Homebirth General Discussion #20

[Tegam]

Meow: I think every ones else advice is sound and helpful. I on the other hand may not be. I feel that you just haven't messed with this women, you don't feel like she is on this journey with you and that you are having to manage your pregnancy and her rather than it being a team. Mentioning that your feel like she is taking the Dr role is something to think more about... Is that the care you want? Are there other MWs in your new area? Can you shop around some more? I'm not a personal touchy freely person. I have never had a MW I loved or a friend that I wanted at the birth. I see everyone at my births as tools to get me the birth I want. Dr equal intervention, Homebirth equals natural birth, free birth was intense I don't love this MW I have this time BUT. I feel heard and supported and on the same path. I don't need a life long friend, I need someone here incase the %#^* hits the fan but we all need something different from our births. Prioritise what YOU need from your birth and support people. Don't comprise! Hugs. I'm sorry about your stress levels at the moment

[meow]

I completely understand what you're saying Tegam and I appreciate it too. I agree with you that perhaps this is just a bad fit- I keep having issues! Maybe I'm trying to fit a square peg into a round hole? The patronising comment and the way that that triggers stress for me is not a good sign at all. I am most concerned about that. The thing is she worked for years as a women's abuse counsellor so surely she'll understand when I talk about her triggering my stress and want to change. I think I need to just try and have the conversation.

I haven't moved all that far from my old place so most my MW options are the same. Which pretty much leaves the other MWs in the same practice (could be awkward?), another practice that seems very clinical and I'm not interested in or another MW I have been in contact with before. I'm tossing up finding out if she's still available... she ended up not wanting to do my prenatal appointments at home because I was too far but now I live right near her. She very experienced and could be a good fit but some of her initial paperwork was a bit off putting. I'm not sure. At least we sorted out my eldest son's school placement today and that is another thing ticked off so I do have more mental space to just focus on the MW for now.

[Tegam]

Yes exactly meow I am worried you are trying to make this work too much. I feel you need and have the right to be selfish in this relationship. It isn't a friendship it is of a professional nature. If she is a good midwife she understands that this is not her journey this is not about her feelings. What are you going to care most about one week post birth? The feelings of a women that you chose not to be your primary midwife or the fact that you got the birth attendant you needed? It will not hurt to discuss you feelings with her now, I know it will be hard but boy it will be much harder if you are in transition

It will not hurt to meet with other midwives and I can't hurt to keep reassessing how you are feeling and your prioritise about this birth. What's most important to you! I made far to many compromises in my last pregnancy care and labour. The consequences are far reaching. Only you know what is the right fit for you and what's worth compromising and what's worth fighting.

I think you have had too much on your plate the past few weeks. Juggling house moves and children's new schooling, family visits and holidays. Your midwives appointments are the only time you are getting to focus on the baby and your needs and that's leaving you panicked and rushed. Slow it all down, don't have that appointment next week if you aren't ready. Can you have some time to yourself to just be with this baby? Work out a plan together? It's all ok I promise, you have months to sort this out.

[Jennifer13]

Meow, don't feel bad. If I have another baby at least one of m/w's will be different to the two I had for DD2 and DD3. The most obvious excuse is that I would rather not freebirth again, but I also have a m/w I've met since DD2 that I just gel with. I really want her to be there if I do it again and conveniently, she's also the closest. I was so disappointed when at my first group get together after DD3's birth she told us we should have called her (when my m/w was on her way and clearly not going to make it)!

Do what feels right for you. *hugs*

[Dot Face]

Hope you're able to sort everything out meow .

Congratulations to ozstar and everyone else who's had a baby recently! I've been following every now and then but not much. Hard to remember to log in when I'm not rubbing a pregnant belly .

