Hi guys, I know I never venture in here, but wanted to poke around in your brains a bit.
I have a friend, that was once considered my best friend, we did everything together, and then we sorta grew apart. And since then, have never really worked at getting our friendship back together.
She and her husband don't have any kids - can't.
I was chatting to her on facebook this morning, and thought - what the hell, I wanna ask her a few questions about why we aren't as close anymore.
It came out that she feels left out when around me and our other friends, because we all have kids. Thats' cool, I understand. Then it was mentioned that this is why we aren't as close anymore because she can't stand to be around kids. Fair enough. I asked if she wanted to have kids, and she said they have accepted the fact that they can't and never will. I asked if she was going to go through IVF and she said no, was just going to let things happen, and if it wasn't to be - so be it. I respect that.
DH said that she is being a little selfish by giving up friendships with all of us because they can't have kids - and the rest of us have at least 2 children.
I dont' really know how to approach this - as most people that I've met on here go through IVF or something similar to have a good chance of having a baby - so I'm a bit clueless as to how to approach this.
I dunno what I'm looking for in the way of answers, I want to keep my friendship with her cos she's a great chick - but its this big wall between us at the moment. And of course its difficult for me to "get" where she is coming from as I'm blessed with children and haven't had to go through the emotional struggle to get them.
I dunno... just not sure what to do/say/think. I feel bad for giving her a bit of a grilling actually on facebook!!!
I understand what your DH said about her being a little selfish - it probably does come across that way. I know for myself, we've been TTC for 2 1/2 years and I don't intend to try IVF etc, and I have times where I avoid our friends with kids. This doesn't go down well sometimes, especially now that my own sister has had a baby.
But, with all due respect to your husband and no malice intended, sometimes it hurts too damn much to be around happy families! I know that if we're invited out and I'm going to spend all my time being upset because they have kids and I don't, I won't go - it's not fair on my friends. We do have a lot to do with my friends AND their kids, but there are definitely times when I try and hide
Having said that, you said that she's 'accepted the fact they won't have children' - if this is a recent thing, then hopefully it won't be too long before she finds her way back to the group. Is there any way you two could get together without your kids? Obviously not forever, but just to ease her into the friendship again, obviously making sure she knows that you can't hide your kids from her. Maybe doing it slowly would be easier for her?
*This is all just my opinion, and I don't mean to hurt or cause offence, please PM me for clarification *
Last edited by Bumperstump Cummerbund; January 26th, 2009 at 12:20 PM.
Hi Arimeh
Gosh...sounds like you've had a heavy morning! My thoughts...from the journey we've been through...maybe you just need to let her go? I've been through times when we've decided to give up and I haven't been able to put my self in any situation that involved 'happy families'...something I was grieving for...grief is so different for everyone and even though I know no one was intentionally 'rubbing my nose in it' it 'felt' like the universe sure was! The friends that I've been able to turn to when I've come out of this place (been there many times!) were those that acknowledged that they had heard why I needed my space and left the door open for me. There's always so much more to a story...maybe she really wants to try IVF but here partner won't? What ever is going on for her I can assure you it is all consuming ...not only are you faced with the reality you may never have a family...no one ever treats you 'normally' again...relationships are changed and that is just another issue that made me 'angry'... as it's just one more thing to deal with...hence why hiding under the ROCK every now and again is all you can do to cope? Hope that makes sense? I really think all you can do is forgive her...love her...and let her go...she'll come back when she's ready? And how lovely of you to be taking the time to reflect on this....so many people don't...really compassionate
I know we have talked about it about 5 years ago and they had been "trying" and nothing was happening, so its not a new thought that they have just accepted it wasn't happening.
I feel sad if I think about letting my friendship go, but I totally get where you are coming from Ellie - thank you for sharing with me.
Like I said, DH thinks she is "sorta" being selfish - but I never said that - so I hope you guys didn't think that I said that? Maybe I need to clarify my position in my opening post more..
mel, as the others have mentioned, when you're in that space, it's damned hard, and you tend to isolate yourself to protect your own mental health. it's not that the people are people you don't like, you just simply can't relate to them. you tend to disappear into yourself until their kids are older and not so - ummm, how to put this - not so demanding of parental time and the parents have other interests again. this is by no means a reflection on the parents - it makes perfect sense that infants and toddlers take up the bulk of your time, and their achievements are YOUR achievements and as such they tend to take up a large portion of your life! when they are older (school age etc), you have more free time again and tend to branch out looking to find YOU again, and it's at that point that your friend may feel she can reconnect with you
the pain of what she is going through is great. even if she's accepted that she may never have children, that acceptance starts in the head and has to travel to the heart - the heart isn't so accepting. it's also DAMNED hard to connect with people that you don't feel you have anything in common with anymore - i've sat at many a bbq at my bro's place, surrounded by his friends and all their children - and inevitably, the talk always returns to children - and when you've not been there, it's like this invisible wall between you - you can't contribute cos you don't "know" what they're talking about as you've never been there kwim?
the best thing you can do for your friend is say "i'm really sorry, i don't know what you're going through, but i want to keep in contact as i'm sure we can chat" - as someone who has talked to you online, i know you can avoid kiddie talk, but maybe she doesn't know that. keep the contact on her terms, and when she's ready, then meet up.
HTH
BG
ETA: i can understand why your DH thinks it's selfish - coming from someone that was on that side of the fence, i FELT selfish at time - but self preservation is the most important thing. if HE was in a situation in which he felt extremely out of place and uncomfortable he'd withdraw from it and not return next time - that's how he has to see it!
