Long Term TTC & Assisted Conception ~ December 2006

[Violet Star]

I feel rather bad as I siad im here, and then havnt come back again since. Well have had my hormonal and routine bloods taken. So far all I know there are some things the dr wants to discuss with me. Thats all the receptionsist would say. So then self diagnoised with about a million things that could be wrong. Managed to work through not making another appointment. Ive had an external ultra sounds and a transvaginal one done too. I cant change anything but will find out tomorrow what is actually going on. DH is being supportive.
I guess off all the things the DR said Ive had to do, ive done so far, so all will be revealed tomorrow. Less than 24 hours to go!

Hope all you girls are going well all considering everything.

[briggsy's girl]

summer - good luck with your appointment tomorrow - will be so much better to have an actual diagnosis rather than all the things we all tend to self-diagnose!

willow - thanks for the info re the nasal spray - started it this morning, and by the time i drove half hour to work i was feeling pretty ordinary - but i'm not sure if it was the spray or being at work that did it! i'll have to see how things progress the next few days. as you said, the taste is pretty ordinary, but i figure if i clean my teeth around the same time, it shouldn't linger too long!

to everyone else - would love to do more personals, but have a heap to do and DH is almost finished cooking dinner - might pop back later tonight!

[Megan]

Hope your appt goes well tomorrow Summer

[iris]

Good luck tomorrow Summer.

[TwoMums]

Hi Girls,

I know i'm really a clomid/IUI girl now but i think it may only be temporarily. I took the 50mg from day 3 to 7 and i had the day 11 ultrasound yesterday. Results were 1 x 18mm and 2 x 14mm follies. Triggered last night and IUI tommorow morning.

Doctor says that it was a pretty good result considering i am a poor responder to stimulants (First cycle got 2 follies on 150iu and 8 follies on 300iu of Gonal F). Along with the fact that my estogen on my natural cycle in november was only 520 and this time it is 1600!!!

Even tho it appears that i have 3 good follies, my doctor said that next time i should really have another go at IVF with ICSI due to my poor egg quality....(only 2 out of the 8 eggs fertilised, and they grew slowly, only 4 and 5 cells on day 3).

So at the moment Kim and I are thinking of taking a break, losing some weight, and saving up for another IVF/ICSI cycle. Not really sure about the ICSI tho. Maybe it will help with my eggs being slow, maybe my eggs use up all their enegy fertilising which could be energy saved with ICSI. Or maybe all my eggs will be toast by getting ICSI...really hard to decide.

Kind of thought that after having the HSG and flushing my tubes that i would be able to conceive without IVF eventually....when my doc mentioned the donor sperm he said he had two vials left, one for this insemination and that i should think about doing IVF with the last vial, or just throwing the towel in. Then he said the fact that we were back in his office that we sort of didnt want to do that.

I felt a little upset at that comment, i mean i have really only had 3 tries at conceiving with him. Maybe he thinks that i really dont have much of a chance at all of ever conceiving or maybe they dont want to waste anymore sperm on me...I just feel really confused at the moment.

Sorry about the down post ...

[Hollybolly]

Hi Ladies!!!

Just thought I would pop in and say a quick hello to you all.

Megan - Can I just say that I can't believe what your doctor has said to you!!!!
You really haven't had that many attempts enough for him to tell you to think about calling it quits.... God, there are women you hear stories about (and books and tv shows for that matter) that have that many goes you wonder how they still have a functioning reproductive system... and then they end up with a baby at the end........ Whatever you guys do, don't let you doctor allow you to feel negative enough to give up hope.
If and when you guys decide to give up, let it be because thats what you guys have decided - and for your own reasons - not because one doctor out of thousands made you feel like you should doubt yourselves.....
Some doctors make me so mad... they are clever enough to do the job, but bedside manner and personality they just don't have a clue!!
Don't give up.... and change doctors

Hi to everyone else - Also I just wanted to say how wonderful everyone on this site is.... I had a look at another site someone had recommended to me, and thought I would post a question or two.... In one of my posts I ended up trying to answer a ladies question, and afterwards I finished the post by saying

"you think after 4 yrs & 4 cycles of IVF I would know more, but I don't, I'm sorry"

Anyway.... a lady posted a reply last night telling me not to complain about 4 yrs and 4 cycles... she told me my experience is nothing, that she'd been doing it longer and that I didn't know what heartache was yet...and to try for another 4 yrs before I did any more complaining or venting....... CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?????!!!!!

