Homebirth General Discussion #20

Congratulations Ozstar! That is wonderful, beautiful news! Enjoy those precious newborn snuggles.

Eeek! I can't believe I'm up next. I know it says August, but I'm actually due late July (but will probably end up with an early August bub). I know I haven't been very active in this thread, but I'm sure as I gear up for the birth I will be ;).

Hubby and I have organised a weekend away this coming weekend. First weekend away without kids - so 5-6 years since we've been away on our own. Our last hurrah before bubba arrives.

Congratulations OzStar!!

CONGRATULATIONS OZ!!!

:happyforyou:

what a speedy birth! I guess she was just waiting on her daddy to get home! did you suspect anything while he was away?! I was a bit concerned that he was away so close the Big Event...so stoked that he made it lol.

Bella: ahh I am a bit jealous lol. I seem to take longer with each pregnancy. i have no idea how much i put on or anything as i dont have any scales but i do find that it takes me until i am about 12 months PP before i feel more like myself.

Sterla: that baby will be here before you know it! i find once you hit 30 weeks there's some sort of time continuum vortex that you enter and suddenly you are pushing a baby out and its 39 weeks and you're thinking: 'huh? where have i been the last 2 months?' :lol:

meow: wasnt there a movie called 'the face of birth'? i just watch the BOBB ALLLL the time when pg hahaha.

Face of Birth was really good. I watched that when 5 weeks pregnant with DD2 and opened a whole can of new decisions.

Don't ask why I'm lurking here. I just am. I have a huge lady crush on all of you, so, you know, nice to stalk all your gossip in the one place!

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Face of Birth was really good. I watched that when 5 weeks pregnant with DD2 and opened a whole can of new decisions.

Don't ask why I'm lurking here. I just am. I have a huge lady crush on all of you, so, you know, nice to stalk all your gossip in the one place!

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you know what's even weirder? I always think of you as part of the group lol!

Thanks Cas. Tho to be honest, I still have 9kg up from when I got preg with my first, and I am a small person in height and bones, so it is a lot, but I haven't been either not breast feeding or pregnant for nearly 6 years now, so it is hard to know what my real body is like anymore, when not influenced by all of the hormones. But hey, I am happy. I am so grateful for all my blessings. I just have to eat healthy and clean and I won't have guilt...

Meow, how nice! I love my Mw appointments too. I hope you really enjoy the bonding process. I love my Mw. We are friends too. I started to cry at my last pp appointment, cos I got talking to the student Mw, about the only downside of continuity of care, being that the bond you form being quite intense. And that I miss her when I am not pregnant. But I have vowed this time I am gonna make sure we hang out more outside of appointments.

Afm - I think I have thrush! Well more to the point I think Eddie has thrush on his tounge. My Mw thought he had it when we met on Tuesday, but when I asked hubby what he thought, he could see, he said he couldn't see it. I should have insisted he look properly, cos I thought I could see it. Anyway I pulled out a proper torch tonight, cos my boobs are constantly aching and yeah practically his whole tounge is white, and he has a spot on the roof of his mouth. I don't think I can bare to cut out all sugar and do al la natural with coconut oil and bicarbonate etc. so will have to treat with daktarin. Not sure if I need a script? Anyone have any advice? This is my first time treating thrush with a baby. and it is ironic, since I am eating way less sugar now! Gah! Oh I have started using bicarbonate on my boobs for now, and I am going to make sure I change breast pads really frequently. Any other suggestions?

Am I allowed to share a link to my birth slideshow on here?

Not sure Oz and bella no you don't need a script for nilstat, that what we have always used for millions of years on our prem bubs at work.... I've never had to use it at home tho.....

I hope you get the thrush sorted ASAP Bella. So not fun!

I need help!! I'm so confused and sad and stressed. More crap with my MW :( When we met this week we didn't talk about the whole issue I had with the way she told me about the hep A I had and we just had a really good appointment. I had known we would need to revisit it again to clear over the whole thing and ensure we had understood each other's point of view and we were communicating well but I figured there was time.

Anyway, so at the appointment I mentioned I had had two very tiny drops of bright blood (smaller than a millimetre). I hadn't had sex in a while but had just moved house and done a hard yoga class and my pelvis was very sore. Then when she was palpitating my tummy to feel baby I had some acute pain on the upper right side. She thought the pain could be digestive wind through my tummy but could also be an issue with an organ (like gall stones) or a contraction, though I didn't feel any signs of a contraction.

So last night she sent me a text to ask how the pain and bleeding was going. I told her I had one more teeny spot of blood the next day but nothing since and the pain seemed to digestive as it happened again after I ate another not quite ripe nectarine but I hadn't had it again. So she replied that if I wanted she could refer me for an ultrasound to check the placenta and if I was having early cervical dilation. I said I really don't think anything is wrong and I'm happy to wait and see if I have any more bleeding and asked "or is the three drops enough to be concerned?".

