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Thread: Satanism question

  1. #37

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    Hi there...
    just thought i'd add a bit here...
    when I was about 16, I went through the whole 'Satanist" thing- more as a way of exploring being a teenager than anything else. It really isnt as bad as what some people think.... and I dont follow that path of thinking anymore- But I think it was a stage for me.
    That said- I do have a copy of 'The Satanic Bible' by Anton la Vey- which is what true satanists believe. Makes for interesting reading- for about 5 minutes!

    Not much different from declaring one's religion as 'Jedi' really...


  2. #38

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    this might help lulu... well, maybe not, nut its kinda relevant!!


    Rules Kids Won't Learn in School


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Rule #1. Life is not fair. Get used to it. The average teenager uses the phrase "it's not fair" 8.6 times a day. You got it from your parents, who said it so often you decided they must be the most idealistic generation ever. When they started hearing it from their own kids, they realized Rule #1.

    Rule #2. The real world won't care as much about your self-esteem as your school does. It'll expect you to accomplish something before you feel good about yourself. This may come as a shock. Usually, when inflated self-esteem meets reality, kids complain that it's not fair. (See Rule No. 1)

    Rule #3. Sorry, you won't make $50,000 a year right out of high school. And you won't be a vice president or have a car phone either. You may even have to wear a uniform that doesn't have a Gap label.

    Rule #4. If you think your teacher is tough, wait 'til you get a boss. He doesn't have tenure, so he tends to be a bit edgier. When you screw up, he is not going ask you how feel about it.

    Rule #5. Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your grandparents had a different word for burger flipping. They called it opportunity. They weren't embarrassed making minimum wage either. They would have been embarrassed to sit around talking about Kurt Cobain all weekend.

    Rule #6. It's not your parents' fault. If you screw up, you are responsible. This is the flip side of "It's my life," and "You're not the boss of me," and other eloquent proclamations of your generation. When you turn 18, it's on your dime. Don't whine about it or you'll sound like a baby boomer.

    Rule #7. Before you were born your parents weren't as boring as they are now. They got that way paying your bills, cleaning up your room and listening to you tell them how idealistic you are. And by the way, before you save the rain forest from the blood-sucking parasites of your parents' generation try delousing the closet in your bedroom.

    Rule #8. Life is not divided into semesters, and you don't get summers off. Nor even Easter break. They expect you to show up every day. For eight hours. And you don't get a new life every 10 weeks. It just goes on and on.

    Rule #9. Television is not real life. Your life is not a sitcom. Your problems will not all be solved in 30 minutes, minus time for commercials. In real life, people actually have to leave the coffee shop to go to jobs. Your friends will not be perky or as polite as Jennifer Aniston.

    Rule #10. Be nice to nerds. You may end up working for them. We all could.

    Rule #11. Enjoy this while you can. Sure, parents are a pain, school's a bother, and life is depressing. But someday you'll realize how wonderful it was to be kid. Maybe you should start now.

  3. #39

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    Great post Catrionalee! How true. Especially the one about how us parents got boring paying the way for the kids!

    Relating back to the Satanism worship. The more I think about it (I don't mean to offend Satanists, these are JUST my thoughts, not a fact) Satanism relies pretty heavily of Christianity. If it is an offspring of Dualism (a belief that the universe is ruled by two opposing forces: good and Evil). If Satanism is the opposite of Christianity then it should function independently of it. Dualism says that the two forces are totally independant, that one did not create the other. Us humans have to simply decide what "side' we are on. We label what side is "good/right". Which is pretty weird really because even the Dark side is labelled "good/right" by it's followers... so then what IS "goodness"? How can "good" be defined the same ie "right" by two opposing belief structures? Impossible.

