a FB friend has been excellent for making me realise you're just a person like anyone else. In the words of a wise ex mod - 'Mods are people too'

[Pandora]

Hmm. I've been debating whether to post in this thread or not. I missed a lot of the hoo-har of late, particularly over the weekend. I was aware of something in the water, but hadnt read threads, etc.

I most definitely dont blame the community, Im much more childish than that. I blame specific members. I dont have an ignore list, because I like to think that people all have something to offer, and while I might not agree with everything, most or even anything someone has to say, I still respect their right to have that opinion. I might choose not to read it but i dont want it hidden. And sometimes when I feel like I need a good laugh or am feeling particularly uninspired, I like to read about it and hope to be surprised, enlightened or at the least amused.

[CharlieBrownGirl]

"Why is it we blame the community and not the people or better yet ourselves?"

This question has been circulating in my head since I've seen it pop up.
The reason? I think it relates to my work and thinking of Bath's ( it was Bath) thread on keyhole judgement.

Situations occur and subsequently gets media attention, and we're (the agency I work for) gets a media and public beating. The whole story is unknown and often remains that way to the public (for privacy reasons). I have yet to read a media coverage stating the obstacles preventing the situation occurring or acknowleding the primary causes / individuals at blame.

My point??? I think as a society as a whole there will always be blinkers on preventing the bigger picture to be seen or understood. Reflecting on our reactions to a situation allows for personal development, compassion and understanding. Not too long ago I received an email re: 90/10 Principles by Stephen Covey "you really do not have any control over 10% of what happens. The other 90% is determined by your reaction"

My favorite quote at the moment was discovered in Sept issue of 'The Notebook':
"Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional" Chili Davis

I think I can go to sleep now I've put that down
Night

[Trillian]

I haven't posted in any of these types of threads of late, because I think personal growth is just that - personal - and telling the world about it kinda ****es me off. We shouldn't have to justify ourselves to anyone to the point where we have to publicly own anything.

But what I will say in this thread, is that being a long time member - nearly 5 years I have been here - I have seen many, many members come and go and I will see many more members come and go before I'm done too. Some have gone in spectacular fashion, others just drifted away without saying anything. What we need to remember is, that this 'community' has grown from just over 2000 members when I joined in 2005, to the nearly 20,000 that it is today and there is always gonna be a ****fight somewhere. Some of it slips by unnoticed for the most part - those in buddy threads clash from time to time but they usually work it out and move on. Others are glaringly public. When you have so many people from all walks of life, it isn't always going to be 'happy happy joy joy' and often people can get really hurt. I understand why the 'community' is blamed for this. This community has an ethos, which by and large is supported by the majority of people, in essence at least if they don't practice it themselves. So when a person has an issue with a general thing relating to something that affects the entire community, then yes, the community is suitably blamed for that. However there will always be individuals who will clash with others for all sorts of reasons and it is up to them to decide to act like adults should act and either kiss and make up or agree to disagree and stay out of each others way - just as you would in real life.

I know it has been said a gazillion times that how you choose to react to a situation is up to you, and that is largely true, but does that mean we should just sit idly and not say anything when something does annoy us? When people feel like they are being silenced, then that is what breeds dissent and unhappiness, because they feel they cannot say anything without fear of retaliation and it is when it is held inside you and not dealt with, that it blows up and gets ugly. And that comes back to a personal reflection issue where we need to step back and look at the big picture. I get what the point of the message was and I see it a lot on other forums, especially smaller forums, where 1 person has the balls to stand up for what they believe and they are hunted like a dog until they leave. I know that some will say that they are just protecting their community, but are they really? it's like cancer, eating away all that is good about the community. And I don't want to see that happen here.

[Liz]

OK... giving the 'look at ourselves' bit some thought.