She replied with this: "It's always up to you to make the decisions that are right for you in your care :) I'm here as a consultant to you, to listen and provide clinical care and to give you information, and resources and the help support you to keep your pregnancy and birth normal and healthy. Bleeding now at this time in pregnancy can happen on occasion w lovemaking, but is not otherwise normal. It could be many things- many are not a problem, and some could be. I would always let you know if I see something that could be an issue, even if it ends up being just fine. That's why mothers have midwives and doctors adn why we do prenatal care- to keep things normal and healthy as possible and to spot things early when issues arise so we can correct issues early. An ultrasound is the tool used to help identify any issues when a mama has any bleeding in pregnancy. It is less invasive and gives us more information than a vaginal exam, which is the other test that's done to assess spotting or bleeding. That's why I shared that option with you, so you know what your options are and can make informed decisions about your care. I think waiting to see is just fine. If it happens again, or gets worse, or if there is any pain, please let me know right away- those are signs of problems. I'm here to help you and baby to be healthy and well. I do not benefit at all from tests or procedures- and I only recommend them when they are appropriate care"

Aside from the fact that it's a mini-essay it feels like a lecture and I REALLY don't appreciate the condescending tone telling me why women hire midwives. Am I over reacting? The rest of what she said is actually reasonable but I think she blew my question out of the water. She knows having an ultrasound is not a decision I take lightly as I don't even use a doppler so why would I run and have one without many markers for need? I was trying to assess if she had offered it for my peace of mind or if we were already at that point where it's needed. Waiting for more bleeding and/or pain makes MUCH more sense to me. To have one now is major overkill. I'm fine!!

I find it quite triggering, like a doctor trying to power trip me. Do I need to change MWs? It's getting so far along and I'm SO busy that stresses me out big time :(

i would find that wierd. you are not a student, or naive to having children or midwives/homebirth. is it an ass covering exercise (for her to have it in writing what she has told you)? Has she been working as an independent midiwfe long?

i wouldn't necessarily find it that strange in conversation, but to write it all out i do find it wierd.

Have you been able to talk to any women she has birthed with? There were things that i found puzzling about my midwife in pre and post natal appts, but at the birth she was perfect and so 2nd time around i went with her again bc it was at the birth that i wanted someone i could trust and felt safe with.

She hasn't been an IM for a long time, only a few years. And I think she's really finding her feet in the current climate as she just moved here a year ago. In her previous state HBs were illegal and she attended freebirths covertly. She's enjoying being open and public here but she's also bogged down by legislation that in some cases can see her facing criminal charges (not just deregulation) if she doesn't play by the rules. Some of these laws just came in in January so are untested and perhaps even the very experienced MWs would be equally antsy at the moment.

I don't know anyone I can ask but I have read online reviews and I know she has a good reputation. On a personal level we get along well and I like her energy. I picture a very positive birth and in many ways I know she's trying to get me the birth I want- especially in putting in the effort to have home appointments (rare for MWs around here) and develop a relationship with my son who has autism so that he can be comfortable around her and be at the birth if he chooses.

I was also thinking that this was one of those cases where the conversation went too far by text. Perhaps it would have been fine IRL and I should just calm down and get over it.

It sounds like you might have something going on around trust with your midwife, when that trust is broken you start being sensitive and reactive to everything they do. I wonder if you had cleared up how you felt about the Hep A incident whether you would be feeling like this about her text? I would look at this beyond the text and beyond your reaction, you are two people in a relationship that is building and heading toward a birth. You as the client need to be able to be vulnerable and say what you need to say and process what you need to process, she can provide a safe place for you to do this, and you will trust her direction more when she offers you options re your care. My first HB midwife I had this stuff come up around her wanting to hug me everytime she came for an appointment. I talked to friends about it and they thought I was being ridiculous, but I told her how I was feeling and she stood steady in herself and saw me for who I was and the journey I was on. It was not about what I needed to say, it was about us both steeping forward together in our relationship... MY second HB midwife I had lots of different things come up and when I could not express it well my trust for her would wane, if I spoke up she would never take it personally, she would own it and we could move on. THis proved to be incredibly important because after birth I needed to listen to what she was saying, I could trust her and knew I had to take action because I knew her so well.... So the question is, what is needed for you to clear the air for yourself in order to move forward with this person, after that do you need to talk about this with her? If yes, ask her to come around and talk about it soon, don't wait for the next appointment. xx

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I hope you get the thrush sorted ASAP Bella. So not fun!

I need help!! I'm so confused and sad and stressed. More crap with my MW :( When we met this week we didn't talk about the whole issue I had with the way she told me about the hep A I had and we just had a really good appointment. I had known we would need to revisit it again to clear over the whole thing and ensure we had understood each other's point of view and we were communicating well but I figured there was time.

Anyway, so at the appointment I mentioned I had had two very tiny drops of bright blood (smaller than a millimetre). I hadn't had sex in a while but had just moved house and done a hard yoga class and my pelvis was very sore. Then when she was palpitating my tummy to feel baby I had some acute pain on the upper right side. She thought the pain could be digestive wind through my tummy but could also be an issue with an organ (like gall stones) or a contraction, though I didn't feel any signs of a contraction.

