Registered User
I always love your posts.
I don't think it's about insecurity, Entreat. I think it's about women being fed this idea that they're entitled to 'have it all' - a man who provides for them, cooks, cleans up the house, rubs their bloody feet or back for them after HE'S been at work all day, 'respects' them (ie, is under the thumb and does what he's told, when he's told to) and then has to go whistling for a bit of physical intimacy because she is 'too tired', 'too sore', 'isn't in the mood' or a million other lame excuses for not showing a bit of appreciation for all that her bloke does for her and the kids. I've seen heaps of posts over the years where I've just kind of goneat the lack of consideration shown to some husbands by their wives.
I can understand that mums are tired. Hormonal. Up all night with a crying baby. Injured during childbirth and less capable of getting back in the saddle straight away, or having emotional difficulty with finding the balance between being a lover and a mother. Heck, I've been there myself and worked through all of those issues and many more.
I still think it's selfish, inconsiderate and greedy of anybody to demand so much from their partner and then withhold what is (to a lot of men) one of the most important aspects of a healthy relationship.
These issues can be worked on and I just get the feeling (of course I'm speaking in generalisations here and not pointing fingers at any particular person or situation, I know everybody's circumstances are different) that a lot of women, somewhere along the way, lose all interest in the *giving* part of the relationship and believe that they are entitled instead to take, take, take - and that they somehow 'deserve' it. I feel that I *do* deserve to have a man who loves, respects, protects and supports me, but I also return the favour... and I take my clothes off for him even if I'm not really in the mood for it because hey, he deserves to feel special, too!
My DH and I have had our rough patches. But the fact is that we have sex probably 5 nights out of 7. Sometimes he wants it and I don't, and I just do it anyway because I know it makes him feel loved, it makes him feel that I'm attracted to him, it gives his ego a boost when he puts in the effort to get me off because it proves to him that he is 'a man' and that I am very happy with him in all aspects. I may not always get right into it but I like the physical closeness with him, touching and smelling and tasting him and being so near to him - I honestly feel that sex is a very important part of keeping our relationship healthy and I have absolutely no doubt that if I were to withhold sex (for no good reason like, 'I'm just not in the mood') for any great period of time, we would probably split up as he DOES have needs and we SHOULD be able to overcome whatever issues we have in order to have a healthy sex life. And if we can't, then there's something very wrong with one or both of us.
So yeah, long story short, I think lots of women take their men and their relationships for granted. Yes, you shouldn't ever have sex with someone unless you want to, but wtf's wrong with you when you don't want to for months and months on end (without a medical reason)? Why do we think we're so special that we can just live our lives and deny our partners the loving intimacy they deserve (and usually have enjoyed up until pregnancy or childbirth) and have no consideration for their feelings, and instead make it all about us and OUR 'needs' (or lack of)? Our blokes are great, too, if all they ask is a bit of nookie a few times a month then it's pretty mean of us to deny him purely because we just can't be bothered...
Moderator
I wasn't attacking you, or anyone in particular. It just really, really ticks me off that some women think this way.
It may be your truth but it certainly isnt mine. Nor is it the truth of a lot of women I know.
I just dont think by making sweeping generalisations that perpetuate a stereotype, we are doing the sisterhood any favours at all.
Registered User
But I'm not denying women their sexuality at all, just acknowledging that it is different in general to men's sexuality. Where is the harm in that? Literature is full of proof of this. Have a look at what breastfeeding does to the hormones in women... the act of breastfeeding releases the same chemicals we get from an orgasm. That is one big reason why a womans libido is lower during breastfeeding - they are getting their "fix" from something other than sex with their partner. And it's not just breastfeeding, it's other things too. Women get more of this same chemical from normal day to day affection then men do. I'm not making this up, this is genuine documented differences between men and women. Understanding the differences can help you understand your partner better and have a better sex life, not a worse one.
In general, we have a lower libido than our spouses and it actually benefits the sisterhood to get this out in the open and discuss how as a couple we are going to deal with this difference and maintain a happy healthy relationship.
And I don't see why the way anyone else (me) thinks, ticks you off? We all have different opinions, no need to let others opinions irk us.
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Well I disagree with the OP. Because after my first VB I was so vaginally damaged and traumatised that it was well past the 6 month mark before there was any jiggy getting on and at least another 6 months after that before it was a pain-free experience for me. Should I have "sucked that up"???
