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Thread: Can I bag out other sites??

  1. #37

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    You mean the site administrators Willow? Or the mums?


  2. #38

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    Mums (which I guess includes the site admins but don't get the distinction)...

  3. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimbaz View Post
    Theres so many different views on every aspect of raising kids these days. As Trillian said...there is no right or wrong way. But it comes across that we must all do the same thing with our kids.

    Must have eye contact
    Must not let our kids cry for more then 10 seconds
    Must give solids 6 months
    Must BF (so it seems to me)
    Must hold our babies
    Must do this and that....

    Dont FF
    Dont let you baby cry
    Dont give you child solids until 6 months cos thats what WHO says
    Dont turn your baby seat before 8kg/6 month
    I think the "must" in this bothers me. These are recommendations. And they are founded in research, and in 'preventative' measures. Kim, I'm sorry that you feel your parenting choices are under attack.
    I do agree with the above statements as the ideal, though. And I'd be pretty confident that they are well founded recommendations, and based on much research. (Particularly on food and the car seat. Sleep is a little more subjective.)
    Even so, what bothers me, as others have mentioned, about the things mentioned on that website is that it could very well cause people to doubt themselves. I think advice is great if it is presented as such. "Advice" like , 'Holding is for feeding, the floor is for play and the cot is for sleep' may lead people to believe that they are doing the wrong thing by cuddling their baby while playing, or cuddling to sleep. New parents are so vulnerable, particularly mothers who are having to deal with hormonal changes as well. They need to be told to follow their instincts. And if they ASK for advice, then they should be offered suggestions and not instructions, IMO.

  4. #40

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    Its not always information that is easily attainable. How many people know exactly where to look on the WHO website for the new BF baby growth charts? It isn't the easiest info to find and often its just via word of mouth that we find out stuff like this. But I think that if you are going to run a site that is providing information to mums, both new and old, then it is your duty to make sure that the advice is sound. Even if that site is pro-smacking/controlled crying/gentle or attachment parenting, then you still need to back that up with good, solid unbiased information, not just anecdotal items. It does make me wonder though considering the nature of who runs that site what their intentions are and how much of a vested interest do they have in it.

  5. #41

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    I actually meant how many BB mums had read this 'reasearch'.

    I see a lot of vague references to it but wonder how many have actually read it.

  6. #42
    paradise lost Guest

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    Willow i have read a great deal on child development and as such i know where my limits are and WHY i'm doing what i do with DD. For me that is the key to me feeling like a good parent. What i do might not beget immediate or visible results, but i know WHY i'm doing them. I don't smack because i don't believe for normal children it is helpful. I do however know that rough handling can actually HELP some children with certain handicaps because it helps their brain to re-connect to the body (i'm not talking about beating, i'm talking about the sort of action one would employ on the back of a choking child).

    Parenting is a very individual set of challenges. What works for one child really WON'T work for them all. I had a friend staying this past weekend and her 2 year old is SO different to mine. Our parenting styles are similar. Our children are not.

    "Gentle" is subjective. To me it is not gentle to give a newborn who is trying to sleep eye contact, but others have obviously found within their families it works great and everyone is happy. To me it is not gentle to provide no routine to a child's day because it doesn't allow them to feel secure in their rythmn, but for some families it works. I know people who won't let their kids choose which clothes to wear and people who let their kid play xbox all day at "homeschool" because "it's their life" even when the child is 8 years old! What's good for one is not good for all. The same can be said of so many of the choices parents are forced to make every day.

    Do you know my DP often doesn't give me eye contact in bed. When we are physically close like that just one look into my eyes tips him over the edge and "it's all over". His avoidance of my loving, passionate gaze is the biggest compliment he could pay me. Love is shown in many ways. The way the love is shown is not a useful measure for an outsider to guage how much love is there.

    Bx

  7. #43

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    Willow,

    I read heaps when I had my younger kids - without family nearby it was the only way I could prepare myself. But in the end, I followed my instincts a lot.