So last night she sent me a text to ask how the pain and bleeding was going. I told her I had one more teeny spot of blood the next day but nothing since and the pain seemed to digestive as it happened again after I ate another not quite ripe nectarine but I hadn't had it again. So she replied that if I wanted she could refer me for an ultrasound to check the placenta and if I was having early cervical dilation. I said I really don't think anything is wrong and I'm happy to wait and see if I have any more bleeding and asked "or is the three drops enough to be concerned?".

She replied with this: "It's always up to you to make the decisions that are right for you in your care :) I'm here as a consultant to you, to listen and provide clinical care and to give you information, and resources and the help support you to keep your pregnancy and birth normal and healthy. Bleeding now at this time in pregnancy can happen on occasion w lovemaking, but is not otherwise normal. It could be many things- many are not a problem, and some could be. I would always let you know if I see something that could be an issue, even if it ends up being just fine. That's why mothers have midwives and doctors adn why we do prenatal care- to keep things normal and healthy as possible and to spot things early when issues arise so we can correct issues early. An ultrasound is the tool used to help identify any issues when a mama has any bleeding in pregnancy. It is less invasive and gives us more information than a vaginal exam, which is the other test that's done to assess spotting or bleeding. That's why I shared that option with you, so you know what your options are and can make informed decisions about your care. I think waiting to see is just fine. If it happens again, or gets worse, or if there is any pain, please let me know right away- those are signs of problems. I'm here to help you and baby to be healthy and well. I do not benefit at all from tests or procedures- and I only recommend them when they are appropriate care"

Aside from the fact that it's a mini-essay it feels like a lecture and I REALLY don't appreciate the condescending tone telling me why women hire midwives. Am I over reacting? The rest of what she said is actually reasonable but I think she blew my question out of the water. She knows having an ultrasound is not a decision I take lightly as I don't even use a doppler so why would I run and have one without many markers for need? I was trying to assess if she had offered it for my peace of mind or if we were already at that point where it's needed. Waiting for more bleeding and/or pain makes MUCH more sense to me. To have one now is major overkill. I'm fine!!

I find it quite triggering, like a doctor trying to power trip me. Do I need to change MWs? It's getting so far along and I'm SO busy that stresses me out big time :(

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Hmmm, that's a tough one, meow. What's your gut telling you? I'd go with my instincts. You've mentioned a lot around the practising climate, so it sounds like you're trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. Does that mean you'd rather take this as an isolated incident? You could try sending her a light-hearted response to it - something along the lines of "Woah, that's a lot of reading to take in! Thanks for your advice, but I'm pretty sure that I just need to keep an eye on it from the outside at the moment. You know my aversion to ultrasounds so that's not an option I'd take lightly." Maybe remind her that you're not a first-timer who needs educating, just support.

AFM, pretty sure I'm clear on the pg front. I think the symptoms I was having are an indication of my cycle returning.

Bella - hope you get the thrush sorted quickly.

A year ago today I birthed my fourth daughter at home... born in her caul, her birth asked me to dig deeper than I ever have before... such a thrill!!! I am looking at her photos this morning, all of my girls huddled around the birth pool in their jammies, squealing with joy calling her in was one of the best moment of my life!

Meow: in all honesty it simply sounds like you guys dont really know eachother that well yet (ie. she doesnt know the how, whys, what and wherefores of you and your journey) and is still in that early infancy of a relationship stage. I think that you guys might need to book in some appointments on a more regular basis over the short term. It seriously just sounds like the relationship of trust and knowing you and how you operate isnt there yet ITMS. and if, on top of it all she is still getting her bearings in the new system it's probably all compounding. My only concern is that she doesnt seem to be confident within the system and it might be worth thinking about how this might affect her continuity of care if somewhere along the journey there was a decision that had to be made in terms of transfer or hospital monitoring. It might be worth thinking about your last HB journey and thinking how nic or helen might be handling this situation with the bleeding and then that might give you a platform in which to form a relationship with this IM ITMS. You need to be able to feel that you can talk candidly and not have to make all those decisions of your care for yourself...having an IM is a relationship where, together you guys make sure that you get the best birth possible...this is not about you simply 'informing yourself' and making all those calls on your own. yes, ultimately you have the veto if you decide not to go, but you need to have a level of trust in your IM that she will make a call and that you can trust the call that she is making. I know that i am rambling but as an example...when i was in threatened PT labour with Miss E i called Nic. she isnt one to panic and hit the Big Red Button, but she also knows that i downplay stuff Big Time. so she came around, had a cup of tea with me, watched me, asked me what i wanted to do (which i said, I HAD NO IDEA hahaha), she then told me my options, then told me what she suspected might be going on (early labour or TPL). She knew my history of PTSD and knew that it was a big trigger to go to hospital so she got our student IM to stay with me for a couple of hours and monitor me intermittently over that time while i rested (to see if contrax stopped). when they didnt, she told me that it might be time to get checked out... she told me that based on how i was presenting there was also an outside chance that an abruption might be on the cards (due to the way i explained the pain). When she made that call i trusted her implicitly as she never left me alone in terms of information, support etc. So when she made the call, I was only a step behind her in thinking the same thing ITMS. for me, this is an ideal situation. you need guidance and trust that they know when to make a call that takes into consideration not just the 'medical' (because of course, you could always just say, 'hey, no harm in getting it all checked out') but also the dynamic of emotional/mental space.

