WDYT of this invitation??

[sushee]

Coming into this late but wanted to say I absolutely agree with you Lulu. I haven't made a secret of the fact that my DD has had her demons with drugs, and from all we're been through, I know alcohol was very much the gateway addiction for her.

I had parents who not only allowed us to drink underaged, but used to always say they'd rather we drank at home where they could keep an eye on us than outside where they wouldn't know what we were doing. Our home eventually became the place where all our teen friends came to get drunk. Since then, all my siblings have had our demons wih alcohol, as it was very much a part of our lives for so long and therefore 'normalised'.

I do not allow my kids to drink at home, but my older kids regularly went to friends' homes where those parents decided to usurp my parenting role by supplying them with alcohol. I don't think it's up to someone else's parents to set bounderies for my kids. It was also with this group of friends that my DD was introduced to marijuana, portrayed to her as an 'edgier, cooler' way to get high, and pretty soon it was all about looking for that bigger, better high, and down the slippery slope she went. Don't get me wrong, she holds much of the responsibility for her addiction, as do I, but I'm frustrated by the 'normalcy' with which alcohol consumption is viewed by many teens and their parents.

Now I know that not every child gets addicted, not every child will have problems with alcohol in later life, but there is definitely a frustration as a parent when you're undermined by other parents who insist this is 'just something kids do'. Speak to any parent of a drug or alcohol addicted child, and the idea of saying 'it's just what they do' sounds like a poor excuse for allowing something that by law, you're not supposed to allow.

Reality or not, making drinks available to kids, or even saying it's okay for you to drink here, normalises something that should not be normal at that age. If you believe it's the best thing for your family, then go for it, but please don't assume that it's the best thing for my child, and do not circumvent the boundaries I've put in place in the process.

Lulu I had my DD's 16th as a pool party (before the drugs), and 16 people turned up of the 16 I invited. I think any kid who doesn't turn up because you're not condoning alcohol is a kid you don't want around anyway. And as for this invite, if it was me, I'd speak to the parents and if they're allowing alcohol, I'd probably be having a long discussion with DD about why she can't go.

[Jo+3]

Who wrote the invitation? Was it the parent or the 16 year old? If it was the parent Mabe"no sharing" means they will leave the decision of who will be drinking up to the other parents. If it was the 16 year old, I think "no sharing" means I will get my hands on as much alcohol as I can for myself so I'm not sharing as I want to get blind drunk. Why are parents condoning illegal activity anyway? I know that 16 year olds drink, I'm sure I did, but not with the approval of my parents. Whats next, do the kids start pulling out their crack pipes and smoking and Mum and Dad say it's ok because everyone else does it and we like to see what our children are doing. I may be a bit harsh but where are the morals and values here?

[meow]

I think it's a bit full on to be honest- it does ring a little like the implication is binge drinking. I am not against 16 year olds drinking in supervision as it seems sensible to me. But couldn't the parent's make a weak punch or something and everyone gets one or two glasses and that's it... I dunno- they would need all the parents to know about that too of course but at least they wouldn't be encouraging binge drinking.

[Indadhanu]

Hi Lulu,

Hope you don't mind me dropping in and saying my bit.

Ok, so I don't agree with underage drinking AT ALL (in fact, I think the legal age should be 21, once their bodies ... and minds ... have [theoretically] matured).

That said, I was one of those allowed to drink alcohol at a young age (first drink of Southern Comfort at 12). From 16, my parties included alcohol. And on the invite it would say BYO and no sharing... which mum and dad used to make me write so that other parents would feel better about sending their child if they didn't allow him/her to drink. My parents would also monitor who brought alcohol, the alcohol was kept inside in an esky next to where they were, and if you wanted your alcohol you'd have to go in and get it (of course, once the drinnks got outside it was another issue... lots of sharing lol!), but basically my parents decided that was pretty much all they could do...

