Is it selfish to want a big family if you aren't rich?

[MissM]

Ok, so here is my point of view:

I am selfish. It is that plain & simple.

I like to buy what I want when I want and not have to sacrifice what *I* want to buy, Of course being a parent there are sacrifices we all make, but having nice things is important to the both of us. We both like to spend, and we both like nice things. The world these days is so busy I dont know how people have large families (anymore than 2-3) We are so busy with one!

We also like to make sure we have enough money to buy DD and future children have nice things. (we only have one at the moment) DP and I both work full time, and honestly, I wouldnt have i any other way. DD does her extra curricular activities through school and we attend her performances. What would I do all day while the kids are at school? ITMS?

Anyways, I MIGHT have another 2 children, but we will see. I have to consider taking time off work, the expense of daycare @ 12mths old (possibly before 12 mths) and everyday living, as well as DD's extra curricular activities and her schooling expense.

DP and I think 3 is plenty (considering the age gap of DD already) and i refuse to drive a van

BTW - I hope no one is offended by my post - this is how *I* feel

[glenny_c]

Miss M- I don't think anyone will be offended- each to their own I say. People should do what is right for them.

Having said that- I am pretty much the complete opposite, I will happily continue having kids until the money runs out. I know that's easy for me to say when I haven't even had number one yet but DH and I are both very family oriented and have talked about how we want our family to look like from when we were early dating.

We are lucky in that DH earns a great wage so I can give up work, I am not interested in working while the kids are at home- I would feel very robbed (again- personal opinion). My sister and I both went to public school and we are both quite successful in our chosen careers, I don't feel like we were disadvantaged by not attended expensive private schools. I would love to have a tribe of kids, to me it doesn't matter if you can afford to buy the latest gadgets or toys for them, I feel that the love of family is going to mean more in the long run.

Turtlescell- I think you just have to do what you and your DH feel is right and important. There is no right or wrong answer, for some people one child (or none) is right for them and noone should feel pressured into having kids, or not having them, because of what other people say.

[beckoes]

i like to feel secure financially, which at the moment we are not, DH is unable to work due to injury, he will be working soon, (i hope) and we are about to have a second child. DH has been off work since August and we both agree that the time we have spent together as a family (with little money) has been amazing and we wouldnt swap it for the world! I think when you dont have those distractions you learn to enjoy and love and whole new set of things.
Having said that, once DH is working agian i have a huge list of things i want to do that we havent been able to do while the money has been tight!
a few years ago when DH and i were thinking about kidsand talking with somefriends of ours about wanting to wait till we were a bit more finacially serure first, i remember them both saying ''there is never a right time to hae kids, there will always be something to justify waiting'' i remember the look of love in thier faces when they looked at thier children and realised that waiting to have that was crazy! a few months later we were pregnant! i think you always find a way of managing!

[Pretty Butterfly]

Some awesome posts.... loved yours Trill!!!! .....and Onyx.....

I was honestly waiting for the backlash, being 2 adult 6 kids-possibly-seven family.. but you are all lovely AND realistic!!!

It DOES take careful planning, and you really have to make sure at LEAST one of you has an income, and not rely on Centrelink. And you need a back up plan!!

Working from home is great NOW, my kids are little and I get to be with them all the time.. but what happens when my youngest hits school, do I still want to be stuck in the house with others kids?? Nope.

So I am doing my cert III next year externally, and then my diploma. So by the year Harmony is in school, Ill be fully qualified and ready for the workforce!!
Adam is just now starting up his Web Design business , to go along with the paid work he is already in, (has 2 before chrissy already!!) so by the time I leave the house for work, he'll be able to stay home for school stuff or emergencies.

I dont think you can have a large family willy nilly, it does take planning and lots of consideration.

Back up plan, I can stay in FCD if I HAVE to.. it brings in a good income. So in that respect, if it comes down to it, my sacrafice may be not getting out into the workforce and staying at home much longer than planned.. but thats a small sacrifice to me, but may be a major one for someone else.

So its all relative my dear!!! For you a big family may be just the thing, but you will defiantly hit road blocks with family and friends, because it certainly isnt for everyone. But the choice is yours sweets!!! xoxoxo

[Tegam]

It DOES take careful planning, and you really have to make sure at LEAST one of you has an income, and not rely on Centrelink. And you need a back up plan!!

This should be the case with the first or the 7th!