OK, so not the norm for VBs but if my DH had been entitled or insisted on his conjugal rights during that time it would've tipped me right over the edge.
Registered User
there are so many points in this post that make me go "wtf?" - there was no one in here telling YOU to put out. it was a general observation that sex is an important part of a relationship, and it is something that sometimes you may not FEEL like, but, if you put yourself in the position of actually trying to get past that, it can be enjoyable and CAN be a really great way of making your relationship stronger after you have kids. you obviously had a degree of sexual contact (and, dare i say it, enjoyment) BEFORE you had the baby - i guess the point being made is that, yes, your relationship will change due to the changes in your life, but it doesn't have to change to the degree where sex is non-existent
I, for one, find it ABHORRENT that ANYONE could suggest that I have sex with my husband because i'm insecure! we equally often initiate sexual contact - sometimes, it happens, sometimes it doesn't. sometimes DD is awake, and as much as we'd like to, we can't. Other times, one of us is too tired or just not in the mood. i certainly don't lay there and "think of England" while he does his thing. If it's not working for me, it's not happening at all! i don't feel any expectation to orgasm during every sexual encounter - it's nice, but if it doesn't happen, it doesn't mean i haven't enjoyed the experience! Any and ALL sexual contact we have is enjoyable for BOTH of us
oh, and maybe i'm lucky, but the statement about getting no help - i don't find that to be the case in our relationship (and in the relationship of many of our friends) - DH gets up to DD as often, if not MORE than me (and that was the case even when he was working away full time). I still BF, and it hasn't dampened my libido at all. DD feeds over night most nights (it's getting better slowly) but DH still gets up to her, makes sure she is dry, then brings her into bed with us. i snooze while i feed her. have done since birth basically. yeah, i might be in a lighter sleep, but i'm still sleeping
and maybe i'm nuts - but i actually LOVE half asleep sex - being so relaxed cos i'm almost asleep, and having him woo me, make love to me. sigh. LOVE IT! he knows if i say no, i mean no, and he won't push it - but i don't mind being woken when he comes to bed later than me, to feel him adoring me like that...
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MD, the OP admitted that there are times that it isn't possible due to damage from birth.
Registered User
Look, all I want to say is that there is nothing that gets me in the mood like.... absolutely nothing sexier.... than a man who cooks dinner, baths the kids and reads them a story. And then even if bedtime is a shenanigans, a nice cold glass of sparkling can fix that too... and then we’re all happy. Relationships are all about sharing and caring, give and take, blah, blah, blah, yes of course I’ll have sex with you, just load the dishwasher for me please darling.
Last edited by Epacris; February 27th, 2011 at 07:32 PM. : typo
Moderator
I must be a freak of nature. I love sex. I need sex. I have as high a sex drive as any man I have been with. Higher than some.
Apparently my vajayjay hasnt read the studies that say I should be getting my hormonal fix through means other than orgasm.
Registered User
tehehehe maybe that's why i have a lot of desire for my Man - he is a deomesticated fella who does the cooking and cleaning and helps with the poppet!
Registered User
Blatant misrepresentation of my position. I never once said should, just that we have more than one way of getting a fix. No longer worth conversing with you.
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A man in an apron.....Grrrrrowwl....
BellyBelly Member
I think there is also the misconception that sex is only NEED for men. I've personally never really understood the children = no sex thing just because it is so far from my own experience because in my relationship I am the one with the higher libido. Unless there is a reason not too, like sickness or sore bits, I want to have sex, preferably daily. Geez, if I'm honest, I'd want it morning AND night if we had the time. I'm not going to lie, I like to O - it helps me sleep, it's a good stress reliefand I like feeling close to my DH. It's my night cap so to speak, and it's true that the more you have it the more you want it. I love making love to my husband. Even after 11 years I'm still greedy for HIM. And since he got his circumcision (an act of solidarity when we had DS done) thank God, he's never been more randy - I like it... a LOT! Finally our libidos are on the same level, but it hasn't always been that way. I can tell you, it can hurt a lot to be rebuffed when you've put yourself out to initiate and you are always the one initiating. It's a horrible feeling to have to resort to self-love, not as an addition to your sex life but as a substitute because you can't get it from where you want it. The partner with the lowest libido controls the sex, and it's not fair to always expect the other partner to be responsible for maintaining that part of the relationship by constantly putting themselves out there.