Has anyone who has had to transfer during their birth to hospital had a difficult time coming to terms with it? I didn't get my home water birth which I've gotten over but I find myself sometimes going over my birth and getting frustrated about having an episiotomy, my son being delivered via ventouse, him being suctioned after birth (this especially makes me cringe and really upset), and having syntocin for the placenta. I've tried talking to dh about it but he just goes quiet and doesn't know what to say. I am annoyed mainly that all those things were done without my permission and without being informed why they were necessary. I am considering hiring a doula for my next birth so I have someone to speak up for me as both dh and I are easily intimidated by medical staff.

[Lily Dust]

Has anyone who has had to transfer during their birth to hospital had a difficult time coming to terms with it? I didn't get my home water birth which I've gotten over but I find myself sometimes going over my birth and getting frustrated about having an episiotomy, my son being delivered via ventouse, him being suctioned after birth (this especially makes me cringe and really upset), and having syntocin for the placenta. I've tried talking to dh about it but he just goes quiet and doesn't know what to say. I am annoyed mainly that all those things were done without my permission and without being informed why they were necessary. I am considering hiring a doula for my next birth so I have someone to speak up for me as both dh and I are easily intimidated by medical staff.

Yes!!!!!!! OMG yes a million times.
I am so sorry that you didn't get the birth you had hoped for. I have found it can be such an incredibly hard situation to piece together exactly what and how you are feeling, I am still struggling. I have no advice because I am where you are (maybe just further along in thinking about it) but I reckon there would be a billion worse things you could do than hire a doula. Just be sure she is the right one for you. My I/M failed us badly in terms of medical intervention when she did finally turn up. Huge hugs

[Artechim]

Dot Face, I think that those feeling are common for anyone who didn't get the birth they had planned, regardless of what they were planning itms. My son was to be born in a hospital and I was happy with that but I really wanted to do it naturally, picked a hospital with birth pools in the room etc. Then I got GD and by the time the birth rolled around I was being pressured to induce and eventually did. Then because of the GD I wasn't allowed to go in the pool, then my sugars went crazy so I ended up on the bed with an insulin/glucose drip, then the epidural, threats of C-section, some thing where they put electrodes on his scalp to check oxygen levels, then when he was born they moved to cut his cord instantly and the first word he ever heard was me saying 'No' as I tried to stop them. They did it anyway and whisked him over to the resus table because he was grey.

It is very frustrating and does take a while to get used to. I dwelled on it for ages. I think it is that you stop being an individual with choices and just get sucked into the medical machine, one thing after another and you feel you can't say no to any of it because they are trained medical staff telling you what needs to happen and you want to do what is best for your child no matter if it seems wrong.

I don't actually have any words of wisdom for you because I didn't really get over it until I birthed my second child, so calm and relaxed.

[nyigi]

Hi Dot Face. I know I'm not often in here (can't have a homebirth with this next one...)
But I wanted to comment on transfer.

We had to transfer when my waters broke and they found meconium. I was in active labor by then but still about 6 hours away from delivery and things weren't too intense.
The midwife who was attending us drove us over to the hospital and got us all set up and talked everything through with the midwives there before she had to leave.
Things ended up getting pretty complicated a fair bit later during and after the delivery.
The midwife who attended me at home during early labor also attended me at home postpartum and once she heard what had happened she said she was really glad we had transferred when we did and really glad that she hadn't been the one assisting with the birth, no offense to me of course just that it got pretty scary and she was glad she hadn't had the responsibility and also glad we'd been in hospital to get immediate extra assistance.

All of this meant that I've been fairly glad we transferred when we did, it was certainly much better to transfer then than it would have been at the next sign of trouble.
Occasionally I wonder if everything would have gone the way it did if my care at the hospital had been different or if we'd stayed at home.
But the thing is that there's no way to know and at each point we took what seemed to be the best option at the time (even if that was to blindly follow directions from the midwife).
Maybe now with hindsight and plenty of time to think it over it would have been better to do some things differently. But maybe it wouldn't have made much difference.

I can totally understand why you'd be annoyed especially as things were done without your permission.