[Pretty Butterfly]

True!!!! LOL

[YoYo]

I am lucky that we are very financially stable. We worked hard to get to that position, moved countries in order to pay less tax. I don't think I am a materialistic person (Singapore definitely wasn't for me, as that is what it seems to be all about) and I, like everyone else, wants to give my children the best opportunity of a good stable future and the ability to experience extra curricular things....BUT just because we have the money, doesn't mean I just throw it around willy nilly and give them what they want when they want it. I want my kids to learn the value of money, that it's a necessity in life, but the world should not revolve around it. We still worked hard (well DH did the work, but I sacrifice too!) to get there, and I take care of the money we have. I don't think I want to have any more children....and wouldn't just do it because I can afford them. Life can change at the drop of a hat, so you have to be prepared for those things that life throws at you. I'm a big believer in a secret stash

People see money, in lots of different ways....one persons rich, could easily be another mans poor. I don't think you should go ahead and get pregnant if you can't afford shopping week to week, or if you're struggling to clothe the children you already have....but I wouldn't begrudge people that did do that, as long as they were happy to be doing it, and owned it as their conscious decision. Just because you WANT something, doesn't mean you should always get it.

[kyrawolfe]

I think "rich" "poor" and "large family" are all arbitrary statements
ive learned recently that between 70-90k a year is considered an average wage for alot of DH's, but before this I thought we were living quite well on 45k haha with me being a SAHM and hubby working 38 hours a week
I think you could be earning 100k a year and still be "poor"
Its not really just about what you earn, but how you manage your money, what kind of debt are you in etc etc

So is 45k a year too little for 2 kids? How about 3? This is a new wage we just got onto after having our second son for 7 months and surviving relatively comfortably on about 36k
I mean, again, you could be buying a house that is tiny, run down and unsuitable, or you could be buying a LARGE lavish house, or you could be renting a lovely house instead of buying a crappy one.. or on the worst case renting a crappy place lol
We are renting because we are unable to be passed for a loan at this point even if we wanted to.. not because we have a bad credit rating but simply because we dont earn enough to get a reasonable loan for a reasonable house. So we rent a nice place instead
We dont have EVERYTHING brand new.. Alot of our clothes are second hand (I use gumtree.com alot) But with kids clothes, especially so young, i dont really think it matters, besides the clothes are no different visually or quality wise to something new anyway
In saying that we also buy them new things fairly often on lay bys etc or for special occasions.

Shoes seems to be used alot here.. I buy one pair of expensive shoes for my 2, then A whole heap from kmart, cheap shoes stores, and second hand, there wardrobes are full of shoes haha

I understand as they get older the expenses will come rolling in, and they'll be eating us out of home etc etc.. But I think you can kind of roll with the punches here.. Being a SAHM is something I love doing, but if it came between them having food clothes and still being able to play sports, music, school fees, camps etc.. or me being at home with (a youngest?) I would definately choose to work but i mean, you can compromise and work part time to cover the costs so you can still spend alot of your time home with a little one.. and theres always the "talk" with DH about him getting better work so you can stay home longer..

I think everyone creates there own situations and how they deal with them. If you really want a big family.. and a serious about doing it maturely, then you will be able to create and manifest a way that works for you, with more money or less.. But when it comes down to it.. there are alot of things in life that we WANT rather then need.. it all depends what you prioritise i guess.. and who you prioritise.. put your kids first and you can sacrifice other things to pay for them

We dont go out to the movies because they are too young to anyway, but we are forever at the park (free) going for walks together (free) visiting relatives (free) plus they have two dogs as well that we spend alot of money taking proper care of

We also have a car, its not flash, its old, but its safe and large enough for three should we have another.
There is also a 67k a yr job DH has been thinking about, if I were to get pregnant I would probably have to talk to him about that for the JIC reasoning
So aparently we are on quite a low income or "poor" but as far as I know we're doing fine? All bills always paid, 2 kids two dogs, renting nice house, car, oh and my oldest gos to kindy as well and plays sport, swimming etc.. dogs, and we quite often spend as well.. the other day we got a new tv just from savings we have away.. we always make sure we have a fair amount of savings away for a rainy day also.

So what is a poor income? What is a poor lifestyle? If your saying only on centrelink and nothing else, I totally agree.. But I think a wage is what you make it..

I may fall again at some point.. We are finished with 2, but EVERY single contraception method wev tried has had some sort of horribe side affect.. Im allergic to CD's both latex and non.. Always forget the pill and it causes rashes breakouts and craziness. and the implant ones send me crazy and depressed.. We dont want to snip snip either of us just yet so we are just "being carefull" but I dont really know how long the luck will last there. So its only really in our control to an extent.. but of course enough so that if it mattered we could make a final decision.. If I hypothetically had a 3rd then say DH was earning 67k.. If that still wouldnt be enough to make the changes wed need should a 4th come along, then I guess one of us would just have to consider the knife *shudders*

[Indadhanu]

Actually that is a really good point Kyra. We are on less than $40,000 annually. And yet we manage to save over $600 each month because we have no debt, so rich and poor are really subjective statements. No house either, we rent, but I'd rather be earning less than $30,000 a year and saving $600+ a month and have that waiting for when we are ready, than be earning $100,000 a year and be 'breaking even' each month but be paying off a home etc... So yes, great point.