Sorry, i know that i am rambling, but i get how important it is to have that trust, and although i reckon you guys could get there, it might just take a bit more work and rather than wait for the monthly appointment, might be worth throwing a couple extra in and see where it takes you.

I can also ask my peeps if you want if they know anyone in your area or if they know your IM. i might know someone that has used her and can recommend her...as HotI mentioned sometimes it is really nice knowing how other families have had a great experience etc to tip you over the edge...i know that's how i chose Nic and Helen in the first place...a recommendation :)

in the short term...might be worth sending an email to Helen and asking about the spotting...see what she says and weigh it up with what your IM reckons.

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate it so very much xx

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It sounds like you might have something going on around trust with your midwife, when that trust is broken you start being sensitive and reactive to everything they do.

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I actually think her response says a bit about her lack of trust in me. She's not sure about my responses and I think she thinks I'm just negative against any suggestion she makes which makes it difficult for her to feel I'm trusting her. I'm feeling like she's not communicating enough though. Offering me options isn't really support. If she had said "If you're concerned you could have an ultrasound, or else we can wait and see if you have worsening symptoms then an ultrasound probably would really be a good idea" then I would have felt more informed.

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Hmmm, that's a tough one, meow. What's your gut telling you? I'd go with my instincts. You've mentioned a lot around the practising climate, so it sounds like you're trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. Does that mean you'd rather take this as an isolated incident?

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I'm really unsure of my instincts. I guess I feel like there is more going on here and it's more about miscommunication between us, than her being the wrong person. I did reply that I didn't want her to get defensive it's just that an ultrasound is not a minor decision for me and I feel like everything is fine so it's not needed, but I also didn't want to be flippant and ignore warning signs so I wanted her input. Also let her know that we're had sex since my pelvis pain has gone and there were no issues so I'm guessing that's a good sign. I think that helped her peace of mind too as I know she doesn't want to neglect us if there really are possible warning signs. I guess she doesn't know me enough yet to know when I'll really start sending up red flags.

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I can also ask my peeps if you want if they know anyone in your area or if they know your IM.

in the short term...might be worth sending an email to Helen and asking about the spotting...see what she says and weigh it up with what your IM reckons.

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I had considered talking to Helen about the whole thing and getting her advice. I know she would have been much clearer and wouldn't have suggested an ultrasound yet. It makes me miss her! I don't think I need anymore advice on the spotting- it was SO minor and I'm sure it's nothing. It's been days with nothing- I'm sure it was from pushing bookcases around ;) Who are your peeps? Do they know people everywhere? :lol: Happy for any south SF bay area advice if anyone you know has any. My MW works in teams of two so at the birth we'll have someone else from her practice and they have all been in the area for ages so I'm sure they'll be a good resource in case of transfer/navigating 'the system' if needed.

We already have an appointment in about a week and a half so I'll wait till then but we need to make sure we talk about this stuff... I'll make some notes.

Meow: I think every ones else advice is sound and helpful. I on the other hand may not be. I feel that you just haven't messed with this women, you don't feel like she is on this journey with you and that you are having to manage your pregnancy and her rather than it being a team. Mentioning that your feel like she is taking the Dr role is something to think more about... Is that the care you want? Are there other MWs in your new area? Can you shop around some more? I'm not a personal touchy freely person. I have never had a MW I loved or a friend that I wanted at the birth. I see everyone at my births as tools to get me the birth I want. Dr equal intervention, Homebirth equals natural birth, free birth was intense :) I don't love this MW I have this time BUT. I feel heard and supported and on the same path. I don't need a life long friend, I need someone here incase the %#^* hits the fan :) but we all need something different from our births. Prioritise what YOU need from your birth and support people. Don't comprise! Hugs. I'm sorry about your stress levels at the moment :(

I completely understand what you're saying Tegam and I appreciate it too. I agree with you that perhaps this is just a bad fit- I keep having issues! Maybe I'm trying to fit a square peg into a round hole? The patronising comment and the way that that triggers stress for me is not a good sign at all. I am most concerned about that. The thing is she worked for years as a women's abuse counsellor so surely she'll understand when I talk about her triggering my stress and want to change. I think I need to just try and have the conversation.

I haven't moved all that far from my old place so most my MW options are the same. Which pretty much leaves the other MWs in the same practice (could be awkward?), another practice that seems very clinical and I'm not interested in or another MW I have been in contact with before. I'm tossing up finding out if she's still available... she ended up not wanting to do my prenatal appointments at home because I was too far but now I live right near her. She very experienced and could be a good fit but some of her initial paperwork was a bit off putting. I'm not sure. At least we sorted out my eldest son's school placement today and that is another thing ticked off so I do have more mental space to just focus on the MW for now.