To be honest though, and even though I don't agree with underage drinking, its unrealistic to think they won't drink at all, ever, and pretty irresponsible to keep them away from alcohol until the day they turn 18 and then let them go out and go wild with it. I've seen a lot of people from high school go that way, and go completely stupid on alcohol as soon as they were able too. But of course what can you do? Damned if you do damned if you don't really..... respect for alcohol and responsibility with drinking alohol needs to be taught more as some kids just don't know what it can do, only that it makes them laugh loads and makes their friends do really funny things (until someone gets hurt...).

Sushee..... I'm really glad you were can share your daughters struggles with us... I also had my own struggles with, among other things, alcohol, which i do take responsibility for as I choose my actions, but it makes you think about how people view alcohol, and my own sister struggles with alcohol as well (she just turned 20 and has liver damage already ) and I have to wonder if its because to us it was seen as normal... as well as always seeing 'drink to get drunk' view of alcohol... that if you weren't drunk then you weren't drinking 'properly'. I think if you don't want your daughter to drink at all (and she probably will have even a little at parties like this) put your foot down, but don't just say no. Say no, because... and give her a little education on why you don't want her to go. Why you don't want her to view alcohol as a past time.
P.S. Jo+3... there not so far off there...

Whats next, do the kids start pulling out their crack pipes and smoking and Mum and Dad say it's ok because everyone else does it and we like to see what our children are doing.

As this is the attitude my parents had (as long as you do it at home and I know what your doing just in case something happens etc etc) and also my parents friends.

But you know I respect you as a mum Lulu and you'll make the best decisions that are right for your daughter. It's not easy, and I'm not really looking forward to parenting teenagers let me tell you!!!!!

[sushee]

My DD's issues surfaced at 17, and before that I knew she would have a drink at parties, and we talked a lot about responsible drinking. I shared with her my issues with it as well as my reasons, ie my own upbringing. She then fell in with a couple of girls who's parents would make their friends up an alcoholic drink the minute they came over, even if there wasn't a party, even if it was only the afternoon. And it snowballed from there. My DS was also involved in that group but it never got out of control for him. So while the opportunity was there, I know it doesn't lead many down the path to addiction, but it's the ones who do end up addicted who have parents wondering why it's so easily accessible, why it's so promoted, why other people who don't have a vested interest in the health and safety of your child would undermine you like that.

My DD and I have spoken about this since, and from what she's saying, it was the 'normalcy' of this that made it acceptable to her - the fact that everyone was doing it, that some parents were saying it was okay, that at that age, you're expected to drink and get drunk. That's a lot of pressure for a child, and for someone like my DD, who has an addictive personality, it sealed her fate. I know I can talk to her, I know I can set boundaries, and I did, but if other parents don't, and furthermore actively encourage their (and my) teen to drink, what chance do I have?

I just remember a time when alcohol was not considered as acceptable as it is now. Kids still drank but it wasn't something you were expected to do like it is now. Add to that parents looking on approvingly, and how do kids NOT think this is what they're supposed to experience in order to grow up?

[Daydream Believer]

Id give the parents a call & find out.

Mind you if the cops found out there was alcohol at an underage party the parents & the host would be fined because they are the organisers of the party.

[*Efjay*]

I agree with nessa on this one. I would be calling and asking for the parents to clarify the invite but then I would also be advising the local cop shop about the party. I don't know if I would be allowing my kids to attend. sounds like trouble just waiting to happen.

My thoughts on the no sharing thing was actually to avoid drinks being spiked.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

For illigalities, it depends on where you are. Some states in Australia have the UK laws, which states it is OK to consume alcohol on private property from age 5 (I know, that is a bit young!) but not buy until 18, others say no drinking until 18. So please don't assume this is an illegal party because there is alcohol there. Unless you're in a state where alcohol consumption under 18 is banned (can't remember where this is: I'm sure you girls will though) this is not illegal.