[kyrawolfe]

I agree.. I think our values are often widely based on how we were raised as well.. You'll find alot of the people who just cannot live without private schools, heaps of extra curricular activities, buying big houses and needing lots of possesions were likely raised in fairly wealthy hmes themselves, or were taught that success is how you value your life. which isn't a bad value by any means! but those are the people who will be more likely to be sure they are making a mint before considering a large family, or just wont consider it if theyre not.

I totally agree 100% that not making a move to support your family is irresponsible and having lots of kids while not working or trying your best to provide for them is reckless and stupid.. I also agree that no matter how well planned out you cannot account for everything that could possibly happen (divorce, death etc) its all about what you do about it, rather then where you are..

I was raised out in the country on a farm with my parents sister and lots of animals, then when I was 10, DIVORCE happened and we went from I suppose upper middle class or quite wealthy to dirt poor..
Me and my sister ended up in a tiny unit no pets on a main road with our mum who worked her butt off just to get food on the table.
She didnt earn alot of money, but she did her best and provided for us. We had everything we needed and were happy

So I think theres a difference here between a dole mum who just doesnt care.. and a single mum who works hard but doesnt earn that much.. If your teaching your kids to appreciate what they have and the value of earning your money, if your feeding them, clothing them, getting them to school and taking care of them properly then its up to you how many you want. If you hate your situation when you have lots of kids and not much money.. tehn do something to earn more

anyway thats just my 2 cents lol this has turned out to be a very interesting topic for me

[Phteven]

I don't think it's selfish wanting a big family.
Money and material objects aren't going to make you happy (although I'd rather be sobbing in my porsche than in a kia ;p) and if you know that and you don't want 'things' then IMO you're already ahead of those people who define themselves by what they own.
I've got a pretty big family and I wouldn't swap any of my siblings for a flat screen TV (hmmmm maybe my little brother - jkz hehehe). It's heaps of fun having a big family and when I compare the extra material benefits I might have had growing up if I had less siblings against the benefits to me, as an adult, the big family wins. Also it's great for my children, they have oodles of cousins (and second cousins) and we arrange holidays together that are just awesome. Over the summer holidays we have rented a row of flats at the beach for all our families for a fortnight. I feel sorry for the neighbours because en masse we are loud lol.
Another benefit is that I know that if I'm in trouble that there are a bunch of people out there who have my back and it's nice to know that.

I love being home. I can't imagine going back to work. It's way more fun taking the boys out for babychinos lol. And when Imran is at school next year I can have an affair with my tennis instructor *makes mental note - book tennis lessons*

ETA - No need for a van for a big family. We've recently test driven the Audi Q7 and the Volvo CX 90. They are both awesome cars that fit 7 people in comfort.

[Maruschke]

Children cost money, but they don't have to be expensive. It's all about how you want to live and what you are willing to sacrifice.

You don't need to buy all new clothes, hand me downs are fine.
You don't need to go out for dinner together once a week, every now and then picking up a pizza is fine.
You don't need brand new furniture, buy off ebay.

You get the point. I think if you want a big family, there are still ways to afford it. If you want a lavish life, you might not be able to do that with 4 kids unless you or DH have a very high income.

Me personally, I would put family before luxuries. Which is why we are moving to the 'burbs, by second hand furniture and clothes, eat cheap, live cheap.

HTH

[Feijoa Mum]

I dont think you have to be rich. What I get back from my kids is far more than any dollar amount I have put into them.

I want my kids to have everything I didnt. I was one of four with a solo Mum who did so very well with us but money was impossibly tight. There was no extras in our house and I did grow up resenting that. Not fully understanding of course until I was older but I just remember hating been "poor"

I miss out now, my kids dont. Thats not to say they are spoilt but I go without the new clothes so they can have the label clothes for their birthdays, I colour my own hair so they get a new Ipod or DS for xmas.
I spend hours baking and cooking from scratch so the cupboards always have yummy food in them.
We dont have huge family holidays so they have their school camps and Canberra trips.
Im sure my kids still think at times they are "so hard done by" but show me a child that doesnt at some time or other?

Its my sacrifice (although I dont like to use that word) for choosing to have my big
family.
Money does not make a family big or small.

[angelaartsstudent]

I think it is selfish that some people have a gazillion kids with the plan to never work again and get lots and lots of centrelink and baby bonuses. Then spend the baby bonus on booze, cigarettes and flat screen TVs and not actually bring their kids up with love and care. This type of person sadly does exist.

I agree that kids DON'T have to cost a fortune. 99% of Palmer's toys and clothes (the 1% remaining being gifts from family) are second hand. She slept in a cheap porta-cot for 17 months and now is in a hand-me-down single bed. The bed I had in my room at Mum's house! Her bottles (she was FF) were even second hand. All her furniture - wardrobe, drawers, bookcase, bedside table is 2nd hand. Daycare is exxy though, of course. We purposefully (sp) have not bought a house because at this time in life, renting is cheaper for us.