Just in my experience, I've found that things happened pretty quickly at the hospital and there often wasn't time to discuss exactly why something was necessary or what other options there might be. Personally I've had more trouble accepting that I wasn't told of things after the fact. I'm very glad they just resuscitated my son as soon as he was born rather than explaining and getting my permission. I wish they'd told me they'd done it rather than me reading it in his notes a year later. I'm also really glad that they stitched up all the internal tearing, just would have been nice to know before I called my midwife a month later to ask about the pain which turned out to be due to the internal stitches pulling. Yes now with hindsight I, and I think also the midwife, may have done some things differently possibly with different outcomes, but I've tried to make peace with the decisions that were made and which at the time seemed to be the best options.

Not sure how much sense that makes or how relevant it may be for your situation and sorry it's a bit long. I guess I've just been thinking a lot on the different perspective that hindsight brings and how in hindsight there are many aspects of my son's birth that I wish had gone differently, but I've found that looking at it from that perspective isn't helpful for me and realizing that each decision was made at the time for good reason brings me more peace and acceptance.

Good luck sorting through it all and best of luck for next time!

[Dot Face]

Thank you guys for the comforting words. And sorry that you guys have also experienced similar, it sucks.

Nyigi I know what you mean but I think I should have clarified; I meant I would have liked to have received information after the procedures about why they were necessary. Of course if they, for whatever reason, felt it was necessary to do them ASAP they couldn't explain what was going on but some debriefing would have been good. Ah well. I think I'll need to go over my birth notes to see exactly what happened.

[Tegam]

Oh Dot Face I am so sorry you are experiencing any negative feelings. From experience i have found that hospital notes only fill in some of the holes but not many.


I had a beautiful Homebirth (free birth) with my 3rd baby. It was quick and sadly the midwife should have made it but didnt think anything was happening with me. This in turn made my husband feel that the $5000 was wasted and by the time we fell pregnant with my 4th he had decided that we wouldn't waste that money again. Even tho everything worked our perfectly with the free birth DH didn't think he wanted to risk it again. We had had two lovely hospital births before the Homebirth so weren't that off put by having another at hospital, except we had moved states and the cs rates at this new hospital are out of control. In early pregnancy I thought I knew enough about the system to be ok...... I also confident to free birth if that's what happened. But entering the system was a huge mistake. First the pressured me about my early labours (all between 36-38weeks) then my fast labours, then that I was at huge risk of PPH as it was my 4th bub and 6th pregnancy, then they said my baby was small then they said that I didn't have enough fluid....

I get terrible per labour where I muck around for days and days. I went to the hospital the night before my 4th was born, I was 3cm but it then all died down. I decided to leave the hospital as they said they wanted to break my waters.... The next morning after NO sleep for a few days I was phone by the ob who saw me the day before, telling me to come in, I said no, then her boss called me, then a Mw from the ward and then the NUM and finally the head OB. seriously 5 phone calls telling me I was putting myself and the baby in danger. I remember walking up to my husband, broken and saying we "had to go in". I agreed to monitoring and an internal to see if I was any further along.

They did an internal and without permission broke my waters, all proud of themselves that I'd probably have the baby within 30mins now, weren't they clever

Nothing happened, they did another internal and I was 5cm but felt fine, then another (no idea why) and I was 9cm. I then got pushy but knew something was wrong, I was standing beside the bed, I had 4midwives a student Mw and a dr in the room cause I was going to be such a quick birth, all without my permission, I remember looking up feeling like I was a circus freak. I simply yelled "I'm telling you something is wrong"

They did another internal and I was massively swollen, the last internal at 9cm was done with latex gloves and I have an allergy that they had forgotten about

The story gets a whole lot worst but I'm still not ready to discuss the next 2.5hrs. To say it was the worse experience of my life is an understatement and to have that terror associate with the birth of my dd kills me with guilt.

I had done it three times before, I had supported three women to VBAC before, I am a nurse.....

I lost my voice and had no one on my side.

I am still very much not over this experience. I still have enormous issues with my DH about it. Something he almost gets now after years of he explaining. He has never ever let me down, except then.... But ultimately I feel it's my fault and someone that only I cold have change.

