Is it selfish to want a big family if you aren't rich?

[turtleschell]

DH and I perceive the important things in life to be things like love, family, having a pure heart etc. We see material things and money to be the root of all evil, and we do everything we can not to get seduced by those kinds of things.
That said, I also want DD to have the opportunities I never did, eg plenty of extra curricular activities, holidays...
So if it was just the three of us, I could give DD everything, but I want many more children.
DH's family think I'm being naive, and that my children will feel neglected because we can't send them all to private schools and wear fancy shoes because there are so many kids.
I kind of think it's a stupid reason not to have more.
But I also see their point.
What do you think?
Did any of these factors influence the size of your family?

[littlelara]

I think you always find a way to get the things you deem important and to make it work.
I'm an only child and I did go to private school, but it was on scholarship. My mum scrimped and saved so I could go to camps because she thought it was important.
But from my point of view I can't ever imagine resenting NOT going to the school I did (love of learning comes from the home in my opinion) but I would have given anything for a warm home environment filled with love and siblings.
That said, we will be sticking with two, but not for financial reasons.
Would you regret not having more?

[MissM]

Ok, so here is my point of view:

I am selfish. It is that plain & simple.

I like to buy what I want when I want and not have to sacrifice what *I* want to buy, Of course being a parent there are sacrifices we all make, but having nice things is important to the both of us. We both like to spend, and we both like nice things. The world these days is so busy I dont know how people have large families (anymore than 2-3) We are so busy with one!

We also like to make sure we have enough money to buy DD and future children have nice things. (we only have one at the moment) DP and I both work full time, and honestly, I wouldnt have i any other way. DD does her extra curricular activities through school and we attend her performances. What would I do all day while the kids are at school? ITMS?

Anyways, I MIGHT have another 2 children, but we will see. I have to consider taking time off work, the expense of daycare @ 12mths old (possibly before 12 mths) and everyday living, as well as DD's extra curricular activities and her schooling expense.

DP and I think 3 is plenty (considering the age gap of DD already) and i refuse to drive a van

BTW - I hope no one is offended by my post - this is how *I* feel

[glenny_c]

Miss M- I don't think anyone will be offended- each to their own I say. People should do what is right for them.

Having said that- I am pretty much the complete opposite, I will happily continue having kids until the money runs out. I know that's easy for me to say when I haven't even had number one yet but DH and I are both very family oriented and have talked about how we want our family to look like from when we were early dating.

We are lucky in that DH earns a great wage so I can give up work, I am not interested in working while the kids are at home- I would feel very robbed (again- personal opinion). My sister and I both went to public school and we are both quite successful in our chosen careers, I don't feel like we were disadvantaged by not attended expensive private schools. I would love to have a tribe of kids, to me it doesn't matter if you can afford to buy the latest gadgets or toys for them, I feel that the love of family is going to mean more in the long run.

Turtlescell- I think you just have to do what you and your DH feel is right and important. There is no right or wrong answer, for some people one child (or none) is right for them and noone should feel pressured into having kids, or not having them, because of what other people say.

[beckoes]

i like to feel secure financially, which at the moment we are not, DH is unable to work due to injury, he will be working soon, (i hope) and we are about to have a second child. DH has been off work since August and we both agree that the time we have spent together as a family (with little money) has been amazing and we wouldnt swap it for the world! I think when you dont have those distractions you learn to enjoy and love and whole new set of things.
Having said that, once DH is working agian i have a huge list of things i want to do that we havent been able to do while the money has been tight!
a few years ago when DH and i were thinking about kidsand talking with somefriends of ours about wanting to wait till we were a bit more finacially serure first, i remember them both saying ''there is never a right time to hae kids, there will always be something to justify waiting'' i remember the look of love in thier faces when they looked at thier children and realised that waiting to have that was crazy! a few months later we were pregnant! i think you always find a way of managing!