Yes exactly meow I am worried you are trying to make this work too much. I feel you need and have the right to be selfish in this relationship. It isn't a friendship it is of a professional nature. If she is a good midwife she understands that this is not her journey this is not about her feelings. What are you going to care most about one week post birth? The feelings of a women that you chose not to be your primary midwife or the fact that you got the birth attendant you needed? It will not hurt to discuss you feelings with her now, I know it will be hard but boy it will be much harder if you are in transition :)

It will not hurt to meet with other midwives and I can't hurt to keep reassessing how you are feeling and your prioritise about this birth. What's most important to you! I made far to many compromises in my last pregnancy care and labour. The consequences are far reaching. Only you know what is the right fit for you and what's worth compromising and what's worth fighting.

I think you have had too much on your plate the past few weeks. Juggling house moves and children's new schooling, family visits and holidays. Your midwives appointments are the only time you are getting to focus on the baby and your needs and that's leaving you panicked and rushed. Slow it all down, don't have that appointment next week if you aren't ready. Can you have some time to yourself to just be with this baby? Work out a plan together? It's all ok I promise, you have months to sort this out.

Meow, don't feel bad. If I have another baby at least one of m/w's will be different to the two I had for DD2 and DD3. The most obvious excuse is that I would rather not freebirth again, but I also have a m/w I've met since DD2 that I just gel with. I really want her to be there if I do it again and conveniently, she's also the closest. I was so disappointed when at my first group get together after DD3's birth she told us we should have called her (when my m/w was on her way and clearly not going to make it)!

Do what feels right for you. *hugs*

Hope you're able to sort everything out meow :).

Congratulations to ozstar and everyone else who's had a baby recently! I've been following every now and then but not much. Hard to remember to log in when I'm not rubbing a pregnant belly :p.

Has anyone who has had to transfer during their birth to hospital had a difficult time coming to terms with it? I didn't get my home water birth which I've gotten over but I find myself sometimes going over my birth and getting frustrated about having an episiotomy, my son being delivered via ventouse, him being suctioned after birth (this especially makes me cringe and really upset), and having syntocin for the placenta. I've tried talking to dh about it but he just goes quiet and doesn't know what to say. I am annoyed mainly that all those things were done without my permission and without being informed why they were necessary. I am considering hiring a doula for my next birth so I have someone to speak up for me as both dh and I are easily intimidated by medical staff.

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Has anyone who has had to transfer during their birth to hospital had a difficult time coming to terms with it? I didn't get my home water birth which I've gotten over but I find myself sometimes going over my birth and getting frustrated about having an episiotomy, my son being delivered via ventouse, him being suctioned after birth (this especially makes me cringe and really upset), and having syntocin for the placenta. I've tried talking to dh about it but he just goes quiet and doesn't know what to say. I am annoyed mainly that all those things were done without my permission and without being informed why they were necessary. I am considering hiring a doula for my next birth so I have someone to speak up for me as both dh and I are easily intimidated by medical staff.

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Yes!!!!!!! OMG yes a million times.
:comfort: I am so sorry that you didn't get the birth you had hoped for. I have found it can be such an incredibly hard situation to piece together exactly what and how you are feeling, I am still struggling. I have no advice because I am where you are (maybe just further along in thinking about it) but I reckon there would be a billion worse things you could do than hire a doula. Just be sure she is the right one for you. My I/M failed us badly in terms of medical intervention when she did finally turn up. Huge hugs :hug:

Dot Face, I think that those feeling are common for anyone who didn't get the birth they had planned, regardless of what they were planning itms. My son was to be born in a hospital and I was happy with that but I really wanted to do it naturally, picked a hospital with birth pools in the room etc. Then I got GD and by the time the birth rolled around I was being pressured to induce and eventually did. Then because of the GD I wasn't allowed to go in the pool, then my sugars went crazy so I ended up on the bed with an insulin/glucose drip, then the epidural, threats of C-section, some thing where they put electrodes on his scalp to check oxygen levels, then when he was born they moved to cut his cord instantly and the first word he ever heard was me saying 'No' as I tried to stop them. They did it anyway and whisked him over to the resus table because he was grey.

It is very frustrating and does take a while to get used to. I dwelled on it for ages. I think it is that you stop being an individual with choices and just get sucked into the medical machine, one thing after another and you feel you can't say no to any of it because they are trained medical staff telling you what needs to happen and you want to do what is best for your child no matter if it seems wrong.

I don't actually have any words of wisdom for you because I didn't really get over it until I birthed my second child, so calm and relaxed.

Hi Dot Face. I know I'm not often in here (can't have a homebirth with this next one...)
But I wanted to comment on transfer.