    I'm recently had the need to read quite a lot on secure attachment and responsive parenting, thanks to uni and a uni assignment I was researching. It was interesting so I undertook a lot of my own research for and against (and I'm still going in between other assignments). It's all in hindsight as Charlie is now 2, but was amazed at the amount of studies out there regarding this stuff.

  8. #44

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    Willow, I read it as I hear about different things. It isn't always easy to find good information off the back of what someone says about a topic, but it is up to us to go looking for it as it isn't always given to us by our MCHN, GP's etc. I like to know that what I talk about or suggest to someone else is backed up by a sound source too. I have changed by ideals about parenting so much in the 7 years I've been doing this caper and I am still learning as I go, being a parent isn't a finite thing.

    And I guess it is up to us that do know where to find things to pass that info onto others so they can use it and pass it on too.

  9. #45
    paradise lost Guest

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    Sushee did you encounter the distinction between responsive parenting and sentimental parenting? Bit o/t but just interested.

    Willow your vague references remark made me LOL - for me it's the "average worldwide BF relationship is 4 years" nonsense that drives me mad! IT'S NOT TRUE! Lol...

  10. #46

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    Bec - LOL! I know what you mean

  11. #47

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    i have tears *****ling my eyes reading everyones posts.

    ren hon, I am with you. If I didnt look into my darling mateauz eyes when he needed me to, I would have felt like I was taking away the strength he needed to fight the horrible infections in his body and he probably wouldnt be here now. I would never have forgiven myself for taking away those moments with my precious baby. they are moments of uncondition love between a mum and child that can never be replaced. They are bonding moments for both.

    When my little man cries I not only look into his eyes, I cuddle him as close as I can and tell him that I love him until he settles, bb in mouth and all!

    What really sadens me the most...my mum tell's me that when he cries to leave him cause ' its good for his lungs as its helping them to develop properly...hmmmmm NO COMMENT!!!!

  12. #48

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    I just think everyone in this thread is RIGHT, even though some opinions are at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

    I had a bubba who was overwhelmed from birth. The extreme type of "unsettled" baby, I don't think he stopped screaming and wriggling until about 4 months. We learn to pick up on our babies crying, hungry, tired etc, but there is another and it's "stop the world I want to get off" one.

    The response needed for this cry was - no eye contact, no singing, no rocking, no noise. It took a VERY long time for me to recognise that. All the rocking and patting was doing his head in. In the end I had to sit next to his cot, facing away and have my hand on his back. My natural instinct was different, almost going against my grain, but this is what he needed from me.

    My other children were different, needed soothing and singing etc -and they were both a hell of a lot easier, even if it meant having to wear them all day. DS hated the sling, too much movement!

    We know all children are different, we know they need individual attention, different strokes for different folks.
    I just want to make it clear I don't advocate the "controlled" techniques, my first rule of parenting has always been "If the baby cries, pick it up", and my next one is "listen to your baby and listen to yourself. If we were taught that FIRST, we'd all feel alot better.
    Last edited by Lulu; April 19th, 2008 at 09:52 PM.

  13. #49

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    The problem is sites like that (and the government's parenting site is also bad for this) but they are big corporate/governent sites which reek of 'quality/recommendation' (iykwim) are advocating one way to do things to fix certain problems. No-one here is bagging anyone's choices and why should it matter to me - I don't have to live with your kids - you do. So you need to do what's right. It just makes me cross that naive people looking for desperate help are going to read that one way and think there are no other options if it doesn't work. Like Pinky has found, she works with mothers who think their babies doesn't love them anymore as the babies don't give eye contact back. One mother distressed that her child went as far to stop seeking her for comfort and went to their sibling instead... so there is much proof/evidence - the people picking up the pieces see it every day. And thats not to say this will happen for everyone but this is what happens when advice goes bad.