[Pretty Butterfly]

Some awesome posts.... loved yours Trill!!!! .....and Onyx.....

I was honestly waiting for the backlash, being 2 adult 6 kids-possibly-seven family.. but you are all lovely AND realistic!!!

It DOES take careful planning, and you really have to make sure at LEAST one of you has an income, and not rely on Centrelink. And you need a back up plan!!

Working from home is great NOW, my kids are little and I get to be with them all the time.. but what happens when my youngest hits school, do I still want to be stuck in the house with others kids?? Nope.

So I am doing my cert III next year externally, and then my diploma. So by the year Harmony is in school, Ill be fully qualified and ready for the workforce!!
Adam is just now starting up his Web Design business , to go along with the paid work he is already in, (has 2 before chrissy already!!) so by the time I leave the house for work, he'll be able to stay home for school stuff or emergencies.

I dont think you can have a large family willy nilly, it does take planning and lots of consideration.

Back up plan, I can stay in FCD if I HAVE to.. it brings in a good income. So in that respect, if it comes down to it, my sacrafice may be not getting out into the workforce and staying at home much longer than planned.. but thats a small sacrifice to me, but may be a major one for someone else.

So its all relative my dear!!! For you a big family may be just the thing, but you will defiantly hit road blocks with family and friends, because it certainly isnt for everyone. But the choice is yours sweets!!! xoxoxo

[Tegam]

It DOES take careful planning, and you really have to make sure at LEAST one of you has an income, and not rely on Centrelink. And you need a back up plan!!

This should be the case with the first or the 7th!

[YoYo]

I am lucky that we are very financially stable. We worked hard to get to that position, moved countries in order to pay less tax. I don't think I am a materialistic person (Singapore definitely wasn't for me, as that is what it seems to be all about) and I, like everyone else, wants to give my children the best opportunity of a good stable future and the ability to experience extra curricular things....BUT just because we have the money, doesn't mean I just throw it around willy nilly and give them what they want when they want it. I want my kids to learn the value of money, that it's a necessity in life, but the world should not revolve around it. We still worked hard (well DH did the work, but I sacrifice too!) to get there, and I take care of the money we have. I don't think I want to have any more children....and wouldn't just do it because I can afford them. Life can change at the drop of a hat, so you have to be prepared for those things that life throws at you. I'm a big believer in a secret stash

People see money, in lots of different ways....one persons rich, could easily be another mans poor. I don't think you should go ahead and get pregnant if you can't afford shopping week to week, or if you're struggling to clothe the children you already have....but I wouldn't begrudge people that did do that, as long as they were happy to be doing it, and owned it as their conscious decision. Just because you WANT something, doesn't mean you should always get it.

[kyrawolfe]

I think "rich" "poor" and "large family" are all arbitrary statements
ive learned recently that between 70-90k a year is considered an average wage for alot of DH's, but before this I thought we were living quite well on 45k haha with me being a SAHM and hubby working 38 hours a week
I think you could be earning 100k a year and still be "poor"
Its not really just about what you earn, but how you manage your money, what kind of debt are you in etc etc

So is 45k a year too little for 2 kids? How about 3? This is a new wage we just got onto after having our second son for 7 months and surviving relatively comfortably on about 36k
I mean, again, you could be buying a house that is tiny, run down and unsuitable, or you could be buying a LARGE lavish house, or you could be renting a lovely house instead of buying a crappy one.. or on the worst case renting a crappy place lol
We are renting because we are unable to be passed for a loan at this point even if we wanted to.. not because we have a bad credit rating but simply because we dont earn enough to get a reasonable loan for a reasonable house. So we rent a nice place instead
We dont have EVERYTHING brand new.. Alot of our clothes are second hand (I use gumtree.com alot) But with kids clothes, especially so young, i dont really think it matters, besides the clothes are no different visually or quality wise to something new anyway
In saying that we also buy them new things fairly often on lay bys etc or for special occasions.