However, once number 2 is born I would like to go back to work ASAP (Becuase I am dying to go back to work, not becuase I am being forced to work) which will make things a bit easier financially....as we're on DHs income only at the moment (no CL or anything). We already have a 2nd hand cot for the new baby.

[berrme]

I hate the notion that children have to have lots of material possessions to be happy and feel loved. There are 3 in my family and we had hardly any money when I was growing up, all went to public schools, didn't have designer clothes, but we were never bored. Dad is an only child, had plenty of money growing up, but would give anything to have had a brother or sister. I would choose family over stuff anyday.

I agree with Angelartstudent that it is selfish to have lots of children if you are already living off government benefits, but it isn't selfish to want a big family just because they won't have the fanciest clothes in the street.

[Hollybolly]

I don't think its about being selfish or rich... I think its about you personally and what your expectations/limits/lifestyle/choices are.

DH & I have always wanted a big family - many hurdles to this stage (with IVF) but we're on track now
We'll look at trying for #3 around this time next year... we would prob have started trying already if we didn't need the help of IVF and its $6500 a try price tag

We're on the same page as far as wanting to have me at home permanently... we're lucky we have a business that can provide for us to do that financially... but at the same time, we've made a few changes in choices recently.

For example - DS1 starts high school next year & we have had him enrolled for a private school - the fees are really pricey, but for him and our situation, this school is whats best for him in our opinion.
To be able to afford to send him & for me to stay at home, something has to give, and so we're looking at moving house soon and dropping our weekly rent to free up a little money.

We choose to rent for now, as a mortgage would mean for me to need to work... and whilst the 'Great Australian Dream' of owning your own home is fantastic, for us, we've prioritised and Lukes schooling and me to be a stay at home parent is more important right now.

There are many other things as well... these are examples - but you get the point!

DH & I used to live quite a lavish lifestyle when it was just Luke and before 8yrs of IVF treatment, lol.... and whilst we don't live it up like we did, we still live quite nicely.

I think its important to weigh up what you want as far as a bigger picture, and find the balance... whatever works for you.

DH & I still go away every year for our anniversary, we still have lovely things, the boys don't miss out.... but we do live on the coast, which is not what we both would choose if money wasn't a concern.
We used to live in Neutral Bay in Sydney which is ridiculously expensive & pretentious... but we loved it
The decision to have a big family does not allow for living in Neutral Bay though, I'm afraid
So we moved up here and found the balance... still close enough to the city to be able to visit friends and shop in decent areas - just an hour drive on the freeway rather than sitting in traffic

Its not a secret we both struggle a little with living here, but we have a nice house and a backyard with a pool & a dog, and room for everything... as opposed to being squished & limited in a unit in the city...

Its worth the sacrifice though for whats more important to us

A lot of rambling, but hoping you see my point

[angelaartsstudent]

I agree re it being worth the sacrifice.

DH was earning nearly $90 000 a year and I was earning just over $55 000 at one point so we had a great child free life!

Alas, it is no more. Jobs change, situations change etc.

We now live in a tiny flat/unit with no money and less gadgets/toys/holidays/lavish items/fancy food and booze.....but we're probably happier. We spend more time at home together, going to parks and playgrounds and generally spend more time together than we did when we were well off!

[*Ang*]

Is it selfish to want a big family if you aren't rich?

Ok, deep breath, here goes my answer to the OP's question. I preclude it by saying that my intention is not to offend but this is my personal opinion.

Yes it is selfish to want a big family if you cannot afford them. No it is not necessary to be "rich" but I do believe it is necessary to have some sort of financial stability. If you know that you are unable to afford the basics and will struggle with an additional child I really and truley believe it is selfish to have another one just because "I want a large family" or "it is my right to have children".

I read on here and hear stories of families who cry broke and cannot afford something eg $20 because something has broken, or their child needs new shoes and they cannot afford them. The next thing you know they are pregnant with no xyz. Do people think that their financial situation will get better with each subsequent child?? Are they naive or plain stupid? I have no sympathy at all.

I am sorry if that opinion offends, but I come from a family where the basics were always provided for and some luxuries were, but not many. After seeing my mum and dad sometimes scrimping for some items and seeing the distress that financial hardship placed upon them, I have always vowed not to do the same to my children. Hence the reason why I believe if you cant afford them dont have them (children that is).

And yes money is not the be all and end all of life, and neither are lavish items. But lets all not put heads in the sand, love and affection are certainly the most valued things in our family but having the basics and a bit more certainly make life more comfortable, more easier and there are no arguements re financial problems like my parents had therefore mum and dad are happier and so are kids.