Do you believe in evolution or what your holy book says?

[Turkish Delight]

I am a scientist. i believe in evolution. The Koran states Adam and Eve and so forth. I would like to think yes, this is right, but my brain says nope, look at all the evidence.

I teach my son about science, all the different types of science - chem, biol, physics, environment, astronomy etc..

One day i was talking to him about humans and evolution. My parents got all angry at me for brainwashing my kid into believing such nonsense. I've argued with them on numerous ocassions about the facts and evidence, but they tend to not hear it or argue back to me as to why apes weren't "turning" themselves into humans anymore.

Which do you believe? Science or the holy book?

[Nelle]

I believe that God made the world in seven days, like the bible tells me. Some people believe that God engineered evolution, so that God fits with scientific theory, and that the seven days described by the bible aren't literal, but I personally believe otherwise.

Let us know if you want this moved to Spirituality.

ETA: By the way, I don't see a big gap between Science and God - my thinking is, God made it, science explains it. I just don't think that Evolution is the scientific explanation of how God made the world, it's a scientific theory.

[Phteven]

I don't see any conflict. There are a number of passages in the Quran that talk about the planets coming together from dust and life coming from mud and so on which are pretty similar to our current understanding of planetary co-elscance and the origins of life. There is another passage that talks about a day to God being as a millenium to us.
My understanding is that Allah created the evolutionary process just as he created everything else. I'm often amazed at the way that things that would have seemed like gibberish at the time of revelation make prefect sense now.

[Heaven]

I'm with Nelle. I believe exactly what the Bible tells me is true.

Creationism and evolution... how can both work together?

[butterfly_warrior]

I am a scientist. I am a Christian. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I do not believe evolution to be fact. For that matter, science doesn't either - it is only a theory after all.

I do believe that God created the world and everything in it. God also created time, so doing it in seven days is not beyond His capabilities.

Personally, I think it's very presumptuous of us to limit God's abilities and say it's not possible for Him to have created the world in such a short time...

I don't know whether this has fully answered your question or whether my perspective is too Christian to be of much use to you.

BW

[lady lala]

Whilst I lean towards evolutionary theory I'm not really deeply attached to the idea.
I often wonder how those who passionately believe either one or the other POV would feel if the POV they supported was conclusively disproved.
Would the non-religious get faith?
Would the religious feel their faith was a lie?

[Turkish Delight]

I don't know whether this has fully answered your question or whether my perspective is too Christian to be of much use to you.

I'm not concerned if your viewpoint is Christian, Muslim, Jew etc... I was just curious to know which side of "creation" people believed in.

The theory of evolution sounds more logical than being created from mud as per the Koran. I most certainly believe in the power of God/Allah (however you want to read it).

You are such a knowledgable woman Bron. I admire you. Now, i guess can incorporate Allah's word into my evolution theory...

My understanding is that Allah created the evolutionary process just as he created everything else. -Brontide

Thanks

[Floweryfields]

I'm with Nelle. I believe exactly what the Bible tells me is true.

Creationism and evolution... how can both work together?

Yep me too.

[HotI]

My understanding is that Allah created the evolutionary process just as he created everything else. I'm often amazed at the way that things that would have seemed like gibberish at the time of revelation make prefect sense now.

This is where my thoughts lead me too.

[luna moth]

+1 to brontide's post - it is so easy for the two theories to co-exist.

The original Hebrew word for "day" can translate to mean "period of time" which doesn't necessarily mean 24 hours, but can mean a million years. So they fit together pretty nicely

Another idea - Higgs' particles, the ones that they're trying to isolate with the LHC - currently an unexplained force. I like to simplify that and sort of think of that as a "god force"

[Phteven]

TD have you read Shaikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller's writing about evolution? He's a scholar of Islam and follows pretty traditional methods and his reading of scientific texts and the Arabic of the Quran is that evolution occured in all things except for humans which are a special and were placed on the Earth without any prior evolution.