As for turning 18 and getting hammered... I'd hope that I had taught my children well enough without needing alcohol that you don't do that! Yes, so I don't intend waiting until my children turn 18, but I do intend to teach responsible drinking before my children even think about alcohol - you do this by leading by example. DS does not see me drunk. DS has seen Daddy very poorly with a hangover. DS has seen Mummy laugh at Daddy loudly and call him silly when he has a hangover. DS also knows Mummy disapproves of people who wander around the town drunk by the disparaging comments she makes. All of this is teaching him about how to treat alcohol, and will continue to teach him about that.

[Daydream Believer]

In Vic its illegal

[sushee]

illegal in WA too.

And I believe that at a certain age, the opinions of their friends can come to outweigh the opinions of their parents. My kids know I will have a glass of wine now and again, but not falling down drunk,very rarely more than a few wines and very infrequently (in the last few years, I'm lucky to have a glass of wine more than once every three months) but this good example means nothing in the face of their friends getting blind drunk on a regular basis and their friends' parents making it out to be no big deal. I'm pretty sure many parents of teens would attest to that too.

I'm not trying to be alarmist, but I am concerned by the fact that today's teens (and yes, some parents) do believe that teenaged drinking should be tolerated because 'everyone does it' and therefore it gets more socially accepted with every passing year.

[tan32]

Interesting
they were discussing these issues on the tv not long ago, and the issue was brought up about these parties getting out of hand and that the parents and teenagers should be charged if they allow under age drinking and charged if the party gets out of hand.

I wouldnt like to be the parents if a teenager gets hurt, has alcohol poisoning or worse. It may be different when it is your own children in your own home, but def not other peoples children in my home.

Alcohol has become so common and many people no longer see it as a drug, it does damage to young bodies and brains, at this age teenagers are struggling enough with judgement without adding alcohol to the mix.

I do like to have a drink, but its not often, i did drink when i was younger.

[Lady_Penelope]

Ok, so it seems there are a few people out there that feel it is "ok for a 16 yr old to drink under supervision".

Can any of these people tell me what they consider the appropriate "cut-off" age should be? 16, 15, 14..........or 13???

This is a little aking to putting one's DD on the pill "because most teens will have sex, anyway".

Seems to me that PARENTS are setting the standards bar way too long and inadvertently putting pressure on their own kids!

Tracy

[briggsy's girl]

Lady Penelope - i don't know that there is a certain "age" where it becomes ok - for me, i started having one or two drinks every few months with my parents when i was 13 - but i was, and always have been, very "mature" for my age. i also don't have an addictive personality. My DH, on the other hand, does have something of an addictive personality, so with our children, it will very much come down to the personality of the individual child. i won't say "ok, it's your X birthday, you're allowed to drink now" - i know children need to be treated equally - but that equality has to be about more than a number

i will admit that i'm sitting on the fence a lot with regards to this issue. personally, i've been involved in playing "security" at an underage party for a friends son - and we were extremely strict on who got in - and they only got to drink what they bought. we taxi'd each of them home so that they couldn't leave that party and go and get drunk elsewhere - no one was allowed to drink to excess. but i know not all parties go like this (look at the now infamous Cory!) - so i am well aware of how out of control these can get.

this thread has sparked some obvious debate - and i think debate is healthy - i've spoken to another member at length about this - and though we continue to have differing opinions, i think i've come to a new level of understanding about youngsters and what can happen in those with addictive personalities. i haven't changed my stance - i will be a fence sitter until i have teens myself and have to make that call! but i HAVE looked at it from another POV...

Lulu - you are the only person that can make a call on what YOUR child does - and i respect whatever that decision is - it's not up to anyone else to parent your child - and i guess that's a big part of this issue - where does it come into play that someong else has the right to be in charge of your child - if you DO let your child drink, how will they make the decision that your child has had enough - that's something that you need to decide. good luck in whatever you decide hun

[AngelPunks]

My father is European, I was brought up with alcohol around (when he died, mum continued this - her father was also European), I could have a drink when I wanted to, I learnt about responsible alcohol consumption. My children will have the same upbringing, they will not see people "write themselves off" at a BBQ having a few drinks (ok they will if I go to anything at my BILs place), they will see responsible alcohol consumption, at dinner etc NOT drink to excess as a way to have fun or relax etc. I can count on one hand how many times I've had a few too many in the last 5 years.