Shoes seems to be used alot here.. I buy one pair of expensive shoes for my 2, then A whole heap from kmart, cheap shoes stores, and second hand, there wardrobes are full of shoes haha

I understand as they get older the expenses will come rolling in, and they'll be eating us out of home etc etc.. But I think you can kind of roll with the punches here.. Being a SAHM is something I love doing, but if it came between them having food clothes and still being able to play sports, music, school fees, camps etc.. or me being at home with (a youngest?) I would definately choose to work but i mean, you can compromise and work part time to cover the costs so you can still spend alot of your time home with a little one.. and theres always the "talk" with DH about him getting better work so you can stay home longer..

I think everyone creates there own situations and how they deal with them. If you really want a big family.. and a serious about doing it maturely, then you will be able to create and manifest a way that works for you, with more money or less.. But when it comes down to it.. there are alot of things in life that we WANT rather then need.. it all depends what you prioritise i guess.. and who you prioritise.. put your kids first and you can sacrifice other things to pay for them

We dont go out to the movies because they are too young to anyway, but we are forever at the park (free) going for walks together (free) visiting relatives (free) plus they have two dogs as well that we spend alot of money taking proper care of

We also have a car, its not flash, its old, but its safe and large enough for three should we have another.
There is also a 67k a yr job DH has been thinking about, if I were to get pregnant I would probably have to talk to him about that for the JIC reasoning
So aparently we are on quite a low income or "poor" but as far as I know we're doing fine? All bills always paid, 2 kids two dogs, renting nice house, car, oh and my oldest gos to kindy as well and plays sport, swimming etc.. dogs, and we quite often spend as well.. the other day we got a new tv just from savings we have away.. we always make sure we have a fair amount of savings away for a rainy day also.

So what is a poor income? What is a poor lifestyle? If your saying only on centrelink and nothing else, I totally agree.. But I think a wage is what you make it..

I may fall again at some point.. We are finished with 2, but EVERY single contraception method wev tried has had some sort of horribe side affect.. Im allergic to CD's both latex and non.. Always forget the pill and it causes rashes breakouts and craziness. and the implant ones send me crazy and depressed.. We dont want to snip snip either of us just yet so we are just "being carefull" but I dont really know how long the luck will last there. So its only really in our control to an extent.. but of course enough so that if it mattered we could make a final decision.. If I hypothetically had a 3rd then say DH was earning 67k.. If that still wouldnt be enough to make the changes wed need should a 4th come along, then I guess one of us would just have to consider the knife *shudders*

[Phteven]

I don't think it's selfish wanting a big family.
Money and material objects aren't going to make you happy (although I'd rather be sobbing in my porsche than in a kia ;p) and if you know that and you don't want 'things' then IMO you're already ahead of those people who define themselves by what they own.
I've got a pretty big family and I wouldn't swap any of my siblings for a flat screen TV (hmmmm maybe my little brother - jkz hehehe). It's heaps of fun having a big family and when I compare the extra material benefits I might have had growing up if I had less siblings against the benefits to me, as an adult, the big family wins. Also it's great for my children, they have oodles of cousins (and second cousins) and we arrange holidays together that are just awesome. Over the summer holidays we have rented a row of flats at the beach for all our families for a fortnight. I feel sorry for the neighbours because en masse we are loud lol.
Another benefit is that I know that if I'm in trouble that there are a bunch of people out there who have my back and it's nice to know that.

I love being home. I can't imagine going back to work. It's way more fun taking the boys out for babychinos lol. And when Imran is at school next year I can have an affair with my tennis instructor *makes mental note - book tennis lessons*

ETA - No need for a van for a big family. We've recently test driven the Audi Q7 and the Volvo CX 90. They are both awesome cars that fit 7 people in comfort.

[Maruschke]

Children cost money, but they don't have to be expensive. It's all about how you want to live and what you are willing to sacrifice.