We had to transfer when my waters broke and they found meconium. I was in active labor by then but still about 6 hours away from delivery and things weren't too intense.
The midwife who was attending us drove us over to the hospital and got us all set up and talked everything through with the midwives there before she had to leave.
Things ended up getting pretty complicated a fair bit later during and after the delivery.
The midwife who attended me at home during early labor also attended me at home postpartum and once she heard what had happened she said she was really glad we had transferred when we did and really glad that she hadn't been the one assisting with the birth, no offense to me of course :) just that it got pretty scary and she was glad she hadn't had the responsibility and also glad we'd been in hospital to get immediate extra assistance.

All of this meant that I've been fairly glad we transferred when we did, it was certainly much better to transfer then than it would have been at the next sign of trouble.
Occasionally I wonder if everything would have gone the way it did if my care at the hospital had been different or if we'd stayed at home.
But the thing is that there's no way to know and at each point we took what seemed to be the best option at the time (even if that was to blindly follow directions from the midwife).
Maybe now with hindsight and plenty of time to think it over it would have been better to do some things differently. But maybe it wouldn't have made much difference.

I can totally understand why you'd be annoyed especially as things were done without your permission.

Just in my experience, I've found that things happened pretty quickly at the hospital and there often wasn't time to discuss exactly why something was necessary or what other options there might be. Personally I've had more trouble accepting that I wasn't told of things after the fact. I'm very glad they just resuscitated my son as soon as he was born rather than explaining and getting my permission. I wish they'd told me they'd done it rather than me reading it in his notes a year later. I'm also really glad that they stitched up all the internal tearing, just would have been nice to know before I called my midwife a month later to ask about the pain which turned out to be due to the internal stitches pulling. Yes now with hindsight I, and I think also the midwife, may have done some things differently possibly with different outcomes, but I've tried to make peace with the decisions that were made and which at the time seemed to be the best options.

Not sure how much sense that makes or how relevant it may be for your situation and sorry it's a bit long. I guess I've just been thinking a lot on the different perspective that hindsight brings and how in hindsight there are many aspects of my son's birth that I wish had gone differently, but I've found that looking at it from that perspective isn't helpful for me and realizing that each decision was made at the time for good reason brings me more peace and acceptance.

Good luck sorting through it all and best of luck for next time!

Thank you guys for the comforting words. And sorry that you guys have also experienced similar, it sucks.

Nyigi I know what you mean but I think I should have clarified; I meant I would have liked to have received information after the procedures about why they were necessary. Of course if they, for whatever reason, felt it was necessary to do them ASAP they couldn't explain what was going on but some debriefing would have been good. Ah well. I think I'll need to go over my birth notes to see exactly what happened.

Oh Dot Face I am so sorry you are experiencing any negative feelings. From experience i have found that hospital notes only fill in some of the holes but not many.


I had a beautiful Homebirth (free birth) with my 3rd baby. It was quick and sadly the midwife should have made it but didnt think anything was happening with me. This in turn made my husband feel that the $5000 was wasted and by the time we fell pregnant with my 4th he had decided that we wouldn't waste that money again. Even tho everything worked our perfectly with the free birth DH didn't think he wanted to risk it again. We had had two lovely hospital births before the Homebirth so weren't that off put by having another at hospital, except we had moved states and the cs rates at this new hospital are out of control. In early pregnancy I thought I knew enough about the system to be ok...... I also confident to free birth if that's what happened. But entering the system was a huge mistake. First the pressured me about my early labours (all between 36-38weeks) then my fast labours, then that I was at huge risk of PPH as it was my 4th bub and 6th pregnancy, then they said my baby was small then they said that I didn't have enough fluid....

I get terrible per labour where I muck around for days and days. I went to the hospital the night before my 4th was born, I was 3cm but it then all died down. I decided to leave the hospital as they said they wanted to break my waters.... The next morning after NO sleep for a few days I was phone by the ob who saw me the day before, telling me to come in, I said no, then her boss called me, then a Mw from the ward and then the NUM and finally the head OB. seriously 5 phone calls telling me I was putting myself and the baby in danger. I remember walking up to my husband, broken and saying we "had to go in". I agreed to monitoring and an internal to see if I was any further along.

They did an internal and without permission broke my waters, all proud of themselves that I'd probably have the baby within 30mins now, weren't they clever :(

Nothing happened, they did another internal and I was 5cm but felt fine, then another (no idea why) and I was 9cm. I then got pushy but knew something was wrong, I was standing beside the bed, I had 4midwives a student Mw and a dr in the room cause I was going to be such a quick birth, all without my permission, I remember looking up feeling like I was a circus freak. I simply yelled "I'm telling you something is wrong"

They did another internal and I was massively swollen, the last internal at 9cm was done with latex gloves and I have an allergy that they had forgotten about :(

The story gets a whole lot worst but I'm still not ready to discuss the next 2.5hrs. To say it was the worse experience of my life is an understatement and to have that terror associate with the birth of my dd kills me with guilt.

I had done it three times before, I had supported three women to VBAC before, I am a nurse.....

I lost my voice and had no one on my side.

I am still very much not over this experience. I still have enormous issues with my DH about it. Something he almost gets now after years of he explaining. He has never ever let me down, except then.... But ultimately I feel it's my fault and someone that only I cold have change.