I do still think it's reasonable to lay blame on a community as opposed to individuals or even ourself. However, if I started to realise the common element in these narky situations is me, that I find myself involved in upsetting arguments all the time no matter which forum I'm in, then for sure, self analysis is very much needed. But I don't think it's necessary to feel comfortable/happy in every environment, so I do think blame can lie with a community, or a school, or a club.. or whatever. Not saying it's intentional tho or that the community has done anything wrong... just the way it is sometimes.. that the particular environment and the way it is run/handled doesn't agree with us.

Definitely agree tho that our reactions say a lot about us and how we're feeling about things. And like Inanna said, how we feel one day can change by the next. So I try not to define people by their reactions... but I sometimes do a lot of sighing when I see the same thing over and over again hehe.

I tend not to have emotional reactions to most threads myself.. I'm a bit of a facts and figures kind of person, so I usually look at the bigger picture with birth or breastfeeding discussions, rather than just the anecdotal stuff or my personal experience. I think the thing I get frustrated with mostly on BB is the need to tip toe and be ultra-PC, and to qualify each statement with some sort of disclaimer which then ultimately softens the message being conveyed. But then maybe that's something I need to work on myself..

[LimeSlice]

I think the thing I get frustrated with mostly on BB is the need to tip toe and be ultra-PC, and to qualify each statement with some sort of disclaimer which then ultimately softens the message being conveyed. But then maybe that's something I need to work on myself..

:yeahthat:
This is something I have struggled greatly with, but there are times when the culture of the community forces me to be overly sensitive, which is not who I am, nor how I would behave in a face to face situation with people I know on a personal level - which would be where I would discuss most issues similar to those I discuss here.
So I think the familiarity of the community, when in actually fact we do not know one another (for the most part) and we aren't all personal friends...but yet we often know so much about each other, very personal things too, that the familiarity causes us to treat each other and speak in heated or debatable situations, in a way that is more akin to how we would speak with long time friends, family, etc. That over-familiarity can lead to people being blunter than usual, omit all the fluffy hugs and smilies, and coupled with the lack of physical expression, make our messages much harsher and more readily coloured, by the readers own prejudices, issues and moods...

ITMS

[Liz]

Argh - this thread isn't letting me sleep! LOL.

hmmm, I'm not sue that I agree that BB has changed a great deal. I think that people change and they assume that the change is with BB when it's actually with them.

Just thinking about this. I think BB has changed. Not all of the changes are permanent tho, and as someone said recently, the angst seems to be seasonal LOL (maybe the mods could pull some stats on how many padlocks are used and the phase of the moon? LOL)

But we've seen in the past some almighty blowouts with permanent ripple effects. As numbers have grown, like Trillian said, this brings in more people from more walks of life, which will also bring more conflict. Some of this conflict results in new moderation rules (this in itself can get people's backs up even tho the intentions are always good and in keeping with BB's philosphy)

Often you can feel how subdued and how careful everyone is with their words after some big debates/conflicts and this can go on for a while.. hence the extra PC stuff that goes on these days.

Sometimes we see much loved and respected members leave. I obviously don't know the exact circumstances of some of these but something must have changed for such regular, involved members to consider leaving. Yes it probably does lie with them as well or else a lot MORE regulars would have left as well hehe. But I think it's only natural that this community would change and evolve with it's own growth and the coming and going of members.

There seems to be a stable core element of the BB community that I don't think are going anywhere though, and they are what keep the 'unchanging' side of BB going throughout all the other changes, so the essence of BB always still shines through these foggy patches. So in that sense BB hasn't changed. I just really don't remember all this sensitivity and political correctness back in the days when I joined.

Not really sure there's a point to my post, or even if it makes sense. I kinda just had to get it out of my head so I can sleep LOL. Switching my brain off now. Night!

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I've been away for a bit and am glad I missed this. It is a shame when people want support and get alternative views, just as when people want alternative views they can get nowt but love. It's the difficulty of on-line relationships. Now for the conga line...

*sings* Chocolate cake and vodKA! Chocolate cake and vodka! Nah nah nah nah - DRINK! Nah nah nah nah - DRINK!

[Phteven]

I think the thing I get frustrated with mostly on BB is the need to tip toe and be ultra-PC, and to qualify each statement with some sort of disclaimer which then ultimately softens the message being conveyed. But then maybe that's something I need to work on myself..