I always wanted one more birth to heal from dd's. but this pregnancy hasn't helped at all. It's making me deal with those feelings and that's hard, most of the time I ignore it all. My Mw wants to book in the planning meeting but I'm just not ready. I am terrified of birth and I have never ever felt that way before. All I know is I can not go to a hospital. In fact I don't think I want anyone near me or touching me. I think. Want to be outside just to prove to myself how much I am NOT in a hospital.



Well what an essay that ended up being, not sure it helps you but I think I said all that to show you that you can never be your own voice in hospital. Please get a doula or IM. Someone that knows you well and will be there solely for you!

[Cassius2]

I am still very much not over this experience. I still have enormous issues with my DH about it. Something he almost gets now after years of he explaining. He has never ever let me down, except then.... But ultimately I feel it's my fault and someone that only I cold have change.

I always wanted one more birth to heal from dd's. but this pregnancy hasn't helped at all. It's making me deal with those feelings and that's hard, most of the time I ignore it all. My Mw wants to book in the planning meeting but I'm just not ready. I am terrified of birth and I have never ever felt that way before. All I know is I can not go to a hospital. In fact I don't think I want anyone near me or touching me. I think. Want to be outside just to prove to myself how much I am NOT in a hospital.



Well what an essay that ended up being, not sure it helps you but I think I said all that to show you that you can never be your own voice in hospital. Please get a doula or IM. Someone that knows you well and will be there solely for you!

i had a PTSD after DD1s birth and yeah, the planning and even just the pg sent me into a whirlwind of memories and triggers and despair. have you anyone near you to help you through it at all? I saw a psychologist that was all about baby/birth related trauma stuff and it was invaluable. She helped show me that actually planning the new pgs journey would help me get on top of the feelings and memories as NO MATTER WHAT it was going to be a different and better journey, come what may. I hope you find that place soon too xx

[~phyrephly~]

Hugs to all those healing from their birth journeys...

My first birth was a planned HB but I went to hospital to be induced. My MW was excellent, it was an ok hospital birth, OB was respectful of my transfer plan. But yeah, still took ages to work through.

And like you Tegam DP thought what a waste of $5000! So this time around I have had to really advocate for myself with him to have this HB. Which is why I am working so long up to due date to afford the HB as DP refuses to pay for it :/ Lucky my MW will do shared care so I only have to pay for the birth itself and a few appts outside of it.

[HotI]

All I know is I can not go to a hospital. In fact I don't think I want anyone near me or touching me. I think. Want to be outside just to prove to myself how much I am NOT in a hospital.

i am sorry that you went through that Tegam. I spent time during DS' labour outside in the garden, and was comforted greatly by feeling the breeze and smelling the grass. Only when i read your post did i realise that I too was probably reassuring myself that i was home and in a safe place.

i met my IM when i was going through the hospital complaint process, and so she was aware of my experience when she supported my in the births of #2 and #3. I laboured and birthed without being touched by anyone. Please let those around you know that you don't want to be touched.

I didn't get my home water birth which I've gotten over but I find myself sometimes going over my birth and getting frustrated about having an episiotomy, my son being delivered via ventouse, him being suctioned after birth (this especially makes me cringe and really upset), and having syntocin for the placenta. I've tried talking to dh about it but he just goes quiet and doesn't know what to say. I am annoyed mainly that all those things were done without my permission and without being informed why they were necessary. I am considering hiring a doula for my next birth so I have someone to speak up for me as both dh and I are easily intimidated by medical staff.

I am sorry things were done to you and your baby without permission. There is no justification for not letting you know why they wanted to do something, and for not asking for your permission before acting. Have you considered making a complaint to the hospital or health commissioner?
Your notes may provide some answers, but are often found to be incomplete or inaccurate. i found talking to a private midwife helpful to answer some of my questions, and to help decipher the hospital birth notes.