I always wanted one more birth to heal from dd's. but this pregnancy hasn't helped at all. It's making me deal with those feelings and that's hard, most of the time I ignore it all. My Mw wants to book in the planning meeting but I'm just not ready. I am terrified of birth and I have never ever felt that way before. All I know is I can not go to a hospital. In fact I don't think I want anyone near me or touching me. I think. Want to be outside just to prove to myself how much I am NOT in a hospital.



Well what an essay that ended up being, not sure it helps you but I think I said all that to show you that you can never be your own voice in hospital. Please get a doula or IM. Someone that knows you well and will be there solely for you!

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I am still very much not over this experience. I still have enormous issues with my DH about it. Something he almost gets now after years of he explaining. He has never ever let me down, except then.... But ultimately I feel it's my fault and someone that only I cold have change.

I always wanted one more birth to heal from dd's. but this pregnancy hasn't helped at all. It's making me deal with those feelings and that's hard, most of the time I ignore it all. My Mw wants to book in the planning meeting but I'm just not ready. I am terrified of birth and I have never ever felt that way before. All I know is I can not go to a hospital. In fact I don't think I want anyone near me or touching me. I think. Want to be outside just to prove to myself how much I am NOT in a hospital.



Well what an essay that ended up being, not sure it helps you but I think I said all that to show you that you can never be your own voice in hospital. Please get a doula or IM. Someone that knows you well and will be there solely for you!

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:hug: i had a PTSD after DD1s birth and yeah, the planning and even just the pg sent me into a whirlwind of memories and triggers and despair. have you anyone near you to help you through it at all? I saw a psychologist that was all about baby/birth related trauma stuff and it was invaluable. She helped show me that actually planning the new pgs journey would help me get on top of the feelings and memories as NO MATTER WHAT it was going to be a different and better journey, come what may. I hope you find that place soon too xx

Hugs to all those healing from their birth journeys...

My first birth was a planned HB but I went to hospital to be induced. My MW was excellent, it was an ok hospital birth, OB was respectful of my transfer plan. But yeah, still took ages to work through.

And like you Tegam DP thought what a waste of $5000! So this time around I have had to really advocate for myself with him to have this HB. Which is why I am working so long up to due date to afford the HB as DP refuses to pay for it :/ Lucky my MW will do shared care so I only have to pay for the birth itself and a few appts outside of it.

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All I know is I can not go to a hospital. In fact I don't think I want anyone near me or touching me. I think. Want to be outside just to prove to myself how much I am NOT in a hospital.

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i am sorry that you went through that Tegam. I spent time during DS' labour outside in the garden, and was comforted greatly by feeling the breeze and smelling the grass. Only when i read your post did i realise that I too was probably reassuring myself that i was home and in a safe place.

i met my IM when i was going through the hospital complaint process, and so she was aware of my experience when she supported my in the births of #2 and #3. I laboured and birthed without being touched by anyone. Please let those around you know that you don't want to be touched.

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I didn't get my home water birth which I've gotten over but I find myself sometimes going over my birth and getting frustrated about having an episiotomy, my son being delivered via ventouse, him being suctioned after birth (this especially makes me cringe and really upset), and having syntocin for the placenta. I've tried talking to dh about it but he just goes quiet and doesn't know what to say. I am annoyed mainly that all those things were done without my permission and without being informed why they were necessary. I am considering hiring a doula for my next birth so I have someone to speak up for me as both dh and I are easily intimidated by medical staff.

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I am sorry things were done to you and your baby without permission. There is no justification for not letting you know why they wanted to do something, and for not asking for your permission before acting. Have you considered making a complaint to the hospital or health commissioner?
Your notes may provide some answers, but are often found to be incomplete or inaccurate. i found talking to a private midwife helpful to answer some of my questions, and to help decipher the hospital birth notes.

Oh Tegam I'm so sorry :( that sounds horrible and it makes me SO EXTREMELY angry at the stupid staff who broke your waters and forgot your allergy and used latex gloves! I would love to say that I would punch them if I saw them but unfortunately I'm not that brave. I will just imagine punching them instead (perhaps it's time to make a few voodoo dolls).

Hotl thank you, I wouldn't want to write to them because I have this sick feeling they'll just brush it off and make excuses for themselves and make me feel inferior for even voicing my concerns. However the midwife who attended my birth was absolutely fantastic (she had to leave before I actually gave birth though as her shift finished) so I might call in and ask to see her sometime soon. I think I really need to go over what happened so I can have some closure.

Thanks a lot everyone and again it sucks that you guys also had cruddy experiences at some point. *hugs*

Oh Dot Face :hug: I'm so, so sorry you are facing this :( I think you have had some lovely words of encouragement already and I'm also so sorry to all the other women who have suffered birth trauma.

Tegam it breaks my heart to read about your experience too. Please don't say this is your fault. Abuse is NEVER the fault of the abused. It is up to the people working in these god damned hospitals to pick up their game and stop treating women like this!