    And it's interesting because you only need to read past threads like the car seat debate in which some people posting in this very thread have done a similar thing of saying, 'Oh I wouldn't do that/you shouldn't do that.' Just because it relates to a parenting method why should we not be able to say we wouldn't do it? You can always ignore the thread, apparently the ignore thread button has disappeared with the recent upgrade but I will put it back so people can not feel attacked (which I do not think has happened in here). Certainly no-one has actually reported any posts anyway. I'd hope we can all be grown ups and have a grown up convo anyway without this turning into a huge debate. So what if people don't do what you do - as they always say, take it with a grain of salt and do what works for you.
    Last edited by BellyBelly; April 19th, 2008 at 09:31 PM.
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team and many wonderful members who have been so supportive since 2003.

  14. #50
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    Kelly that proof you just cited is anecdotal but from a different point of view and is no more scientific than anything else.

    The initial site this was about DID NOT SAY NO EYE CONTACT. It said that reducing eye contact during wakeful periods at night could help a child to get off to sleep by preventing them getting over stimulated. There IS scientific evidence to back this up, just as there is scientific evidence to show that NEVER giving eye contact causes disassociative disorders and attachment issues in children.

    I kind of agree with the point that the other sites are only offering one way, but then so is BB; you offer an alternative way. They are as much an alternative to you as you are to them. And yes, it sucks that that naive people will go to either place and think the way they find there is the only way, but there is a shortage of places which offer advice on ALL the ways, and i suppose ultimately parenting is a learning curve and people will pay for their naivety and learn from it.

    Lots of people say "i wish i'd known..." about parenting choices, but just as many, when you tell them something that doesn't fit in with the way they think is "right" don't want to hear it. If the authors of the Science of Parenting wrote a new book tomorrow about how actually they were wrong and smacking IS good for kids and the WHO retracted the statements about BFing and said FFing was as good or better those of us who choose to BF and not smack probably wouldn't change our ways. It's nice to find some "evidence" to back up what we are choosing to do anyway, but anyone can do that. Want to AP and BF - the WHO and Dr Sears will back you up. Want to beat your kids with plumbing hose - the Pearls and the NoGreaterJoy website will tell you why it's great and how it works. Lots of doctors have written lots of books and lots of "natural" 3rd world mothers with wildly varying parenting habits haven't read any of them. The right way is the way that feels right to the individual family.

  15. #51

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    The right way is the way that feels right to the individual family.
    Thats what we're all saying here. We all agree.
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team and many wonderful members who have been so supportive since 2003.

  16. #52

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    I am in agreeance with everyone - its what feels right for you and your baby. I never stated what was right or wrong, just what I feel im in agreeance. no one has the right to say if your wrong or right...its personal choice.

    As I said in my past post...I had tears from reading everyones posts...its amazing in my eyes to see what works for one doesnt work for the other.

    It what makes us all completely different and unique.

    The place would a very boring world if we were all in agreeance. We should except that others have different points of view and listen with our ears and block out our own thoughts for a second to what others are saying aswell before jumping up and let everyone know what we think.

    We might actaully learn a little if we did so, even if it was just an insight into what the person believes in.

  17. #53
    ~Belinda~ Guest

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    I am guilty!!! I have always looked into Madeleine's eyes, I don't talk with her though if she wakes at 3am for a feed (which she doesn't do very often, mostly sleeps through). Ooooh I love my daughter so much, she even sleeps with us and cuddles in with Mummy

  18. #54

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    Another one here who is deeply saddened by the sheer number of parents who are being fed this info in antenatal class MCHN etc. When DS was not sleeping through the night at 6mths I was bombarded with CC, and "settling techniques"

    While I often close my eyes when putting my babies to sleep my face is still turned towards them and there is nothing so precious as watching you baby slowly fall asleep looking back at you.

    My favourite parts of the day are gently putting my kids to sleep, lying down with them or gently rocking them it is the most beautiful and calming part of everyday for all of us.

    As for the comment on holding is for feeding, floor for play etc, perhaps this is the reason for the increase in flat heads in little babies! Both my babies have spent their awake time in slings, in my arms and on the floor with me

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