    It kinda proves that there must be a third "law". Both can't be right.... one side has to be wrong don't you think.? If dualism is true then one side has to like "badness" just because it is bad. People who are on the "bad side" then have to do things just for the sake of being bad. But strangely, often in the act of being bad you exhibit "good" traits. A person who wants to rob a bank must be brave. Most people allocate "braveness" as a 'good' attribute so what the hell is it on the 'dark' side. Another example: a paedophile may molest for pleasure... but pleasure is a good thing is it not? Con-men have to very patient and careful... are not patience and care good attributes?

    You can be good for the sake of being good, but you can't be bad for the sake of being bad because most forms of badness involve a "good" attribute. Goodness is 'itself'.... badness is only spoiled 'goodness'. So I think duality has a flaw. The two sides are not equal but opposite. One depends on the other to survive. Evil is a parasite it seems. Put simply, to be 'bad' a person must exist and have intelligence and will. All those are "good" attributes... therefore they are from the Good Power. To be bad he must steal good attributes from the opponent. The story of Lucifer, the Fallen Angel, is recognition that evil is a parasite not an original thing.


    I just think it's interesting the Satanists often invert (turn upside down) the cross and hold Black Mass which seems to be an inversion of Christian Mass. Why do they bother acknowledging Christianity so much? why can't Satanists just think up something orignial instead of relying on Christianity for it's inspiration? I just don't get it.

    Sorry for the ramble. i really really don't wish to offend anyone. Like i said, these are just my thoughts. I'm just questioning, not condemning. Sorry if it seems that way. C.S Lewis has written al ot on the subject of Dualism and the Dark Side and it's faults... I have been heavily influenced by him as well.
    Last edited by Bathsheba; January 18th, 2008 at 07:17 PM.

  4. #40

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    actually Bath - true satanism is a pre-xtian religion and the xtian god isn't the opposite

  5. #41

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    I wonder how the true Satanists feel about the "untrue" Satanists then? It seems like the ones caught up with inverting Christianity have hijacked the faith. Popular perception of Satanism seems to be the anti-christ one. Either way evil still relies very heavily on 'good'. Goodness can simply exist. Evil needs 'goodness' to spoil to prove itself.

    ETA:

    Satanism
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    For other uses of the word, see Satanism (disambiguation).
    Satanism can refer to a number of belief systems depending on the user and contexts. Common misuse of the word generally refers to "the worship of Satan or the practice of ritual magic."[1] However, by the actual adherents, the suffix -ism is often used suggesting the definition as an act or practice (e.g. the word heroism), as opposed to the oft-assumed definition as the doctrine or philosophy behind an act or practice. [2]

    Generally, the word "Satanism" is used to describe several distinct spiritual practices and beliefs: the two most significant seem to be LaVeyan Satanism, and Theistic Satanism. Ideas about Satanism range from essentially these two sources. [3]

    LaVeyan Satanism is a form wherein the Satanist plays the role of the adversary to spiritual creeds, espousing vehement social Darwinism, hedonism, objectivism, and atheism. The term LaVeyan Satanist, is used by adherents to clarify that they support the ideologies in the writings of Church of Satan founder Anton Szandor LaVey.[4] Careful use of the word, according to one website, refers to a "small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies."[5]

    Theistic Satanism contains a very broad scope of religious groups from Pagans celebrating Pan to Yezidis worshipping Melek Taus, Shaytan.[6] Even Thelema can be considered Theistic Satanism for Aleister Crowley’s Liber SAMEKH contains this phrase “Thou Satan-Sun Hadith that goest without will“ Hadith being one of the three Egyptian Gods in his “Book of the Law“.[7] There are many modern groups of Theistic Satanists but most consider themselves to be Satanists and see no need for the use of the word Theistic. One more group that falls under the definition of Theistic Satanism would be, "Reverse Christians", being that they practice what Christians claim Satanists do and worship what they consider to be the enemy of Christ and God.
    Last edited by Bathsheba; January 18th, 2008 at 07:44 PM.

  6. #42

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    wiki isn't a website I look at for factual information - what is on there depends on the last person to edit the page.