[Dot Face]

Oh Tegam I'm so sorry that sounds horrible and it makes me SO EXTREMELY angry at the stupid staff who broke your waters and forgot your allergy and used latex gloves! I would love to say that I would punch them if I saw them but unfortunately I'm not that brave. I will just imagine punching them instead (perhaps it's time to make a few voodoo dolls).

Hotl thank you, I wouldn't want to write to them because I have this sick feeling they'll just brush it off and make excuses for themselves and make me feel inferior for even voicing my concerns. However the midwife who attended my birth was absolutely fantastic (she had to leave before I actually gave birth though as her shift finished) so I might call in and ask to see her sometime soon. I think I really need to go over what happened so I can have some closure.

Thanks a lot everyone and again it sucks that you guys also had cruddy experiences at some point. *hugs*

[meow]

Oh Dot Face I'm so, so sorry you are facing this I think you have had some lovely words of encouragement already and I'm also so sorry to all the other women who have suffered birth trauma.

Tegam it breaks my heart to read about your experience too. Please don't say this is your fault. Abuse is NEVER the fault of the abused. It is up to the people working in these god damned hospitals to pick up their game and stop treating women like this!

Can I just say how very much I appreciate this thread and all of you wonderful women at the moment! It is such a blessing to be able to come in here and share our experiences and ask for help and to receive thoughtful, kind responses xx

AFM I have bitten the bullet and sent out some feeler emails to a few MWs this morning. Still also preparing for a conversation with my MW at my appointment in a week but I'll feel better to start exploring my options and know I have access to other MWs who are still available at my due date so I don't feel trapped if it comes to that. We're going camping this weekend (in a tent cabin so still a mattress on a bed frame thankfully!) so it'll be a lovely chance to get offline for a bit in nature and enjoy my family

[nyigi]

Hugs to everyone who's had such awful experiences.
Yes DotFace, I'd already realised that there was a difference there. That's why I thought it might not be relevant.
I've just often wondered about my transfer and in the end the only way I could let go of some of the things that happened or the way they were dealt with was to see that at each step of the way everyone had been trying to do the best they could and there was no intention of harm.

Of course no one should be treated in the ways many of you have described and I've certainly seen some horrible things in the hospital system and the medical system more generally. Sometimes I think the system encourages nurses and doctors (who I'm sure all start out with the best intentions) to just stop seeing 'patients' as 'people'.

I see very little reason for birth to be included in the general medical system. No one is sick and nothing is wrong and things just seem to go down hill when someone comes in with the thinking that there is a patient with a problem that needs solving as quickly as possible.

(Really wish I could join you guys and birth this baby at home. I think it's fantastic what you are all doing, especially in Aus where homebirth doesn't yet seem to be so well accepted. Best wishes to you all)

[Lady-bug]

to those who have had unpleasant experiences, I've been there too, unnecessary c/section for my first for 'failure to progress' after 8 hours I was angry and just really sad for a long time but at the same time, I don't think I would have ever chosen a homebirth with our second so in a weird way I'm glad it worked out the way it did (I realise how bizarre that sounds)

I have been feeling like I'm not in the right head space for birth. (I know I've still got a fair bit of time) so I watched The Face of Birth last night and already I feel so much better. I'm going to start preparing my birth space too. I want some nice 'bits and pieces' to go on some draws that will be in the room and maybe some affirmations up on the walls. Anyone got any suggestions? Or want to share what they included in their birth space?

Meow-You sound much calmer with your plan. I hope you enjoy your camping weekend, nothing like being out in nature.

[Dot Face]

Lady bug, something which helped me during labour was telling myself over and over in my head "this is temporary, it will be over soon." During contractions the midwives weren't letting me push despite the desperate urge to do so and I kept thinking "just a few more seconds...hold it just a few more seconds" while my midwife was reminding me to breathe. That also helped me, I found.

ETA: and I also remember thinking "well the pain isn't so bad that I want to die or not exist" lol it also helped put things in perspective.