What happens to the sisterhood when you FF?

[Mother Goose]

Opening threads to have a go at a person in another thread is hurtful - the very thing that was touted as the reason for this thread!

I haven't actually interpreted this thread as being designed to have a go at a particular person. More that the OP is crying out for support in their decision. That THEY feel unsupported in FFing. I, as a poster in this thread, feel that those who have replied have not tried to make this into a "them and us" type thread but to support the OP by validating the OP's feelings, sharing their own experiences in how they have perceived they have not been supported (or have been supported), and offering advice on how they have dealt with those feelings. But, that is my interpretation - it can be difficult to interpret the feelings, emotions, and motives behind the words on a screen.

I LOVE the reference to comparing hot dogs and bergan salad sandwhich! gotta work out how to drop that into a conversation with someone I know!

[TeniBear]

Ohh no... I'm so sorry... I know it wasn't me who said it, but the post you're talking about was in a thread I started If anything I said myself was hurtful, I really am sorry because that wasn't the point of the thread at all. I was just frustrated because my "friend" was acting as if I didn't know anything about being a mum and I couldn't do anything about it...

[kirsty_lee]

I haven't actually interpreted this thread as being designed to have a go at a particular person. More that the OP is crying out for support in their decision. That THEY feel unsupported in FFing. I, as a poster in this thread, feel that those who have replied have not tried to make this into a "them and us" type thread but to support the OP by validating the OP's feelings, sharing their own experiences in how they have perceived they have not been supported (or have been supported), and offering advice on how they have dealt with those feelings. But, that is my interpretation - it can be difficult to interpret the feelings, emotions, and motives behind the words on a screen.

:yeahthat:

[[M]umma[M]ia]

I wasn't going to post in here because to me, imo, its a never ending debate. But, I could of written your post word for word when I was first making the decision about making the switch because SHE needed it. I cried for a week, and then realised that it wasn't the decision that was making me so upset, it was that I would have to say that I had failed and had to ff, and people would judge me. No matter what anyone says, it happens ALOT, whether intentional or not, whether it's subtle or not, it happens. I even had one member tell me IN THE CHAT ROOM that I had made the decision for my own selfish reasons that I hadn't tried hard enough and that it was my child that was going to suffer because I was being selfish. that for me was one of the most painful things to hear. And I cried some more. I felt like a horrible mother. I know EXACTLY how your feeling babe, and even I read that comment and went errr insensitive. But you know what I have come to realise in the past few months? And this is totally my opinion and anyone they like can jump up and down and get upset with it. But I am Ava's mother. I feed her, shelter her, cuddle her when she's sad or sick. No one else does that, therefore NO ONE else has the right to say what I should and shouldn't be doing. No one on this forum, nor any forum will EVER make me feel guilty or bad for any decisions that I have made because regardless of what anyone else thinks, at the end of the day I made those decisions in the best interest of my child. I formula fed, I control cried, I disposable nappied, i've smacked, i've time out'd, I fed her solids before 6 months and I am DAME proud of doing all of that. Just remember hun, YOUR child. No one wakes up and thinks, hey formula is apparently bad for kids, I think I am going to give it to them because it will harm them. There is no malicious intent in feeding your child formula. yep it totally sucks that we couldn't finish our breastfeeding journey. But don't let anyone make you feel guilty for it babe, cause you know what. It's always something that someone isn't happy with. Jmo

:yeahthat:

[Rouge]

It is us and them, when the same people who obviously have issues, and think that BB is a big FF hating site only come back to discuss topics like this.

I just wish people could feel supported no matter what they did, instead of only coming together when they feel downtrodden. When it's obvious that some of us desperately do not want ANYONE to feel that way. And anyone can feel that way no matter what you do. And no I'm not trying to say the feelings discussed in this thread are irrelevant. Because of course they are. But I really am sick of the witch hunt against BB by older members... I've been here for 6 and a half years and this keeps getting rehashed again and again, and usually by those who can't let go of their issues. And from MY POV it hurts. It hurts because I and many others who have been on both sides of the fence try time and again to explain that we DO NOT feel badly towards FF'ers... but it doesn't matter... it continually falls on deaf ear. Because it's easier to ignore the fact that we are pooring our hearts out to make other's comfortable... so it's easier to just think we are all just a bunch of FF haters. So continue with your hate if you must towards those who you think hate you. Because that is logic at it's best.