Can I just say how very much I appreciate this thread and all of you wonderful women at the moment! It is such a blessing to be able to come in here and share our experiences and ask for help and to receive thoughtful, kind responses xx

AFM I have bitten the bullet and sent out some feeler emails to a few MWs this morning. Still also preparing for a conversation with my MW at my appointment in a week but I'll feel better to start exploring my options and know I have access to other MWs who are still available at my due date so I don't feel trapped if it comes to that. We're going camping this weekend (in a tent cabin so still a mattress on a bed frame thankfully!) so it'll be a lovely chance to get offline for a bit in nature and enjoy my family :)

Hugs to everyone who's had such awful experiences.
Yes DotFace, I'd already realised that there was a difference there. That's why I thought it might not be relevant.
I've just often wondered about my transfer and in the end the only way I could let go of some of the things that happened or the way they were dealt with was to see that at each step of the way everyone had been trying to do the best they could and there was no intention of harm.

Of course no one should be treated in the ways many of you have described and I've certainly seen some horrible things in the hospital system and the medical system more generally. Sometimes I think the system encourages nurses and doctors (who I'm sure all start out with the best intentions) to just stop seeing 'patients' as 'people'.

I see very little reason for birth to be included in the general medical system. No one is sick and nothing is wrong and things just seem to go down hill when someone comes in with the thinking that there is a patient with a problem that needs solving as quickly as possible.

(Really wish I could join you guys and birth this baby at home. I think it's fantastic what you are all doing, especially in Aus where homebirth doesn't yet seem to be so well accepted. Best wishes to you all)

:hug: to those who have had unpleasant experiences, I've been there too, unnecessary c/section for my first for 'failure to progress' after 8 hours :o I was angry and just really sad for a long time but at the same time, I don't think I would have ever chosen a homebirth with our second so in a weird way I'm glad it worked out the way it did (I realise how bizarre that sounds)

I have been feeling like I'm not in the right head space for birth. (I know I've still got a fair bit of time) so I watched The Face of Birth last night and already I feel so much better. I'm going to start preparing my birth space too. I want some nice 'bits and pieces' to go on some draws that will be in the room and maybe some affirmations up on the walls. Anyone got any suggestions? Or want to share what they included in their birth space?

Meow-You sound much calmer with your plan. I hope you enjoy your camping weekend, nothing like being out in nature.

Lady bug, something which helped me during labour was telling myself over and over in my head "this is temporary, it will be over soon." During contractions the midwives weren't letting me push despite the desperate urge to do so and I kept thinking "just a few more seconds...hold it just a few more seconds" while my midwife was reminding me to breathe. That also helped me, I found.

ETA: and I also remember thinking "well the pain isn't so bad that I want to die or not exist" lol it also helped put things in perspective.

Lady-bug, I felt much the same as you about my c/s. In hindsight, I didn't need it, but if it wasn't for that and my concern over VBAC hospital guidelines, I wouldn't have looked into HB. All the way from a scheduled c/s to a freebirth - bit of a difference!

For my birth space, I didn't do much for my first HB, just lots of mental preparation. Set the space up, but no decoration, just the practical things, dimmed lighting, warm pool, bean bags, etc. I did Blessingway flags for my second HB and had everyone write something on them. More emotional prep this time. I did set the room up (same one), but this time only with the birth pool.

Thanks Dot face.

Jennifer, that's exactly how this one feels. With my first HBAC I was almost in 'fight' mode, I was so determined that I was going to have a HBAC, this time I know I can do it although I have a weird feeling that this labour is going to be trickier or harder, or maybe its going to take more mental power than last time.
I love this thread for the fact that I can unload this stuff and not be looked at like a weirdo :lol: maybe??

Definitely not a weirdo! :)

I also love being able to talk freely about homebirthing and all things related here. Too much judgment everywhere else. I remember once while I was pregnant and was at a bridal shower, I was having a chat to a girl there and homebirth somehow came up and she was like "that's wrong, I think that's so wrong". Lol. She was a really sweet girl, I felt sad that she wasn't aware of how wonderful a homebirth could be and how much it can help women feel confident and empowered in their ability to birth naturally. I didn't dare pipe in with "well, you'll be surprised to know then..." despite being slightly tempted to.
With my next pregnancy though, whenever that is, I'm considering just saying "I'm actually planning a homebirth" when anyone asks which hospital I'm booked into. I might change my mind though when the time comes. :P

I did that this last time dot face. First time I hbac'd, when ppl asked me what hospital we were going to, I told them "we are booked in at x hospital". I didn't lie, I just omitted the rest. This last time, I just told people. No one came back and said anything negative, just a few comments regarding my 'bravery' because of the pain I think. And yeah I found this last one a bit harder mentally, because I think I knew my body worked and I think I was more just aware of how hard it would be. I panicked in the middle and then settled down.

At work last night three out of four of us were pregnant. Conversation nurse 'is this your first or second' me '5th' her 'oh, which hospital are you having it at' me' at home' nurse 'oh' end of conversation :)

I think weirdo just might cover it lady bug

Lol! Oh tegam.... You must be having fun with it. You must shock people's ideas on 'average' these days :)