I wasn't complaining anyway... just merely pointing out that although I've been doing this for a while now, I still really don't know that much to give this other woman better advice!!!

Oh well, what can you do???!!!!

Thanks so much to all of you ladies for always being so wonderful!!!!
I think I'll just stay here in the safety and comfort of BB from this point on!!!

Hope you guys are all doing ok - Much hugs and best wishes to all of you cycling at the moment xxxx

Holly xxx

[sushee]

Holly,

OMG on how rude that lady was! Honestly, how would she know about what heartache you've had? How presumptious of her!

Megan (TwoMums) I don't think your Dr has a very good bedside manner at all. As someone who did, well, a lot of cycles, all my FS ever said was 'it takes time', 'it's a numbers game', 'we'll try everything and will keep going for as long as you want', 'all it takes is one embryo to succeed'.

These are the things you need to hear to help stoke the huge reserve of strength you need to stay on this rollercoaster.

Maybe he thinks that i really dont have much of a chance at all of ever conceiving or maybe they dont want to waste anymore sperm on me

I don't blame you for being upset, but you deserve every chance possible of conceiving, so don't let some insensitive medico tell you otherwise!

[iris]

Megan if your FS has that type of attitude maybe it would be best to find someone else. If he's not supportive or positive than how can you be. Good luck!

Holly I have been on a Cystic Fibrosis site where I was attacked for simply asking a question about other parents who decided to have more children when they have a child with CF. I was basically told that I was morally corupt for even considering it. After a few days of arguing I never posted on that site again. I never understand why people get so angry on forums, its so easy to just ignore it if you don't agree, unlike if they were in your face. Anyway like you said its better to stick with BB!

[butterfly_warrior]

Iris and Holly, I simply cannot believe that other people can behave in such a way! I guess it is one of those things that makes belly belly stand out as such an amazingly helpful and supportive place!

Twomums, I think if my doctor said things like that to me, I'd be seriously wanting to hit him, or at least switch doctors! It must be tough trying to decide what to do in that situation.

I'm through the first week of my incredible dietary torture - and I've lost 2kg! My acupuncturist is really pleased with how I'm going, and how effective the FS's diet has been (I didn't do anywhere near so well on the one she put me on!), and says she can see that I look thinner than I did last week - mainly because my face is starting to lose the puffy, bloated look I've been sporting for a while. The current plan now involves getting DH in for some treatments (and she's going to try to nag him into following the same diet I'm on) to get him fitter, healthier and hopefully improve his sperm as much as we are able to without getting the varicocele repair done. We can't get DH into a new specialist until April, and I don't feel entirely comfortable with marching into ICSI without doing something to improve things. I snuck a tiny bit of chocolate today, that I'm going to completely ignore and just not record it in the food diary ( don't tell my FS!), and funnily enough I didn't really enjoy it that much! It seems that carrot sticks are now officially better than chocolate!

After a rough few days feeling really down about the insulin results and the delay in starting IVF, I'm feeling positive about things again. Probably because I'm really starting to see the difference that it is making in terms of how I feel, and the advantage of having the time to mentally prepare for IVF before jumping in and starting.

BW

[TwoMums]

Ok it was all in my head... call it another clomid symptom or how it manifests in one like myself, paranoia and anxiety...but i sorted all the maybes out from the last post with my Dr. But thank you all for your comments, it helped me with confronting my doctor about what he really meant.