You don't need to buy all new clothes, hand me downs are fine.
You don't need to go out for dinner together once a week, every now and then picking up a pizza is fine.
You don't need brand new furniture, buy off ebay.

You get the point. I think if you want a big family, there are still ways to afford it. If you want a lavish life, you might not be able to do that with 4 kids unless you or DH have a very high income.

Me personally, I would put family before luxuries. Which is why we are moving to the 'burbs, by second hand furniture and clothes, eat cheap, live cheap.

HTH

[Feijoa Mum]

I dont think you have to be rich. What I get back from my kids is far more than any dollar amount I have put into them.

I want my kids to have everything I didnt. I was one of four with a solo Mum who did so very well with us but money was impossibly tight. There was no extras in our house and I did grow up resenting that. Not fully understanding of course until I was older but I just remember hating been "poor"

I miss out now, my kids dont. Thats not to say they are spoilt but I go without the new clothes so they can have the label clothes for their birthdays, I colour my own hair so they get a new Ipod or DS for xmas.
I spend hours baking and cooking from scratch so the cupboards always have yummy food in them.
We dont have huge family holidays so they have their school camps and Canberra trips.
Im sure my kids still think at times they are "so hard done by" but show me a child that doesnt at some time or other?

Its my sacrifice (although I dont like to use that word) for choosing to have my big
family.
Money does not make a family big or small.

[angelaartsstudent]

I think it is selfish that some people have a gazillion kids with the plan to never work again and get lots and lots of centrelink and baby bonuses. Then spend the baby bonus on booze, cigarettes and flat screen TVs and not actually bring their kids up with love and care. This type of person sadly does exist.

I agree that kids DON'T have to cost a fortune. 99% of Palmer's toys and clothes (the 1% remaining being gifts from family) are second hand. She slept in a cheap porta-cot for 17 months and now is in a hand-me-down single bed. The bed I had in my room at Mum's house! Her bottles (she was FF) were even second hand. All her furniture - wardrobe, drawers, bookcase, bedside table is 2nd hand. Daycare is exxy though, of course. We purposefully (sp) have not bought a house because at this time in life, renting is cheaper for us.

However, once number 2 is born I would like to go back to work ASAP (Becuase I am dying to go back to work, not becuase I am being forced to work) which will make things a bit easier financially....as we're on DHs income only at the moment (no CL or anything). We already have a 2nd hand cot for the new baby.

[Hollybolly]

I don't think its about being selfish or rich... I think its about you personally and what your expectations/limits/lifestyle/choices are.

DH & I have always wanted a big family - many hurdles to this stage (with IVF) but we're on track now
We'll look at trying for #3 around this time next year... we would prob have started trying already if we didn't need the help of IVF and its $6500 a try price tag

We're on the same page as far as wanting to have me at home permanently... we're lucky we have a business that can provide for us to do that financially... but at the same time, we've made a few changes in choices recently.

For example - DS1 starts high school next year & we have had him enrolled for a private school - the fees are really pricey, but for him and our situation, this school is whats best for him in our opinion.
To be able to afford to send him & for me to stay at home, something has to give, and so we're looking at moving house soon and dropping our weekly rent to free up a little money.

We choose to rent for now, as a mortgage would mean for me to need to work... and whilst the 'Great Australian Dream' of owning your own home is fantastic, for us, we've prioritised and Lukes schooling and me to be a stay at home parent is more important right now.

There are many other things as well... these are examples - but you get the point!

DH & I used to live quite a lavish lifestyle when it was just Luke and before 8yrs of IVF treatment, lol.... and whilst we don't live it up like we did, we still live quite nicely.

I think its important to weigh up what you want as far as a bigger picture, and find the balance... whatever works for you.

