Men who just can't (or won't) accept it

[Melby]

Oh, the joys of being newly separated.

I just got off the phone to XH. He rang to discuss tomorrow. Monday is normally "his" night with the girls, but he had a couple of extra nights with them over Christmas, so I asked if they could stay with me tomorrow night since their new bunk beds will be arriving and they are very excited about getting them (and so am I!). Up until 5 minutes ago, that was not going to be a problem.

We agreed that I would get them at 10.30am. We agreed that I would drop them back to his place on Tuesday morning (I have to go to work). Then he asked if I wanted to come over tonight for a movie and a shag. (his words not mine - and he has tried similar lines a number of times!!!) It went from a light-hearted "no thank you" from me, to him starting to ask questions about how we got to this point and why I left etc etc. I refuse to talk about that stuff, because over the last 2 months, any time we have gone down that path, it ends up with us fighting. I left because of emotional abuse, and as soon as we start talking about "what happened" the abuse is denied, and at the same time more abuse takes place! So now I just refuse to talk about it - which then causes a fight, but at least I get out before he starts with the name-calling and derogatory remarks.

So, I refused to talk about it and he lost his temper pretty quickly and told me I can't have the girls tomorrow after all, and hung up on me.

And just now he has called back to say if I won't talk about our relationship, he won't be flexible with the girls.

I am so mad with him right now, how dare he use them to try to FORCE me to talk about things I don't want to talk about.

I hate it that he can still upset me with one phone call. And I hate it that he uses the girls to do it. I hate him.

[widdly]

how awful that he is trying to use your girls against you!

My DH doesn't understand why I need to go either, I dont hink he ever will, as far as he was concerned we were blissfully happy. It is awful that your discussions with DH always end up in emotional abuse. Maybe you could both go to a family relationships centre for a mediation session?? Im thinking that your X probably wouldn't be too keen though, but its worth a shot.

seperation is such an emotional frustrating confusing sad angry happy exciting scary time!!!

[Lulu]

Thats fine hun, tell him you think its a great idea to talk through the problems. At the Family Mediation Centre...when there is someone in the room with you.

[Melby]

Luckily for me there are more ups than downs, but the downs are always about the girls, which makes them very hard to deal with. He is so sure that he is right and that there is no validity to any of the reasons I have given for leaving. Here is an extract from the email he just sent me....

"You have the list of actions you have taken that are disgraceful, I am happy to discuss anything in mediation, your actions speak volumes, any reasonable person will see how frustrating you are to deal with. You don't seem to understand that everyone is seeing you for who you are, all I asked is for you to stop it around me, I don't care how nasty you are around anyone who is unfortunate enough to be involved in your new life except for the girls. You just refuse to see how horrible you have become and how you didn't need to try and tear me down to walk away, I have never asked you to come back, just be accountable for what you did and help me finalise things to move forward.

Everyone that knows us knows your words about me are lies, but they are lies that are designed to get a reaction, justify your actions and to hurt me, so be it...but you need to learn to cope with the results of your mistreatment or stop."

As far as I can tell, his claims of mistreatment are that a) I left and broke up our perfect little family and b) have not apologised for doing so. He is so determined to bring me to my knees and grovel to him for treating him so bad (and in the past, most of our arguments have ended with me apologising everything I have ever said or done). This kind of communication is just how it has always been with us, and the pattern has always been the same - we argue, I apologise (often it was my fault that we argued, but in his eyes it was ALWAYS my fault), he gets sex or sulks until either I give in or it turns into another full-blown argument. Finally I am no longer going to put up with him constantly manipulating situations and making me out to be a terrible person, and so of course it's 10 times as bad dealing with him now!

[Melby]

Hi LuLu, I have tried suggesting that but he won't have a bar of it. He wants answers NOW or else boom, there goes some of my time with the girls.

Now he is saying that we didn't have an agreement about tomorrow - because it was verbal, not in an email, so I can't "prove" it.

[*Efjay*]

You know what, as sucky as it is. Let him have the girls as normal & he can explain why they can't be there when their new beds arrive. BUt make sure you make a big deal about the beds being all ready when they return. Maybe you could even dress the beds up to make it even more fun & exciting when they come home.

[Melby]

FionaJill, I'm glad to hear you say that because generally that has been my reaction to situations like this. They are 3 and 5, and tomorrow night they won't be thinking "gee whiz, I wish I was at Mummy's cos our new beds are there". And they will be excited whenever their first night in them is. Santa brought them some beautiful sheets and doona covers to go on their new beds, so they will look great! On the other hand, if I push the issue with XH then it will only cause tension and arguments, and they WILL notice that. Because of the nature of our relationship, with all the manipulation etc, I sometimes feel like I am letting him win by just giving in like this, but then I remind myself that it is better for the girls, and I guess I just have to stop asking him for favours like this that can leave me open to him making unreasonable demands.

[Visitor8]

hugs hun, I know how you feel.
The best thing to do is act like it doesn't bother you.

[lovin' oven]

Hi I am new to this thread. I'm in a situation I didn't want to happen and need some advice. My husband has some very serious depression and alcohol issues and I am at the end of my rope and just can't tolerate it anymore. My little girl is 5 1/2 months old and I know she is picking up on the tension in the house. There have been a few incidents he's caused over the last year and this has just tipped me over the edge. I have made the decision to leave with her but doing it is the scary part. I have no family here and the only option is a refuge. I work part time 5 days a week and have to put my daughter in daycare 3 of them, while husband looks after her the other 2. So far he has been fine with this and enjoys spending time with her. The issue is the lying about the drinking.