He said that we would have to pick out another donor after the next try, because there is none left from this guy... so if we really wanted a pregnancy from this donor, that we should try IVF with ICSI with the last vial. Gee if i had of known that i would have said that at this stage, im not fussy about the donor...

He said that it was obvious that because we were in his office that we didnt want to give up and throw the towel in after this IUI, so he thinks the best thing to do would be have the IVF/ICSI with the last vial.

I told him that i haven't really had that many IUI's yet, and if we had to choose another donor from the US ($400 per vial) we would... but he told me that with low egg quality i could be doing IUI for a really long time before i conceive and that it would cost me a fortune where as in his opinion, i had a better chance having a baby by doing the ICSI with my eggs past history, no matter what sperm i chose.

I mean he is thinking of the expense side of things for me... at the moment it costs us $580 with a rebate from medicare of $480, so about $100 each IUI. But once i run out of the aussie donor sperm, it will be another $400 for the sperm, so $500 out of pocket each attempt... which is better than $2000 odd out of pocket each IVF cycle if you ask me. Thats 4 IUI cycles. Doing an IUI cycle every 2 months, thats only $250 a month!!

His point is that i could do a lot more than 4 IUI cycles before i get pregnant, and i'm not getting any younger and neither are my eggs. (My mother went through early menopause at 33). He thinks that one successful IVF/ICSI cycle is better than numerous unsuccessful IUI cycles. This is so much info and stuff to think about, i can't get my head around it anymore...I just dont know what to do...

[Willow]

Hi ladies, just thought I'd pop in and let you know how i'm going - not so hot really. I am not responding well to the injectoins and yesterday my FS doubled my dose - to 300iu :eek:

I had a massive panic attack/meltdown last night but after a session of acupuncture today (my first) I am feeling better.

Did any of you experience this - a slow response to begin with and then an increased dose? I am trying not to lose hope here.

Holly - I cannot agree with you more about other forums. There is another site I sometimes visit but rarely post, and I can guarantee every time i log on there are people abusing each other, judging each other and generally just being nasty! I have not once seen this on BB. Sure people disagree, but it doesn't turn into an all out slinging match!

I love BB

[briggsy's girl]

willow - so sorry you're struggling at the moment. i know it's hard when you're thrown a curve ball, but i'm sure your FS is doing what he needs to - i'm wondering if maybe he's started you on a lower dose just to check your response to it all? i know sometimes a meltdown seems like the worst thing to happen - but i find that if i don't let it all out occassionally, i start going nuts (i'm so glad DH is massively supportive when they happen!)

TwoMums - i'm glad you got clarification of what your doc was talking about yesterday - at least you now have a clear pic of what he's looking at doing for you for treatment. Good luck with it all!

BW - WOW - you sound so much happier today - that's awesome - i'm glad things are looking up for you!

As for the sniping on the other forums - what's the point? i think you get so much more out of a supportive environment! if you're so opinionated that no one else is allowed their own point of view, you're not really the kind of person others want to talk to anyway!! i'm so glad everyone i've encountered so far on BB has been so welcoming and good natured.

as for me - i definitely think it was just work getting to me yesterday - not the spray. felt fine last night after taking it, then crook again today. everything at work has come to a head the last two days, so i'm a little freaked out by it all - i put in a formal complaint about one of my managers - and got feedback that she's to receive a written warning and further privacy breaches may result in loss of her job - i'm happy that they've taken me seriously in my issues, but dreading the fallout when it all hits the fan next week! feeling pretty ok tonight - no work for a couple of days now (well, i still have to paint, but that's not really work....!) - yay!!

[butterfly_warrior]

BG, stay strong! Remember she's the one who has done the wrong thing, not you. If she's going to so blatantly do the wrong thing, then something does need to be said. I went through hell with my job last year, so I do know how it feels! Hang in there, but take time off when you need it.

Willow, the acupuncture is amazing stuff! I'm glad it has helped, and I'm glad you are feeling better. I too hit a really rough patch earlier this week, I've generally picked myself up, but I can go through moments in a day where I'm so positive and happy that this is the right way to go... and then I can suddenly switch and get all the frustration back.

