Controversial thread : Sex after baby

[MrsBexie]

I also am one who NEEDS sex, I love it, I need it, I want it more than my husband!!! I have to convince him to have sex with me sometimes!! LOL...

And N2L, if he did not want to have sex with me and was only doing it out of obligation, I wouldn't want him to do it. I'd rather not get sex then have him hate it and not want to do it...

[Jakabella]

Due to M/C's and bleeding during both my pregs there has been no sex while pregnant at all. DH is fine with that - and no he has not gone off and found it somewhere else - like ppl are insinuating that men will do.
We have talked about it - neither of us is comfortable with it while preg and the issues that we have. Doesnt mean that our relationship is any worse for wear! We can still be intimate - and we can BOTH please ourselves when we need. So yes my POOR Dh has had no action for nearly 9 months now. Shoot me.

WE get back into the swing of things when the bub has arrived - but I will be NO MEANS be laying back and taking one for the team just because the baby in out. And I would definatly NOT want DH to just have sex with me coz I wanted it. I would rather we both be in the mood and take our time and enjoy it together.

[Roryrory]

I would rather we both be in the mood and take our time and enjoy it together.

Totally agree. I just think that sometimes women are prone to being so closed to the very notion that they don't allow themselves to even consider getting near the mood. Hence the reason for my OP. As someone said earlier, there is sometimes a sense that a "good mother outs baby above all so has no time for anything else". When in fact having both mum and dad happy and shaving good sex can actually be good for baby in the long run if mum and dad stay happily married.

[nothing2lose]

I'm with you guys. Personally I could not stand to think someone (esp. my partner) was having sex with me when they didnt really want to. It would make me feel totally disrespected.

[raffy]

Just putting it out there, DF and I just dtd, he was then all smoochy and cuddly (therefore we both are satisfied with our preference of intimacy) he then helped me wash bottles, empty the dishwasher and feed animals and now hes sleeping like a baby
I agree, I definately wouldn't want to par take in sexual activities if it was only one sided. And therefore i wouldn't do that to my DF either, if i don't want to do it, i won't do it and that is that

[Glamourcide]

Ok, so where's the balance point then between his needs and her needs? If it's ok for a man to go without for 6 months when there's a physical issue, why isn't it also ok for a man to go without when there's an equally compelling emotional/psychological issue? I'm just not buying the line that sex is so totally integral to a man's wellbeing. Not saying it's necessarily ok when sex is absent from the relationship for extended period of time, but there is a lot more to both intimacy and the balance of power in a marriage than whether you're getting it on x times per week.

Very well said, MD, and I just wanted to clarify that I personally consider emotional/psychological issues to be just as valid as physical issues - but they are also issues that, like physical ones, a couple can seek help with, itms.
In my own post, I was speaking more from the perspective of someone who has friends who have no physical OR emotional/psychological issues post-baby - they truly just take their bloke for granted and think they're absolutely entitled to expect him to go to work, pay the bills, cook dinner x nights a week and entertain the kids, take the Mrs out to dinner once a fortnight to wine and dine her... and then he still can't get more than a peck on the cheek because *she* 'doesn't feel like it tonight, darling'. I think that's pretty unfair on both of them, tbh!
I find I'm tired ALL the time. Whether that's because I stay up too late, or some undiagnosed medical issue, I don't know. But when I collapse into bed at midnight, close my eyes and then feel DH grab my backside, the first thought that runs through my head is, 'Argh, noooo, I want sleeeeep!'... but I really have no reason to say no when he's been at work since 7am and been on his feet all day while I've wrangled kids and housework (stressful, yes, but nowhere near as physically taxing as DH's job). So I do my best to send him off to sleep with a smile on his face, even if it's just rubbing his back the way he likes while DTD. I just think a lot of other mums that are in the same boat as me, but deny their partner sex purely because it's too much of a chore for them and they don't think they should have to do it unless they're raring to go, should try giving it a shot and they might grow to like it - or at least their OH might be a little more willing to help out with bathing the kids of a night or picking his dirty towel up off the floor if he's getting 'rewarded' for it!


ETA: The poster who mentioned the Bettina Arndt article? Yes, I agreed with her, even though I got lynched for it amongst my friends lol

[Maruschke]

Hmm... I will share...

When I realise it's been a week since I felt up for it, and I realise that I still don't feel up for it, I know I need to do something. Take myself away for 10 minutes, refocus, and get in the mood, in order to reunite with my husband, reconnect, and do something for him that I know he loves.

I don't lay back and think of england either and I don't be passive... but I do often need to make a conscious decision to get in the mood, for him.

No, I wouldn't have sex without being in the mood first.

KWIM?

[suse]

To be honest - it goes both ways, and I think that to equate it only to sex generalises the complexity of a relationship's dynamics. A relationship is about commitment - to each other. That commitment might mean that one partner forgoes something they enjoy, or even need, in order to strengthen the relationship as a whole. And whilst they forgo one thing, their partner may contribute in another way which balances it out.