    Modern Satanists do not worship the devil; they do not even believe in this Christian-created being. Their belief is about themselves as living deity. However, some Satanist?s do. Theistic Satanists do believe in an entity known, as Satan and Devil Worshippers also believe in Satan as a deity. Theistic Satanists see Satan as an actual dark pagan god.
    I use an inverted pentagram when I'm working with the base "earth bound" elements, with air, fire, water and earth. The 5th point of a pentagram is akasha (or spirit).

    In a majority of pagan paths (from my knowledge of those of my friends who are a variety of paths, including witch, setian, satanist, golden dawn, OTO, wiccan etc) there is LHP (left hand path) and RHP (right hand path). I currently work more down the LHP than the RHP, as I've spent many years in the realm of RHP, now is my time to become more "earthy" and in touch with the more primeval.

    The Left Hand Path is an approach to knowledge that is dark, hidden, and receptive. It is the path of silence and inner revealing through meditation. The passive, feminine, Yin influence is felt here. Its symbol is the pentagram with the point going down, representing the vulva, and the two points up, symbolizing yielding breasts. The head of the goat invokes the earth element and the Hebrew letters for Leviathan signify the waters of the abyss. Often referred to as the Baphomet, from the Greek ?Baphe and Metis? meaning wisdom measurement, the sigil pays homage to the Goddess Sophia. BEING is the primary focus of the Left Hand Path.
    The Right Hand Path is an approach to knowledge that is illuminated, evident, and active. It is the path of interaction and participation. The active, masculine, Yang influence is experienced here. Its symbol is the pentacle with the point going up, representing an erect phallus, and the points drooping on both sides, the testes. Several artists have depicted a man superimposed on the star or pentacle. Recent attempts to corrupt the pentacle will fail - superimposing the face of the Goddess upon it won?t change its true nature. BECOMING (Xeper) is the primary focus of the Right Hand Path.
    The Right and Left Hand Path are not opposed to one another and have nothing to do with Western Philosophy or Christianity. To create anything, form and force (Yin and Yang) must work together! A passive idea is worthless unless it is followed by an active deed. Conversely, the doing of deeds helps one acquire new ideas. This is the way life works and the way magic works.
    I'd like to thank a good friend who is a Satanist for this information

  7. #43
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    What is the relevance of "Satan" to "Lucifer" (the fallen angel christianity takes to be the "devil")? There are equated in popular/general knowledge but why? Are they the same? Or did christianity make satan, the old deity into a devil when they were trying to replace the pre-existing secular religions? Anyone out there got a theology degree? LOL

    Bx

  8. #44

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    Good question Bec! I've been wondering the same thing.

    I agree Shaz that Wiki is not the best source of info but it seemed to provide the best over-all summary. I was getting conflicting and confusing messages when visiting other sites on Satanism and Wiki helped me to understand what was going on.

    I'll be upfront and honest that I personally feel uncomfortable about some of the more common themes in Satanist teachings. It's just my opinion and I say it respectfully in the way I would feel uncomfortable in a Fundamentalist Christian church.

    There does seem to be one common theme in all the Satanist sites and that it teaches that the individual is the most important and to attack your enemies. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to get a basic understanding of it before i judge Satanism unfairly. So... getting back to being encouraged to attack your enemies: this seems to be the biggest difference between Christianity and Satanism. Christianity teaches to turn the other cheek. Satanism offers ways to defend. I guess this can appealing to teenagers. Kids that feel disempowered by their parents/teachers etc. But i think I would be concerned if my DD decided on this path at that age. Do they really have the level of understanding to judge if someone is truly their enemy at that age? Are they going to use Satanist defence systems to thwart the enemy parent because the parent is just trying to parent them? Does anyone really have the wisdom to know whether our enemies are actually doing something "good" for us.... but in a way that we are unable to see? As a child I was hurt by a stepfather... in many ways... and it has only been through "letting go" and seeing that somehow his actions have made me into the person i am today... perhaps a more sympathetic person for what I have been through Anyhow, that's how I see it. Turning the other cheek takes more strength, i think, than fighting back sometimes. If you are wrongly done by, then I really don't see the value (to yourself or anyone) in perpetuating the evil done against you? Isn't it better to stop the domino effect of evil done to person to person and make it end with you?