Twomums, clomid did a number on my state of mind, too. I ended up off work for a week on stress leave after a complete break down at work, and on top of that it didn't make me ovulate! I hope it does work for you and that the IUI does the trick. Is there any reason you are reluctant to do the ICSI? My FS told me that I'd be doing it anyway, regardless of how good my DH's sperm was, as it gives a better result with my PCOS. It's all a very steep learning curve at the moment!

BW

[Violet Star]

Well girls, check out my new signature! So i really so belong in here. Even after all the self diagnosing, actually being told still hurts like hell. I managed to compose myself in the surgery, waited well all my test results all were printed out, got my scans and got the car before it was all too much. Yes I know you can do things about it, but its still not fair
So after a nights sleep. went and by some chance in the local dept. store saw a low Gi guide to managing PCOS. Well it was wonderful written write up to the part where it says "women with pcos who do get pregnant stand a 40% chance of spontaneous miscarriage in the first 3 months of pregnancy. I had to stop reading, nothing else is sinking in apart from those words. Not only am I having trouble conceiving and now been offically told, now if i manage I have 40% chance of not keeping it.

I read all of your posts even if Im not personally replying yet, and I dont know how you do it. Your inner strength is something I long to have.

[butterfly_warrior]

Summer, those statistics are just heart-breaking, aren't they? It scares me half to death that we are going to spend so much money and go through so much just to get pregnant, and then with the PCOS there's a chance I might not keep it, add to that the increased risks that may be associated with my mystery arthritis type thing... It's scary! But the one big thing I have learned is that we need to stay positive and don't dwell on the numbers. Those stats are one of the reasons it's so important to try to keep hormones balanced - not only to help conception, but also to help our bodies hold on to those bubs!

I know it's a dark and scary place you are in right now, but we are here to help you through. That's not to say I'm completely out of the dark and scary place myself, but you've got to focus on the positives. I can't tell you how many women I know with PCOS who have beat this condition and have healthy bubs. Some of them aren't bubs any more either! One of my strongest supporters is my aunt who did the PCOS and AC thing over 20 years ago - I have two adult cousins now to prove that it can be beaten! Just remember that all the battles we have to fight simply mean that our children will be so cherished and valued when they do get here (and they will get here, for all of us!). This fight is going to make us better, stronger parents.

Loads more for you Summer.

BW

[Violet Star]

Well finally, was ready to vent as the appointment person wasnt calling back! but I now have an appointment time for the FS. And I was able to firstly get in quickly, secondly go with someone who Ive heard is very nice and good, thirdly at another location closer to me, and lastly, at an after work time. Time to crack open the champers (if i was a drinker) on managing all of those things. Its decreased the stress levels already and been told the gap payment too, which i was expecting to be a lot bigger.

[butterfly_warrior]

Great news, Summer! When's the appointment date?

I'm still grumping about the place after my encounter with the evil clinic nurse from hell - what sort of person tells you it's certainly not normal to have this bleeding, then tells you it could continue indefinitely and then tries to say DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT?!! gah!

BW

[briggsy's girl]

Summer

so glad you finally got your appointment date - isn't it awesome to get something sooner than you were expecting? my initial FS appt was going to be late Jan to early Feb if i went to his office in the city to see him - but he runs a clinic only 20k's from home - and i got an appointment there within 3 weeks!

BW - sorry you're not getting some decent info about what's going on with you - hang in there!

As for me, i guess i'm playing my own little waiting game - have BT's on 31st of Jan to see if the synarel is working the way it should - all going well, i'll be starting injections at the start of feb - til then, i gotta stay positive! have decided with everything going on at work that i'll just turn up and do my job - and look forward tot he end of the day - i used to want to go further and do more, but not any more - i take each day an hour at a time - and look forward to my days off!

hope you all had a great weekend - and remember - only three more days til australia day (and another long weekend for most of us!)