At 16/17 when all my school friends were going out into town underage drinking, I couldn't see the point, when I could go to the cupboard at home and mix myself a drink, without running the risk of being busted. Growing up, Friday night was hang out night at Mum's place (this continued until I went overseas at 22), we could drink on the back verandah, in a safe environment & either she'd drive my friends home or they'd walk (all my close friends lived within a 2-3 block radius).

I was reading an etiquette book the other night and it suggests for teens parties that you get the full name and parental contact detail of EVERY person at the party (home phone/mobile), so as the responsible adult there, if something goes wrong, or little jonny gets blotto, you can ring the parent and ask them what they want you to do or if they'll come and pick up little jonny, this puts the onus back on the parent of little jonny to deal with their own child's behaviour.

[sushee]

I personally don't think all teens at 17 have the capacity of decide on a life-long career (and the majority might think they are but more often then not end up training for one thing and doing something completely different) Legally they may have the right, but mentally many are still too young at that age.

Like I've said, I don't have a problem with you raising your child the way you see fit, but I have a problem with you allowing someone else's child to drink under your roof - that's not your call to make. My family's home was also where all my friends came to drink - I thought I was wonderful that my parents were so open minded, and even while we all had issues with alcohol, because they provided us with a 'controlled' environment, they still believed they were being responsible parents. I respect their right to their opinion.

But I am not of the same opinion now, and that is my right as a parent to my kids. Teaching responsible alcohol intake ideally would be the domain of parents, but yes realistically that doesn't happen because the environment these days is such that teens' alcohol intake seems to governed by the opinions of their friends and their friends' more permissive parents. If every parent respected the boundaries set by other parents, being able to find someone's house to get trashed at would be less likely. Many of you said that in your own homes, you weren't allowed to get trashed, but give one parent the right to decide for someone else's child, and you're giving all parents the right to decide for someone else's child, and not all parents would be able to enforce such a limit.

I actually used to be a parent who believed that it didn't matter if my kids had one or two drinks at parties, but from the feedback from my kids in recent months, they never had one or two drinks, they got smashed. Everyone did. And some of the activities that go on in these parties (yes while the parents of the party-holder are in the house, watching TV in their room) would make your stomache turn. So as 'controlled' as you think you're going to be able to be, once your kids are out of your house, you have no more control. I am now a mother of an formerly addicted DD, and I post in here because while 9 out of 10 kids may not end up like her, I pray you're not the mother whose child is that 1 out of ten. Because it's not about how good a parent you are, it's about how easily the temptation is available for them.

The one thing I regret most is how complacent I was that everything was 'normal' and 'under control'. Yes kids will still drink, yes kids will still have sex, but I am not talking about complete abstinence, I'm talking about parents supporting other parents with regards to teaching responsible drinking. That, to me, is not age specific either.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Drinking at 15 isn't illegal (where I am) but sex at 15 is... as I don't condone sex outside of marriage there's no way my children will be exposed to the "it's OK to have sex whenever" attitude in the household where I grew up. Please don't compare the two, it is VERY insulting.

What age to drink... I figure if DS asks for a taste of wine then why not give him a sip? Obviously I'm not going to do that to a toddler, but a junior school child certainly. Alcohol doesn't cause any health problems UNLESS taken to excess (just like paracetamol - no one would say never to give a child a paracetamol, which is another drug that isn't vital to life) and has the odd benefit if taken in moderation (just like paracetamol!). That doesn't mean I'm going to encourage DS to have alcohol, that just means that if he's around 10-11 and wants a taste I don't have a problem with that.