    Sorry i have rambled on again. I was just trying to walk a mile in Lulu's shoes and imagine how I would feel if my DD sought the teachings of Satanism in her early teens... these are just my thoughts... once again i don't wish to offend anyone.
    Last edited by Bathsheba; January 19th, 2008 at 07:52 AM.

  9. #45
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    Turning the other cheek takes more strength, i think, than fighting back sometimes.
    It's certainly the hardest thing i've ever done!

    If you are wrongly done by, then I really don't see the value (to yourself or anyone) in perpetuating the evil done against you? Isn't it better to stop the domino effect of evil done to person to person and make it end with you?
    Absolutely!

    I think it is very likely that people who call themselves Satanists are not all doing anything LIKE the same things or reading from the same hymn (sutra/mantra/chant/recitation) sheet. I knew some people who thought they were Satanists and it seemed to involve doing rituals with blood (their own, small volumes or pigs, from the butcher's bigger volumes) and behaving however the heck they wanted - i'm pretty sure that's not part of any organised religious system!

    Bx

  10. #46

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    I've put some info on the ethics & rules of satanism in another thread, as well as some other information people may find interesting.

    From my perspective and my personal knowledge and what I've seen, satanism is taking responsibility for your own actions, you do something wrong you sufferer the consequences not expect forgiveness from a "higher power".

  11. #47
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    Schaz can that translate into if you are wronged you should take revenge - so the wrong-doer gets consequences, or does some sort of fate or natural order thing take care of it. And can you link the other thread sweetie? i can't see it in the directory...

    Bx

  12. #48

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    Which thread Shaz?

    I think many faiths teach responsibility for actions, including Christianity. Christians acknowledge a higher power but are discouraged from making excuses for bad behaviour. You are encouraged to at least contemplate your actions and think about how your behaviour has hurt others because Christians are taught to love each other as themselves.... not just look after number one!

    I would say both faiths are accountable to a higher power. If a Satanist goes against the teachings of Satan then what happens? Something "bad" will happen? Same with my God... not too different really

    ETA: snap Bec!

    Hey Shaz, not having a go at your faith I'm just trying to understand (with 2 noisey children behind me!)
    Last edited by Bathsheba; January 19th, 2008 at 09:17 AM.

  13. #49
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    From what Schaz' other post (technodunce, but found it eventually!) says going against the rules and doing whatever you want is the rule. So you can't "break" the rules of Satanism except by going against what you want to do for reasons of obedience to some other authority/deity, is that right Schaz?

    Bx

  14. #50

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    Thanks for posting those rules Shaz.

    I wonder if the world would be a better place if we all were Satanists? I guess there have been no wars fought over it. I personally feel better that there is actually a higher authority than myself. It helps when raising teens too to say to them; "darling, I am not the boss of you, God is, take it up with him!" LOL
    Last edited by Bathsheba; January 19th, 2008 at 09:32 AM.

  15. #51

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    lol Bath, I am the Law in my house!

    Just thought I'd update you on this - Belle actually found it a little hard to get through and I have a feeling that it isn't cool now mum is open to that too.
    Which I wasn't really, its more more the bf thing going on.
    She is reading lots of books and totally ignoring me atm...

  16. #52
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    Leave The Golden Notebook lying around for her to find Lulu, feminism is an incredibly worthwhile thing to be "about" as a teenage girl

    Bx

  17. #53

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    Lulu - there are some wonderful books on the "dianic" tradition in paganism, I found it empowering when I was wondering about my own path to follow.

  18. #54

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    She didn't take much notice of the few things I had here, I'm pretty sure it was all a stupid bf thing. I'm a bit dissapointed actually, I would have liked her to find something....

    Anyway she is being a total selfish turkey right now. Might bring it up again later.

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