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Hi Frankie,
Just in regards to tearing - just because your mum and he rmum did, doesn't mean you have to. If you want to try and avoid it, there's things you can do - eg. perineal massage. Also, not pushing once the head crowns is meant to allow time for everything to stretch so that the head can fit through without tearing.
I wish I had really prepared DH on this one because when it came to crowning, I just couldn't wait to push her out and end that feeling (for me, it was the worst part). I ended up with a tear and stitches but I think if I'd had someone to coach me and remind me not to push for a couple of contractions, that I could have avoided it.
Good luck with whatever birth options you choose!
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
Another thing to reduce tearing is to avoid directed pushing - you are more likely to tear. Push with your body, when you need to, not when you are told to. I would listen to them if they say to slow down at crowing though to slowly ease bubby into the world. Birth in water is also better for no tears... being upright... not on your back....
Kelly xx
Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
Obviously it depends on the degree of tearing but i was REALLY worried before birth about tearing and i did tear a tiny bit (it was through the skin and just nicked into the muscle, one midwife said she'd stitch it, the other said she wouldn't bother, i opted not to bother, it healed brilliantly) but it is seriously laughable to me now how worried i was about it compared to how "bad" it actually was.
I didn't feel the tear at all when it happened and i didn't feel it afterwards over the general hot swollen feeling down there from birth itself. I only felt the little cut specifically when i was putting my peri-gel (made up for me by my aromatherapist midwife) and it hurt WAY less than i'd expected (and the peri-gel felt SOOOOOOgood).
I think i was really worried about damage to my vagina before birth but after birth i saw my vagina in a new way. It had gone from being a really sensitive and delicate part of me to being an enduring, strong, amazing organ. Somehow the little cut was a manifestation of my triumph during birth, a little war wound from the challenge me and my body and my baby met head on and rose to triumphantly. Like tearing gave me the realisations that vaginas are designed to birth and even if they tear a bit, they are designed to heal too. I guess it's part of my Pollyanna syndrome (hopeless optimism) but i am SO unworried about tearing next time around. Before it felt like a big thing, but the achievment of birth afterwards was so much bigger.
Bx
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Two tiny stitches for me with an 8lb 10oz DD and a forceps delivery. So no dramas.
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Unlike career or wardrobe choices that a woman makes, telling a woman that birth pain relief is 'her choice' in that same vein is just so misplaced. Birth doesn't care about the feminist movement. That little baby couldn't care less about choice or the wonders of medical science. I hear it all the time; "if you need the drugs, take them", as if somehow when it comes to birth, is all about you and only you - what about the kidlet? Many women conveniently (or just so preoccupied with fear) forget to ask about the effect of the drugs on the baby, and if they took the time to look into THAT side of things, they'd probably start working towards a natural birth pronto!
I hate to rain on the 'take what's on offer' parade (actually, no, I don't hate raining on that parade
Anyway, analytical and empirical stuff aside, YES, you can have a wonderful, drug-free birth and come out feeling fantastic. I did, and I resent being told that I fluked it
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Both my labours were drug free - the first time because they would have been useless as he was well on his way out, the second time was because I made a conscious decision I could do it drug-free.
And I did. All 27 minutes of it - lol.
Eh maybe not such a feat
DS 1 was 8 pound 6 and DS2 was 9 pound 10 and not a stitch in sight.
Labour itself isnt too bad, but the crowning burns like nothing I've ever felt before, it's kind of a satisfying feeling though, cause it doesn't last forever
p.s Mayaness - agree totally
Just read Kelly's post, and was reminded of the midwife I had when i was in labour with DS1. She kept saying "push! you need to push!" and I'm panting "No! I don't need to push!"
I think she got a little annoyed, but I got a little annoyed too when she turned to the nurse and said "if this baby's not out in the next 10 minutes, we're going to slice her."
um. b!tch.
Last edited by BamBam; February 21st, 2008 at 09:53 PM.
Lucy in the sky with diamonds.
KK - the term is BIATCH!!
My mum was in labour for 32 and 29 hours. He eldest daughter (me!) had her first in 4 hours and her last in 2.5. Her youngest daugher had hers in 8.
Genetics can't possibly have everything to do with it. Don't think your fate is sealed yet!!!
Educate yourself, and don;t be afraid to ask questions.....ok?
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So if I don't manage a drug free 'natural' birth them I am somehow an incompotent mother? What about women who try as hard as they can but their babies heads are wedged in their pelvis and need emergency cs?
It is fantastic that women on this forum are educated and passionate about empowering women but sometimes it almost comes across sounding just like those pushy ob's that insist on subsequent cs or induction.
Just some food for thought.
That's the problem with extremes Teachmum. The response to one extreme is always the other extreme.
Of COURSE some women and babies will benefit from judicious use of drugs - it's just that a awful lot of women end up only needing drugs because of intervention.
The "cascade of intervention" is not a myth, it happens to SO many women. In an ideal women would not fear birth, and would not seek to avoid a pain they knew was a positive thing. If that were the case midwives and obs would be SO used to seeing normal women labouring naturally they wouldn't interpret the normal sounds women make during labour as a desperate need for pain relief (that is a tough call, for almost all medical practitioners the easing of pain is a really important part of the job, it's hard to "switch it off" when the climate is not that labour pain is normal and healthy and ok but that it's agony and should be medicated asap), women wouldn't be offered drugs, wouldn't take drugs, wouldn't need drugs and complications like women who can't push effectively (epidural compication), baby's head getting stuck (deep transverse arrest, epidural complication), failure to progress (common after morphine administration), distressed baby (more likely during artificial augmentation of labour, often given to speed things up after morphine has slowed it down), "flat" (non-breathing) newborn (much more common after morphine/pethidine administration/epidural and c-section) would happen much less often. I know about 3 people (and i know ALOT of people) who had complications which were not caused or worsened by external interferance. Even fear, normal fear in normal women, can cause MASSIVE problems for labouring women, and yet how many women even on here have been told "If your baby isn't out in an hour/20 minutes i'm going to cut/use forceps/section you"? That is a PHYSICAL THREAT! And these threats are made routinely, and women tolerate it!