Also, just because a taste of alcohol is allowed doesn't mean I expect DS drinking with every meal or every weekend. There's nothing wrong with saying no - another thing we will be teaching him. That's not "setting a bar" too low or too high, that's just teaching what is and is not acceptable. Legal behaviour that is not out of control is acceptable. I fail to see how that is bad parenting.

[Lulu]

One thing I want to make clear is that you may have opinions one way or the other but until the day you have to implement your beliefs, the day your child gets their first party invite, the day your child tell you her peers at school get drunk every weekend and have random sex at the age of 13, the day you actually have to FACE it in reality - well ONLY then you can really understand how this feels.

I am far from a teeltotaller (as those in live chat will know!), my family have run pubs for years, I have worked in the industry for years - I am not totally uncool. My daughter has purple hair, has had the odd taste of alcohol and happily fetches a beer for her granddad.

DD had a ****tail when she saw Priscilla with my parents. I didn't mind so much as mum made a big deal about her being grown up etc etc. We discussed it later, and she said she couldn't taste anything. I made a point of how you cannot taste vodka in most drinks and when she is old enough she must take care with who buys her a drink. Why? Working in a small bar one night 2 guys ordered 2 double vodka and oranges and 2 beers. The girls ID were ok, they were both just 18. So I (probably VERY illegally) only poured half shots of vodka (and charged for doubles), and watched whilst the guys got ridiculously drunk and foiled their dastardly plans.......
DD thinks this is cool and has learnt something too.

SO my entire point is I'm not just making one decision - NO DRINKING till 18.It's more than that. I'm not so desperate that I need my childs approval, or coolness rating. I am teaching her as I go, but I'm still saying no!
I'm also totally against this rite of passage (or lack of it) and the alcohol "be all and end all" of any teen gathering.
I will teach DD to properly drink alcohol. There will be no way any of those horrible alco-pops will cross my threshold. No cheap and nasty spirits. She will learn to mix drinks properly. If she can afford to drink when she is 18, she will do it with a bit more respect.
I am far more inclined to let DD have a drink (if and when b4 18), dependent on the circumstances. ie - Letting her have half or a full glass of champers (maybe after she is 16) whilst at the theatre is WAY different than buying her a few cheap vodkas and dropping her off at a party when the focus is falling over and keeping your hair free of spew.

I am going to seek clarification on the law here in Vic. I was under the impression that it is not in fact illegal to supply alcohol to any teen if they are under your roof. This is what upsets me greatly.

Sush - if I found out some kids parents were encouraging my daughter to drink I would be livid and I would take it very, very far. It would be a sad day for anyone that undermines my parenting- let alone to that extent. It must have been horrific for you and the family, I hope she stays on a better path and leaves those people behind. The f#@kers.

I was a horrible teen, but I knew a 'cool' mum. She had 5 kids, her house was full of teens and she loved it. She was beautiful and fun, had a HOT toy boy and drove us to the local underage discos.
She was also very strict. She had a beer or three after work, but no way did we until we were 18. She nudged us to school when we didn't feel like it, and made us call our parents if we were there late. You can be cool and a good role model. I am not going to lie down and say "bugger it they all do it anyway".
I am setting high standards for my daughter and I have high expectations of her, nothing wrong with that.

I haven't called the parents and I'm pretty sure she won't be going. She is not 16 yet and I plan on showing her other ways she can be grown up.

By having a bank account
Having a part timejob
Responsiblity to her family
Knowning how to conduct herself and have a convertation with adults.

Wow, seems pretty simplistic when you look at it but it's amazing how many parents neglect this sort of stuff and waste their time trying to be cool.......

Gawd I've been offline for 2 days and look what happens!!

[Lulu]

I just want to make it clear to everyone that I am not offended in any way by anyones posts. Not at all. I re-read the above post and it's coming off a bit shirty - I don't mean it!

Everyones circs are different, everyones experiences different, and everyone's child and peer groups different in their own way.

Mwah!