But I will say this for the last time. I KNOW what it feels like to have regrets, or guilt associated with choosing formula, I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and I certainly wouldn't judge anyone for that either. And y'know what? The majority of the mod team have at one point or another FF a child. So why would they judge you, or encourage other's to judge you... isn't that in turn judging themselves?

[Inanna]

Yes NikiW you're right, that was the post that upset me and as much as I thought I had made this conscious decision to nourish my child, rather than let her starve just because she was getting a little breast milk, my heart absolutely aches that it did not work out. Perhaps it was a careless post but it really, really hurt.

That's why I understand this is in response to a post.

I don't think though MG that support is always being told what you want to hear... For me, I don't want to hear that I am making the right choice... No one can know that but me. I think we (this is a sociological view point) as a society look for validation for our choices. I think that is outsourcing our responsibility.

This cannot with authenticity happen from an outside source. We need to make our choices and own them. Own the crappy feelings, own the insecurities...

I don't think it is helpful or wise to blindly support decisions that others make. As such I would never say: "you did the right thing by breast feeding" - for I don't know that mother might be on drugs that are not conducive, may smoke, may drink excessively etc etc...

I can and do and will say that breastmilk is the best milk for babies most of the time. I will also say that breastfeeding can and often is hard work at the beginning. Without dedication & a belief that it is the best thing (and sometimes the only thing) for babies women will often submit to the VERY loud voice of family, media and colloquial "evidence"... My job is, has and always will be to always support the truth that it is the best way.

We are a consumer driven culture. If the boobies don't work we are told to reach for the tin - that all that matters is the baby is fed. I personally reject that as a truth. I don't think that's the only important thing. This is not the thread to go into that. But I am happy to speak more freely in a thread designed specifically for that!

As a breastfeeding mother I resent the oft said line that only a woman who has tried to BF and had to resort to a tin can know the trials.

I challenge that view with my own personal experiences.

Again - this is not the thread for that.

[Nelle]

This is what I am trying to say I guess - that I honestly don't believe most people deliberately try to make others feel guilty about their decisions. Which is why I am a huge advocate of PMing someone to clarify what they are trying to say and asking did they realise that your feelings were hurt.

That way we can be sure of the answer - either they reply and clarify that they never meant to cause hurt with their words or they reply (or not) and the matter can't be resolved. But at least they have been given a chance to clarify. I really don't think people are insensitive on purpose - I sort of see insensitive as sometimes meaning people can't sense or see the harm they were doing. And if you find out someone has hurt you on purpose - then you are all the wiser and can stay away from them.

I just see us not giving each other the benefit of the doubt. We assume the worst of people and it's not fair to each other. If someone assumes that we're not looking after the best interests of our child, that's not fair. And if someone assumes that we're trying to make someone else guilty, that's not fair. xo

[Trillian]

I think the main point that a lot of people are missing is that you can support someone 100% but at the same time not agree with what they are doing. This applies to life in general too. Its like having a friend who you know is making choices for herself that you would never do and don't agree with, but because she is your friend you support her 100% because thats what friends do for each other. Just because you may not have people agreeing that formula is the best thing since sliced bread doesn't mean that they don't support you, because support is so much more than just agreeing with you. So when someone says "I support you" and then in the next breath espouses the virtues of BF, that doesn't mean they don't support you (although their timing is crap LOL).

And I agree with Inanna 100% in her post. BB is first and foremost a gentle parenting forum and that encompases BF as a major part of it, but it is also a place for support because no one could be so cruel to shun a mother when she is struggling. We all know that not everyone has a wonderful support system that helps them through the rough patch and an online community can only do so much for someone. I know myself that I have always felt 100% supported when it comes to feeding my baby even though it's not what the site advocates, or heck, even what I advocate myself, and that's what the sisterhood really is. Unconditional support even when you dont always agree.

[Inanna]

It is also really hard to watch the egg shells...

I think that most people mean well most of the time. I don't for the life of my butt understand how women speaking of the benefits of breastfeeding denigrates women who don't?

Natural vaginal birth is best - I had a c/section... Far out I am no less of a mother/woman/sister! It was a choice I made. Regardless of the situation I still chose that. I have to own it. Be responsible.