Women should be able to rely on their careproviders to support them, to tell them that labour pain is not injurious and that they can absolutely cope with it, but in the current medicalised birthing climate, sadly we cannot.
No-one is judging anyone by saying that drugs are dangerous, we are telling the truth. And if WOMEN will not tell women that birth is ok and for the vast majority of people (80-90%) can absolutely be done drug-free, then who will?
Bx
ETA - Mayaness, no-one has thus far been able to produce any detrimental effects on newborns from entonox use during labour. It is cleared from the mothers blood upon the 2nd breath of normal air, and, they theorise, IF it gets across the placenta the first breath clears it from the newborn. They've never been able to detect it in newborns or in cord blood and studies have shown identical outcomes for entonox only and totally drug-free labours. I did not know this until after my labour, when guilt made me look it up (because i had used it). In the USA they do not even OFFER entonox.
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Everyone seems to be fairly on to it, so I wont (try) not to repeat them! lol
Firstly, do what feels right for you and dont let ANYONE no matter their opiion make you feel bad for YOUR choice - it is hard!
I know lots of women who have done it naturally and EVERY SINGLE ONE all say that the high afterwards is like nothing on earth! the pain is gone instantly anyway. (even from an ex heroin addict, she says that it was ewasy staying of the drugs after J was born because no drug could ever live up to the high of giving birth)
Secondly, expect - and PLAN - for the unexpected. I wanted a natural birth, refused to have forceps used even, and threatened to go to another hospital (and hour away) when i was actually in labour because i refused to see the doctor that was on call at the hospital (long story) because I knew he would use tham anyway and had disregarded my wishes ot go natural. As it turned out, they found me a new doctor, and just as well, because Charlotte was in distress and when they broke my waters, it was a Level 2 (bad) so i had to have an emergency C/S anyway! All my and DF's planing and hypno techniques were useless cause after 36 hours of labour at home i came to the hospital t be told she wasnt coming naturally anyway!! lol
So ranting aside, just be aware that youre plan may need to be flexible anyway you go, and know that you WILL be all right, even it seems everything is going all wrong!!
Good luck with whatever you decide!
Last edited by LimeSlice; February 22nd, 2008 at 02:04 AM. : After they gave me that epidural though! OOOHWEEE! I wasnt on this planet anymore - i was chatting to the doctor throughout!
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As Limeslice has said, read up and come up with something that suits you.
An approach that suits one person may not suit another. For instance, towards the end of my pregnancy I started becoming quite stressed about the fact that I wanted a natural birth but what if I couldn't do it without drugs. Now some people would say, "oh, just keep telling yourself that you can do it, believe in yourself, believe in your body." That's exactly what some people need to hear, just a little bit of extra encouragement but I can literally make myself sick with worry (have lost 20 kgs and most of my sanity in the past doing this) so I was putting WAY too much pressure on myself. So I decided instead to go with a "I'm going to do my best and use all my pain management techniques but the drugs are there as back-up."
What I'm trying to say is that there's a fine line between motivating yourself for a natural birth and putting too much pressure on yourself. Only you know where that line is.
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Erm I don't think anyone is saying that anyone is incompetent I think thats a bit harsh.
During my second birth whilst I was in the bath contractions were getting quite intense, I went into damage control and demanded drugs, I even tried to manipulate my doula by sending her to get new ice cold flannels every 2 seconds so that I could work on Marc to get him to get me pethadine. I turned into a 2 yr old
With regards to tearing, Seth was 9lb 12oz and I didn't tear due to good coaching during the birthing process. I also had a friend recently who tore with her first but due to good coaching the second she didn't tear or even graze.
This thread isn't about drug free birthing women being better than those that have taken drugs, its about what can be done to help increase the chances of a drug free birth, that is all. Please don't make this a debate about who is better than who, because that is silly plain and simple.
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Totally agree Cailin! I don't feel like I was less of a mother for having pain-relief during my first two births. The circumstances were such that I felt I needed it. But when I learned more, and pursued different options that were available to me, and had consistant support throughout my labour (hurray for my midwives and DH!) I was able to achieve what I wanted, and what I knew was better for me and my baby.
So I guess what we're all trying to say here is EDUCATE YOURSELF AND GET SUPPORT!
And yes, as others have said, there will always be times when things go wrong. Some epidurals, drugs, and caesarians are warranted. Those mothers should never feel like they "failed". They gave it all they could, and it didn't work out. Sometimes that happens. But those measures, meant for extraordinary circumstances, have become commonplace, and mothers and babies are paying the price for that.
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not at allSo if I don't manage a drug free 'natural' birth them I am somehow an incompotent mother? What about women who try as hard as they can but their babies heads are wedged in their pelvis and need emergency cs?
It is fantastic that women on this forum are educated and passionate about empowering women but sometimes it almost comes across sounding just like those pushy ob's that insist on subsequent cs or induction.
I do understand how a strong point of view can come across as pushy
but...the medicalised world of childbirth dominates by intimidation and fear tactics, and I have found the way to be heard and respected is to speak loud and clear, and always professionally
birth is a very passionate subject...and I assure you the discussion on BB is very measured and polite
it does not matter how a woman births her baby, as long as her choices are informed and educated and she is happy with her birthing and her baby
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