Rory, so whilst I do get what you are saying, and agree about the importance of sex in a relationship and how rebuilding a sexual relationship after kids actually helps to reaffirm the relationship as a whole, from personal experience I know that it's not as simple as 'just do it'. In the past I've had issues with painful sex - since having kids, and breastfeeding, the act of penetration is literally impossible. There's no amount of time, stimulation or artificial assistance that can make penetration anything other than excruciatingly painful, and the hormonal loss of libido doesn't help either. The only option I have is oestrogen pessaries, which will most likely reduce my supply. Both my partner and I are in this relationship for the long haul - our children having access to breastmilk is of primary importance right now. 'Right now' equates, in our case, to over three years, but we are both reminded of the level of commitment each has to the relationship by other contributions. And because of it, we have to work really, really hard to affirm our commitment to each other because we don't have the easy, endorphin releasing fall-back of sex. And that's not to say that we don't get by sexually with other things, but the simple fact of the matter is that as well as a significant limitation in the kind of acts I can share in that don't cause pain, I have no libido whatsoever, so me achieving physical pleasure is pretty difficult. Until that changes (ie: I stop breastfeeding), sex is going to be a pretty one-sided equation. We accept that.

There's a great big world of difference between getting into the habit of turning down sex almost by rote because of tiredness and the demands of kids, which I agree can be a sign that the relationship in general is being neglected, and the very real physical and hormonal difficulties associated with post-birth sex, which you mention, but I think play a much greater importance to what you have alluded to. But even though I know you were not intending your suggestion that 'if you love your partner and your relationship, you'll have sex' to refer to someone in my situation, which comes under the 'disclaimer' situations you mentioned, the implication behind your suggestion still seems borderline insulting - to both partners. What loving partner would want to satisfy their own sexual needs when that satisfaction causes pain to the person they love? Is it any more OK to satisfy those needs if their partner was simply not in the mood?

I agree with you that there's a real need to make an effort to rekindle a relationship after the huge dynamic shift that is a child, but feel that there's so much more to doing this than just sex.

[nothing2lose]

...or at least their OH might be a little more willing to help out with bathing the kids of a night or picking his dirty towel up off the floor if he's getting 'rewarded' for it!

Glamourcide, I often agree with a lot of what you say, but please, please, please tell me that you are being ironic when you use the term "reward"....

I'll admit I am an aging feminist but I dont understand the notion that men "help" with housework and child rearing? Surely it is their equal responsibility. And it certainly isnt something they should be rewarded for with sex, like a child who does their weekly chores for some pocket money....

And before anyone says anything, I totally understand and accept the notion that a person (of any gender) who feels supported and not totally fatigued is more likely to want to engage in intercourse. And I also understand that roles and responsibilities are different in each household. I would just hope that no-one on BB feels that THEY are responsible for the house and children and can only expect to be "helped" by their partners.

[Roryrory]

there's a real need to make an effort to rekindle a relationship after the huge dynamic shift that is a child, but feel that there's so much more to doing this than just sex.

For sure Suse, for sure. Like I said in the OP, this thread was sparked a a particular conversation mum and I were having today. So sex happened to be the focus of it

And that's why it's about letting yourself start to get into the mood, which I think often (I for one, anyway) women sometimes to not do.

Sex is only one part of the equation, it's just the part of the equation highlighted for the purposes of this topic. Basically if I can convince one woman to look at her hubby/partner and think about DTD and maybe actually give him a nod and a wink and enjoy herself and see a little bit of a glint in his (and her) eyes in the morning, then my job is done.

Again girls, check out the mentally sexy link - its in a blog by a stay at home dad my DH knows - very funny

[raffy]

Rory, you helped me! I'm one of those annoying people that sometimes don't even bother trying to talk myself into it, even though I no it will be worth it in the end. But after reading this thread and rejecting DF for the last week or so I was motivated to do it and needless to say we both enjoyed it

[Roryrory]

once i can get my girl to sleep i just might o the same raffy lol!!

[MrsBexie]

me to girls!! Motivated me... lol,

[entreat]

I think it's about women being fed this idea that they're entitled to 'have it all' - a man who provides for them, cooks, cleans up the house, rubs their bloody feet or back for them after HE'S been at work all day, 'respects' them (ie, is under the thumb and does what he's told, when he's told to) and then has to go whistling for a bit of physical intimacy because she is 'too tired', 'too sore', 'isn't in the mood' or a million other lame excuses for not showing a bit of appreciation for all that her bloke does for her and the kids.

You guys must have awesome husbands. If mine did all that for me, I'd probably be putting out too! Truth be told, he'll do it - if I can't cope any more. But that's not really a situation condusive to romance (or even throwing a leg over, because romance is far too tiring!) (gee my DH is sounding a bit awful right now... not true! but he's still not getting any!)

wtf's wrong with you when you don't want to for months and months on end (without a medical reason)?