[willow5]

One day i was talking to him about humans and evolution. My parents got all angry at me for brainwashing my kid into believing such nonsense. I've argued with them on numerous ocassions about the facts and evidence, but they tend to not hear it or argue back to me as to why apes weren't "turning" themselves into humans anymore.

It's this type of closed mindedness and ignorance that turns me away from most religons. IMO they are the ones brainwashing and leaving no room to question, change or re evaluate a belief due to new knowledge.
The bible was written a long time ago and from second hand story telling, how accuarte could it be, especially after translations.
The world has come a long way since then, for better and worse probably. But scientifically we know alot more and can explain alot more than could be explained back then.

I should stop I could go on and on

I think you're doing the right thing keep teaching your son about science and teach him about religions and peoples belief systems and when he's older he'll be educated enough to make his own decision without being blindly told there is this and nothing else.

You can be a great, kind loving person believing in yourself!!!

[Turkish Delight]

Honestly Bron i haven't read many books on Islam at all. I'll check out the library if not there's an Islamic bookstore here in Melb, may have to pay them a visit.

i was talking to DH about it at dinner, asking him about evolution etc.. and he got all angry at me as to why i was disbelieving what the Koran writes about. He told me that i was denying Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and Allah, whereas i wasn't denying it, just questioning it

Snugglybean - i agree with you on the "time" thing. God's time is different to ours.

I've got heaps more questions about religion, so Nelle please move this thread.

Do you believe that God has pre-determined when we will die before/as we are born or do we control as to when we are going to die?
This question is applicable to ALL religions, so all responses appreciated

[Phteven]

I do believe in pre-determination and I'm comfortable with it because I think that Allah is the best of planners. That doesn't mean that we don't also have free will to make whatever choices we want only that Allah knows what our choices will be before we make them.

ETA - here is one of Shaikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller's articles.
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/evolve.htm

[Turkish Delight]

That's what i believe too.

I had this conversation with the guy who i share an office with at work. He was so against the idea of pre-determined life. He asked me then why does God choose to to give some people really short life spans (as in dying during childhood) if he is supposed to be a good God and that we should follow in his footsteps. I had told him, it was a random selection and that if all people lived to 115, then the world would be overpopulated and resources which God has given to us to manage would diminish.

He asked why so many children from his family (back 200 years ago) died at such a young age due to illness? Survival of the fitest.

How does God choose who dies young and who dies when they are 105?

PS thanks for the link - i'll read up on it.

[Phteven]

IMO, a child who dies young has been blessed in a way. They are gauranteed paradise because they're not responsible for any sins they have comitted. I hope by that you don't think I'm trivialising the pain of those left behind. I guess to someone who doesn't believe in the afterlife a short life would seem a huge tragedy because that's the only life they see but if you believe in eternal existance the human life span in less than the blink of an eye even if you live to 100.
I guess that it does seem unfair that some people get so much and others get so little but Allah is fair so in the afterlife it all evens out. Suffering on Earth expediates our sins so in a way that too is a blessing.

Just my opinion

[Maruschke]

Do you believe that God has pre-determined when we will die before/as we are born or do we control as to when we are going to die?
This question is applicable to ALL religions, so all responses appreciated

Yep, I believe the time of our birth, and the length of our life, are pre determined in advance. God makes promises in His Word. How can He make promises if He doesn't know what will happen?

Of course, I am speaking from a christian perspective. If you want the christian scriptures, let me know.

EDIT Bron... did you say there was a 'questions' thread that we could ask questions about Islam?

[willow5]

I do believe in pre-determination and I'm comfortable with it because I think that Allah is the best of planners. That doesn't mean that we don't also have free will to make whatever choices we want only that Allah knows what our choices will be before we make them.

ETA - here is one of Shaikh Nuh Ha Mim Keller's articles.
Evolution and Islam

If it is pre-determined and planned for us then the choices we are making are not our own are they?
Does it matter what choices we make if the end result is pre-determined?