I get that but the problem is that if you don't people take it personally. That's not really the fault of BB is it? If I say that statistically YXZ has been proven to be far more beneficial than ABC, for some reason there will be an immediate reaction from people who did ABC to say I did ABC and I'm fine and I'm sick of the XYZ people making me feel bad. If you* slip up and use the collective you sometimes that's enough to flip the switch. There can also be a fine line between bluntness and rudeness/tactlessness and whilst I'm all for straight talk I don't like it when things fall on the wrong side of that line.
For mods it can be even more difficult because sometimes people assume that there is some knid of party line and that our personal opinions are an expression of BB orthodoxy. Which is kind of funny because if people took the time to get to know our stories they would know that what ever the issue there has probably been a mod on each side of it.

*the collective you

[Jellyfish]

I could be completely wrong but I think people do hold individuals responsible for their hurt, angst, frustration etc, it is only the community that is seen to be blamed because to name names publicly could be construed as targeting or attacking which is disallowed and wouldn't exactly be nice, you know?

[Traveller]

I have been away for 4 days, and hence have missed most of what has happened over the weekend. But here is my 2c anyway.

A community is merely a collection of personalities. One does not make the community, we all do. And if one leaves a bad taste in my mouth I try to use that as a chance to reflect on what it is in me that is so affected by that person or statement. Blaming the community is like blaming the room for the stain on the carpet. The carpet can be changed, we can add a rug, or we can ignore it. But the room will stay the same. Ditto with our community. The BB ethos is one of support and discussion. At times those discussions may upset us. We can create new ones, we can ignore them, but we cannot change the community because it is bigger than any one of us.

Does that make sense, or have I been married to a carpet layer for too long

[Liz]

But it's possible to not like that room because of the stain on the carpet There's only so many stains on carpet you can ignore without it bugging you every time you're sitting in that room. It's not always our place to change it or fix it. Which is why I think it's ok if people feel the need to say "I don't like that room, there's too many stains on the carpet that I don't like, I'm leaving". However, if they're super duper fussy and even the tiniest spot on the carpet in a room bugs them, and they flit around having issues with spots in every room... then they've got issews that they need to look into as to why they can't overlook even the smallest spots. And further on that... if they choose to continue sitting in that room... then they shouldn't keep complaining about the stains. They should own ( ) that they have chosen to sit in what they consider a stain filled room.

Why oh why did you put this carpet analogy in my head? LOL! See now I'm thinking of the people that are responsible for keeping the carpet clean and making sure other people keep it clean. You could easily take issue with them too if you're really disgruntled by that stain LOL.

See I see vBulletin - the physical forum as the room. The people/community is responsible for behaving inside that room and keeping it clean. If people feel it's got too many smudges on walls and marks on the carpet, well that can be their issue entirely, or there could well be merit in their claim. No one is blameless. I don't think you can say you can't blame the community at all.

Ok... i'm making my own head hurt now haha.

[Mum2SweetCs]

I havent read all the responses nor do i know what happened on the weekend. I think i am oblivious to all this (either that or i have selective reading!) LOL

I've had a few threads that caused a reaction with opposing opinions (one being the private vs public debate). It didnt bother me one bit that people went against my opinion as it is their own personal opinion. All i know is that the world is not black and white and when people voice their opinions and you don't like it, step away. Surely you can think about it a little and see where they are coming from but I dont believe it is worth the energy to get totally worked up about it and lose sleep!

Especially with forums, chats, FB, everything can be taken out of context so easily because we are missing all the body language that comes with face to face communication, so you cant blame to community but perhaps how you interpret the context and tone of it.

With all these supposed "negativity" that went around, if it was the community how come i am not feeling that BB has become a sad place?

I still get my lovely support from the ttc group and still feel like its a lovely place to come to (I refresh every 5 mins still!)

[Glamourcide]

Arrrg, Liz, gotta spread the love, but my head just exploded at the awesomeness of your last post