Sleep deprivation IS a medical reason. WTF's wrong with putting your own physical requirements (sleep) ahead of your partners sexual ones. an hour of extra sleep, to me, is worth more than the goofy smile he gets on his face post-coitus.

[nothing2lose]

Lol at goofy smile. I will now go to sleep imagining entreat's hubby as Alfred E Nuemann from Mad magazine!

[entreat]

It's not that different, N2L!!!

Having had said my bit about it all, I will bow out of this thread with the intention of, at some point this week, dtd for both of us, not just for DH. Because, dammit, I want a goofy smile too!

[Glamourcide]

Glamourcide, I often agree with a lot of what you say, but please, please, please tell me that you are being ironic when you use the term "reward"....
I'll admit I am an aging feminist but I dont understand the notion that men "help" with housework and child rearing? Surely it is their equal responsibility. And it certainly isnt something they should be rewarded for with sex, like a child who does their weekly chores for some pocket money....

In a way, n2l, I *do* feel responsible for the house and kids and that I should only expect to be 'helped' because my job is to be the SAHM, while DH's takes him out of the house for 10-14 hours a day (that's just work, no commuting), 5-6 days a week. I don't do anything else, so I do feel that the burden of responsibility when it comes to housekeeping, errands and child-rearing falls on my shoulders - that's my job, that's my chosen career. If I worked outside the home as well, I would certainly expect DH to carry more of the burden of domestic responsibility, but as it stands I think he bears enough weight as it is taking care of pretty much everything other than kids and housework, and I bear just a fraction of what he does on a daily basis, so that's why the divide is 'uneven' in our home.

For the record, my DH is actually a better housekeeper than I am - much tidier and more thorough, and he does help out far more than I expect or ask him to (simply because I'm a bit of a slob and he can't stand the mess so he picks up after me and the kids when I'm feeling too tired or preoccupied with trivial things to bother with it). So sex isn't a 'reward' in our house, but I can understand how it is in some other homes and that's fine by me - you do what works and if the 'compromise' is that a woman gives her husband sex in exchange for a bit of help with domestic duties, and both partners are happy with that arrangement, then who am I to judge?

I guess what I was trying to get at was bringing it back to the concept of 'give and take' on both sides in a relationship. I personally think that lots of aspects in equal relationships are a form of 'bargaining', and it makes sense that when libidos are typically mismatched, that sex can become a bargaining tool on both sides. A lot of women complain that they don't feel like having sex because, as you say, they feel fatigued and unsupported, but I wonder if it's a 'chicken and egg' scenario - is their husband reluctant to do his bit around the house because he resents being denied sex, or is the wife denying sex because she resents being 'on her own' even when he's not at work?
Obviously communication is the factor that needs work here, I'm the first to admit that... but I do think that both parties in a relationship can get a pretty one-sided and biased view of how things are - men complain that they're not getting enough sex and don't try to work out ways to get more, women complain that they simply shouldn't have to bother without suggesting to their partner ways that they could get her in the mood more frequently, kwim? The 'rewards' work both ways, itms.

[Glamourcide]

You guys must have awesome husbands. If mine did all that for me, I'd probably be putting out too! Truth be told, he'll do it - if I can't cope any more. But that's not really a situation condusive to romance (or even throwing a leg over, because romance is far too tiring!) (gee my DH is sounding a bit awful right now... not true! but he's still not getting any!)

Lol Entreat, I have to wonder if such guys actually exist... ha, mine quit with the romantic back rubs about 5 minutes after the POAS came back +ve! I like to think we have a really equal relationship, it's just that our definition of 'equal' would leave some people with mouths gaping... that's okay, they don't need to understand the ins and outs of how we run our lives together because they're not a part of it

Sleep deprivation IS a medical reason. WTF's wrong with putting your own physical requirements (sleep) ahead of your partners sexual ones. an hour of extra sleep, to me, is worth more than the goofy smile he gets on his face post-coitus.

Orrr, from my POV - I can go to bed at midnight, have a quickie and be fast asleep by 12:20... or I can go to bed at midnight and argue for 45 minutes about how I'm really just too tired tonight, babe, can I please just go to sleep and we'll try again tomorrow? And then by the time he gives up, I feel like a cow for dragging it out for so long when I could have just told him, 'Okay, but don't expect fireworks tonight' and had it over with in 15 minutes!
Again, that's just us DH has a habit of treating sex like a sleeping pill anyway so there are nights we DTD even when neither of us is particularly fussed about it - it just helps us both sleep better.

ETA: Hope you get that goofy smile, girl! I actually find that if I don't put up a fuss about it when I'm not into it, DH actually does try to get me off and at least half the time, he's successful... so give it a shot even if he's been a bit of a prat that day and you're generally feeling like there are a thousand things you'd rather be doing - it could just pay off for you both! x

ETA2: And I'm off to take one for the team, ladiieeees I dare all of you who are physically and mentally capable to do the same tonight! Demand satisfaction!