A close girlfriend backed over her child. Its her responsibility to check in the rear view. It sucks, it was horrible (he is fine now), hideous. She didn't mean to run him over. But she did. She's not a worse mother or better mother. I am not having a go at her when I ask my kids to sit on the stairs while I reverse out the garage. I am saying that so I don't run them over - not to have a dig at her...


Do you know what I mean??? Anyone???

[Mother Goose]

The majority of the mod team have at one point or another FF a child. So why would they judge you, or encourage other's to judge you... isn't that in turn judging themselves?

I did actually try to point that out earlier in the thread Rouge. And I didn't interpret the OP as being aimed as Mods.

Inanna, i agree support isn't about being told what someone perceives you want to hear - but about sharing experiences. About encouraging someone to talk about their feelings and work through them. To listen to someone when they have something they need to offload (constructively).

Please don't think I'm being argumentative or creating an us and them thread because that certainly isn't the case. Just trying to support the person who obviously feels the need to vent today.

And you're right Rouge - these threads have been a plenty over the years. I've certainly seen a great many in the 3 (?) years I've been here... and it is FRUSTRATING! But, at the end of the day, I see it as someone is struggling, has hit bursting point, and needs to get it out before they explode. Not that they are trying to be malicious. Just that they need to be supported in dealing with how they are feeling - the same way we support every other aspect of conception, pregnancy, birth, and parenting.

"But I really am sick of the witch hunt against BB by older members..." I have to say - I've only seen this happen once or twice (but it must happen more frequently from some of the posts in "From BellyBelly" type areas) and I too find that very disturbing. Especially since BB IS a caring and wonderful site. And haven't we all joined to research, support, and be supported? We may not all see eye to eye 100% of the time, but that would make us all boring! What would we discuss then?!

MG

[Inanna]

Hallelujah Trillian.

[Inanna]

I liked your last line MG - so true... Imagine if we all thought precisely the same thing... There is a word for that!

[Jellyfish]

I'll start this by saying I have never FF but I have to admit, I think the comment made was completely thoughtless. It wasn't about the benefits of breastfeeding in a general sense at all, it was quoting a formula feeder and saying a part of breastfeeding that they never got to experience is the most wonderful thing. THAT HURTS. Even as a breastfeeding mother, I can see that that is hurtful. The person KNOWS they missed out, they don't need it shoved in their face.

[Rouge]

MG please don't think I meant you at all. Your insights have been just as thought provoking as others, and I agree the OP needs vent just as we all do from time to time. Your words are your own and you've chosen them carefully, I can see that. And hey I get just emotional as the rest of us

[Mother Goose]

ppl posted whilst I slowly typed!

Do you know what I mean??? Anyone???

Yes I do! But support is about listening to someone and then helping them sort through their feelings. Not jumping up and saying "that's rubbish you feel that way. I'm right and you're wrong" (and no, I'm not saying anyone has said or implied that!!!!). For people to change their POV, beliefs, or to change, they need to be able to reach decisions for themselves. they need to look at ALL the facts, weigh it up, and then reach a conclusion. Sure, sometimes ppl still reach the wrong conclusion as I see it... but it could be the same conclusion as someone else. Which is why I agree with Nelle about seeking clarification Off the boards. Gives everyone a chance to breath!

Rouge - I didn't think that at all hon

Inanna - would that word be stupidity? 'cause if ppl had the same thoughts I do - it would fit snuggly in that category!

[Inanna]

Taken from that perspective it could seem harsh. However, the person in question replied with her explaination...

I didn't take it as offensive because I understood her to mean that drunk on milk sleep that babies do at the breast. Even my baby who fed incessantly did that. I think she was trying to explain that the hormones are there etc etc...

Having said all of that - just think for a minute how much less angst could have been caused if the person who was offended contacted the person her posted and stated her feelings?

Wouldn't that have been a less aggressive way of dealing with the conflict?

[Nelle]

You may be right Jitterbug, but I guess the person hurt by that could PM the person posting and let them know, and give them a chance to see what they might not have seen at the time. We all hurt each other and we all get hurt, because we're not perfect (I know, I know, you thought I was, it's an easy mistake to make ). I just like the idea of giving someone a chance to make amends, you know?

Deb - what on EARTH where you trying to spell? Hallelujah?

[Inanna]

That's it Nelle! I was passionate and inspired and couldn't be bottomed concentrating on Collins!