Sorry Maruschke, I've got to disagree with you. I do not get enough of a pleasure fix from the hormones released during breastfeeding or other areas to negate my desire for sex. Everyone is different and effected by hormones in different ways, and I think things are best kept about personal experience rather than sweeping judgements which cover all. If anything that fix could make me want even more sex... What effects people's desire is as individual as they are.
Registered User
After that last bit, I actualy thought you may have gone off to pounce on your DH
I have a great DH, we do not have sex as much as he would like but he does not help around the house as much as I would like. He may go off to work and come home after a long day, but that does not mean that my day has been any less harder then his just because I did not leave home. I try, he tries. As much as I love him and he is the big love of my life, if he ever said he wanted to leave me because we don't have enough sex then he can go. Sex will never define our marriage as far as I am concerned (and I am not saying that for some it does and that that is all their relationship is about), sex is a minor role in our lives.
Registered User
Ok, so where's the balance point then between his needs and her needs? If it's ok for a man to go without for 6 months when there's a physical issue, why isn't it also ok for a man to go without when there's an equally compelling emotional/psychological issue? I'm just not buying the line that sex is so totally integral to a man's wellbeing. Not saying it's necessarily ok when sex is absent from the relationship for extended period of time, but there is a lot more to both intimacy and the balance of power in a marriage than whether you're getting it on x times per week.
Moderator
Does anyone remember the similarly "controversial" article by Bettina Arndt on this very same topic a couple of years back??
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Just had another thought to throw into the mix....
Would you even WANT to have sex/make love/bump uglies/BD with anyone, let alone your partner, if they didnt really want to and were just doing it out of a sense of duty or to please you?
Would you prefer that to no sex at all?
Keen to hear what you think....
n2l
Registered User
Not all generalisations are pointless or wrong. There will always be women at the extremes at both ends of this scale, but the presence of extremes and outliers don't negate the fact that the central majority of women have a libido lower than their partners, and are hormonally affected by many things in addition to sex, such as breastfeeding. You and n2l might not fit that generalisation, but with so many women facing this issue I feel it is beneficial to discuss it. Doesn't make either of you wrong, neither does it make me wrong.
For what it's worth, I never said breastfeeding negates the need for sex, it just has the effect of lowering libido (on average) because it releases that feel good hormone. Just like hugs can do.
What you said about having higher libido than your DP is spot on though... there are huge issues that pop up when libidos are not matched and we need to learn a way of coming to a solution with our partners. I think that's what the general thrust (pardon the pun) of this thread is about. Which person is going to negotiate, and how much? Thanks for saying it, because it is a great insight to the lives of many (not all) men out there.
Registered User
To recap:
So, when talking about situations other than the above, we got started on this thread. Marushke helpfully clarified things:there can be issues which are physically related to birth which can make it painful or impossible, and sometimes women find themselves trapped with men who are utter pigs who don't deserve them or their lovely children, and sometimes relationship troubles that were there pre-baby can be magnified, and sometimes sex is out-of-bounds during pregnancy, and sometimes we feel fat or unattractive and yes we are all tired after we have a baby.
Others joined in:I think this whole issue really needs to be about women having sex after a baby because they want to, because they are liberated to and being very careful that they aren't doing it because there is pressure to conform to societal norms of being a 'good wife/partner'. It also comes down a lot to the trust and respect in that relationship.
I totally agree that maintaining your relationship as a couple is hugely important. And not to mention pretty tough in those first weeks and months with a new baby!! But I think there are some very valid reasons why sex can take a long time to be something that a mum, and at times a dad, can be comfortable with. I think rather than feeling the pressure to have sex, couples can boost their relationship by exploring other ways of being intimate - good communication, nurturing, sensual but not sexual experiences. This can really boost a relationship as couples get to know each other in new ways and learn to please each other without sex.So this is one time when reading past the title helps clear up misunderstandings....I agree with you, I think women are often steotyped, the same way that men are, into thinking about sex in a certain way. There are a lot of stereotypes that say 'men should chase women for sex and women should be chased'. Not all relationships are like that, but it is there - portrayed in the media, movies all of that kind of thing that tell women not to be interested in sex because it is not very feminine. I also think women are also stereotyped into the idea of being a 'good mum/parent' and often that does translate to giving everything to your baby and not having emotional/physical energy left for your partner.
Here is more food for thought:
what is mentally sexy
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