DH & I still go away every year for our anniversary, we still have lovely things, the boys don't miss out.... but we do live on the coast, which is not what we both would choose if money wasn't a concern.
We used to live in Neutral Bay in Sydney which is ridiculously expensive & pretentious... but we loved it
The decision to have a big family does not allow for living in Neutral Bay though, I'm afraid
So we moved up here and found the balance... still close enough to the city to be able to visit friends and shop in decent areas - just an hour drive on the freeway rather than sitting in traffic

Its not a secret we both struggle a little with living here, but we have a nice house and a backyard with a pool & a dog, and room for everything... as opposed to being squished & limited in a unit in the city...

Its worth the sacrifice though for whats more important to us

A lot of rambling, but hoping you see my point

[Tegam]

Love the topic

I am lucky that DH has worked very hard to achieve his dream career and earns a lovely wage, so i dont have to work. We always wanted a large family and even when we were in other careers and would have found it much more financially stressful, i know we still would have wanted a large number....

However funny as it sounds now we feel/felt like we had to push ourselves to have a large family just so we DIDNT spoil them rotten!

For us 4 is a great number. VERY busy, lovely for all the kids to have loads of sibilings and it pushes us to have to decide what is really important. So the kids get some but not none.

I remember a girlfriend telling me, oh thats it (when she had number 2) as they decided they wanted to give their kids EVERYTHING they wanted. I want to give my kids EVERYTHING the NEED and SOME of what they WANT!

Stuff what DH family says its your family that matters now!

[loulabelle]

Interesting thread, especially for me as it's a hot topic for dh and I right now.

I don't think you have to be rich at all, as long as you can have a roof over your head, a full belly and shoes on your feet it's ok.

If I couldn't afford the basic things then I wouldn't but, I don't think kids need new toys, new clothes and and private schools. Obviously it makes things easier but, I do not think it's the be all end all.

Personally, I think of it like this, I would rather have been born into love and happiness but little material things than never have been born at all. My parents were very far from wealthy when I was growing up. It hasn't made me wish for more, it hasn't made me angry at them because I wore my sisters hand me downs. I value my parents, see them as loving, hardworking and honest people. I thank them for showing me the meaning of hard work and a real appreciation for the finer things in life.

Just my two cents

[beansbeans!]

Personally I think money isn't a fair factor in deciding on the number of kids you want to have. You never know what your circumstances will be in the future, things could and probably will change dramatically. Different work, more money, less money. Either way you will be able to make it work.
I used to work at the customer admissions of a zoo before the girls came along. There you get used to seeing different family sizes. But one day this bus came in, I went up thinking it must have been a school excursion, but no it was a family. Whilst I was processing the family through I remarked on the size of the family, something like wow, you have a larger family, 2adults and 6children. The father replied 'oh no dear this isnt the whole family, we have 6 more children at home!'
I was shocked and asked him how they got to do things like go to the zoo etc. He said it was easy, the eldest 6 got to go when they were younger, now its the 6 youngest turn. He went on to say that the eldest ones all had jobs and if they wanted to come on that trip with them, they just had to contribute to the costs. Sounded fair to me!
Anyhow my point is I think you would always make it work.
For us at this point in time, we are happy with our two, yes we would like one more. And from there who knows.
We have a series of factors for us, but it isnt based on money as such. At the moment I know we can handle two, We as a family arent ready for a 3rd just yet. I would love to return to work before another one came along, and right now we move aound a lot and I want to be settled before we welcome another bub into our home.

[Sagres]

No I don't think it is selfish. I think it depends to what you want to be 'rich' in. If you want to be rich in possessions and labels and the like you probably should have less children, but if you want to be rich in love and family relationships and support then a larger family is a great option for you!
To me the things you would take away by having more children (possessions) are the things that aren't all that important to me, and the things you add (siblings to love and face life with, the support of a large family) are way more important.
Having said that I do realise that not everyone has the luxury of those options. I wouldn't say we are lucky (because it isn't luck, it is through hard work and smart decisions) but DH and I both have uni qualifications and had well paying careers so we have different options to what others have.