Anyhow, I am waffling, what I want to know is, if I find a place of my own after seperating, will I be entitled to single parent payment, and is it worth giving up my job in order to take care of my daughter full time? I have to weigh up what is more cost effective. It's all very overwhelming at the moment and I don't know the first place to start with arrangements.

Any advice or wisdom is welcomed via forum or PM. Thanks.

[Lulu]

Melby, print off and keep that email. It screams of him trying to make himself look good and taking no responsibility of his own. It may prove useful.
Why don't you keep up the emailing, unless you find it draining. Its just not appropriate to bring up issues in front of the kids, which is what he does because he knows you are the better person and WILL back off because they are there.
You might even be able to sort things, or get somewhere via email because at least you can step back and consider what he says, or go kick a wall when you don't, compose yourself and reply in your own time.
Send him an email saying again, you will only communicate issues with a mediator or via email. Just a suggestion if you think if might work.

Lovin - get on the Centrelink website, its pretty easy to navigate and you can run the payment calculator to see what you may be eligible to receive. Its a good place to start.

[Melby]

Hi Lulu, thanks for your suggestions. Unfortunately email has been a terrible way to sort things out, as invariably he will turn to insults and put-downs. I have had 4 nasty emails from him in the last half an hour. It got to the point where I had to get my IT department to ban his home email addresses from sending anything to anyone in my organisation (a large government department) because he was bombarding me with nasty emails and threatening to send his point of view to everyone I know to "defend" himself. Really, mediation is the only viable option but that won't happen overnight, and in the meantime, he seems to take any opportunity to reneg on an agreement - it used to be about things like money or me getting stuff from the house but he can't do that any more and so now it is just the girls. He is the master manipulator, and it seems everyone he knows just believes what he says. Heck, sometimes reading his emails I almost believe what he says. It's very bad for the self esteem. Really I should probably just stop reading his emails.

[Lulu]

Yep, do that. Forward them on to someone you trust to print them off. Seems like very good evidence of an abusive relationship. If you could bear to do it xoxoxoxoxo

[Melby]

Hey Lovin' Oven, I'm so sorry that you are in this situation. It is very daunting when you first make the decision to leave, there are so many things to consider. Lulu is right, the Centrelink website will get you started. I can't see why you wouldn't be eligible for a single parents payment? Contact them very early on in the piece - some of the payments can be backdated to the date of separation, but the earlier you get the ball rolling, the earlier you will have access to the money. When I first started REALLY thinking of leaving XH (really I had been thinking about it for a long time) I called the Family Relationship Centre and they were a great help with giving support and steering me in the right direction.

Is there any way you could kick HIM out of the house? My XH is such a jerk and a manipulator that leaving was the best option, although I had places to stay. I don't know anything about refuges but you will get help getting into a rental place through centrelink.

My XH also has alcohol issues, and after the way he has been carrying on since we split, I am sure he has mental health issues as well (although if you ask him it's ME that has the issues). Being the supportive wife sounds all rose-gardens-and-picket-fences but it's not just you that you have to think about anymore, it's your daughter too. It sounds like you already understand that.

So best of luck in actually making this happen. And like I was told in the early days... it DOES get better.

Also - you have posted on the end of my thread, maybe you will get some more responses if you post as a new thread?

Melby

[lovin' oven]

Thx Melby. My first priority is my darling girl. She shouldn't be punished for being here and I don't intend letting her grow up in this uncertain, tense, cold environment. My husband has mental health issues too and it just magnifies the importance of my decision. I know he loves her but sometimes it just isn't enough to keep a family together.

Will post another thread.

[barbie-up]

Hi - from my experience, I don't ask for changes in the arrangement I have with my EX.

A new bed might sound exciting to you all at the moment, but if it's going to cause crap, then it's not worth it. It won't be the first or last time you won't be able to share something special with them straight away on your terms.

Don't make too big a deal about them not being there, as much as you want to, they pick up things so quickly. They might feel bad that they were not with you and the beds because they were with their dad and that has nothing to do with them. It's hard sometimes, but someone has to be the adult.

[Melby]

I should have guessed that this would happen before I let him p&#s me off so much!

XH called a couple of times last night which ended with one of us hanging up each time. Once I made it clear that I was not bothered by whether or not the girls came over today (even though I was bothered by it!) he started saying they CAN come over! When we first agreed on a time for tomorrow he had mentioned a specialist appointment at 11 so I agreed to take them at 10.30, and then once he said I couldn't have them, I did wonder whether he would change his mind given he still had to go to his appointment. Anyway, once he had told me I couldn't have them, then started saying I could, I told him it was too late as I had made other plans for the day (which of course I hadn't).

So this morning, he emails me saying he will drop them off at 10.30.

He's gone down this path before. He uses the girls to try to bait me into talking about our relationship and me leaving (aka an opportunity for him to tell me off) and then when I refuse to be drawn in, he threatens something with the girls (such as "you can't see them now") then when he sees I am STILL not biting, he backs down. Or even if he doesn't, and he manages to stuff up my plans, I still win because I haven't been drawn in and I'll still get the girls on my planned days.

Anyway, all's well that ends well. (But it IS still 2 hours before they are actually here with me!!)

[~Aveta~]

Thats fine hun, tell him you think its a great idea to talk through the problems. At the Family Mediation Centre...when there is someone in the room with you.

what Lulu said!!!