It sounds like you two were close and that you really regret that you have drifted apart. I think that it is definitely worth trying to rebuild a bridge between the two of you so that you can reconnect and try to regain what you had in the past. Maybe let her know that you really miss her, that you understand that it's difficult for her to be around children, and that you are willing to catch up with her without your kids. Possibly suggest catching up for evening drinks or dessert after your kids would be in bed with your DH watching them. Plus, it might take off the pressure for her because that's more "adult time" than "kiddie time". Let her know that you'll avoid talking about the kidlets, but that you are there for her if she decides she would like to discuss her fertility problems with you.
You might find that she wants to reconnect with you just as much as you with her, but that she's not sure how to do it after distancing herself from people.
I recently reconnected with a friend from Uni that I hadn't spoken to in about 3-4 years (although our problem was just laziness on both parts with keeping in touch). The great thing was that when we caught up we fell straight back into old habits and it was like those years hadn't even passed
Thanks oh-wise-one that is BG.. that all made sense.
Thanks to you as well Krystie - thats a great idea.
We are currently talking on facebook - there are a LOT of issues there - and I'm just going for it - her grilling is over - never knew she had so many issues with me!!! So now its my turn for the grilling
I'm sure that the kids part forms a lot of our problems, but also the fact that I "hung" out with her ex boyfriend when my first marriage broke up (even though she was married at the time) and the fact that I didn't go to her wedding.
I think we're sorting out those issues first - then we'll go back to the "Children" chat.
you're not lacking in tact babe! if you were, would you have come in here and asked how to deal with the situation - i think not!
FWIW - there is probably lots of little stuff that, on it's own, means nothing - but all together, have just made your friendship "too hard" - so you work through it now and make a go of it if you can - that's how it is. if she is hung up on things like you hanging out with her ex (in any way) when he was her EX then her issues are deep and might not be about you at all - possibly you're jus thte one she's rejecting - to a degree - because of it.
Congrats on putting the effort into this friendship a go - there are many that would not!
DH and I were TTC for 3 years, and during that time most of our friends around us got pg and had babies - with no probs. DH and I struggled with deciding to do IVF and the stress around that. One thing I found was how isolating it was, and how afraid I was that if we did not have children, how alone we would be. This was because alot of the time the pain of seeing others with their kids, or healthy and pg, just hurt too much, and despite their good intentions, kids always entered their conversations. Also, it just seemed impossible to have a 'girls day' or social event without kids. So in the end I gave up trying to connect and just maintained 'minimal contact'. I figured that I would have to find a new group of friends - one without kids that could understand that there was a different life out there - and that was a scary thing to contemplate but I felt I had no choice, I could not go on dealing with my friends and their life - a life I so craved.
So I'm guessing that your friend is just trying to protect herself. Maybe suggest a social outing where there are no kids - chick flick then drink etc, and organise to have your kids looked after by someone that wont ring you etc while you are out, so you can be sure you wont need to bring them up in a conversation.
You guys have really opened my eyes as to what it is like - guess it never crosses your mind if you never experience it.
She has agreed to try to repair our friendship - so we are going to go shopping - she needs new clothes apparently. Doesn't want to go with our other mutual friend cos she doesn't want to make her feel bad (our mutual friend is quite a heavy girl - my friend is a size 6!!)
DH can look after the kids that day and I will promise to myself to NOT talk about the kids!!!
hi arimeh,
just my two bob, don't go way out of your way to not talk about kids because it will be obvious and just as difficult for her. I'm happy to hear how my friend's little ones are going and then move the conversation onto other topics. I also respect that my friends also have their own problems which are no less significant than mine and being a good friend, I want to share the burden of those issues. So be a good friend but she needs to come to the party at some stage as well. but my relationships have remained strong, so it's a bit different for you.
I think you just need to let her sort her issues out and let her know you are there - an nonjudgemental, supportive, honest friend.
Being childless when everyone else is popping them out at a rate of knots is truly something noone can appreciate unless you've been there. So the fact that you were even considerate enough to ask for feedback speaks volumes on what a kind, thoughtful friend you are. Good luck. I hope it all goes well.
that's my two bob, and as sunflowagirl said - it is just my opinion and not meant to offend anyone.
Last edited by grub17; January 26th, 2009 at 05:26 PM.
i agree hun - don't obvioulsly omit your children - they are a part of your life - just tell her from the outset that if things are getting uncomfy with something you say, then she needs to tell you. you'll have things about your life that you can't help but speak of - like the convo we had earlier where you're still wearning mat clothes ( ) - if you happen to say "i wish i could find every day pants as comfy as my mat pants" then it's no biggie - but don't then have a full on conversation about the hell of finding the best pants etc.
try to remember what it was that made you and her friends in the first place - what did you have in common? if either of you have something big coming up, discuss it - but if it revolves are kid things, minimise the kidlet aspect, and talk about how it impacts YOU! you're thinking of moving - that's about you and your DH and the opportunities for the two of you - the kidlets just go with you - so talk about that kind of thing kwim?
it's never possible to not discuss your children at all - if you did, you'd be a pretty cruddy mum - what you have to do is read her responses to the conversation, and if she doesn't engage you, change the topic. so, i guess what i'm saying is if you mention the kids and you get yes no, uh huh responses, she's not comfy - if you get "wow, that's fantastic, how is Mehkelti coping with day care" then you can see she wants to encourage that convo....
If she decides to talk about the fertility stuff, you do have a vague idea of what it's about - you don't have to know the facts and figures, but you can empathise (and you do it pretty well) - and if she chooses to divulge her reasons for not pursuing any treatment, that's up to her. if she mentions trying things, i'm pretty sure you have a reasonable understanding of things like PCOS, endo, IUI, IVF so will at least get what she's saying...
Enjoy your time out with your friend - and just see how it goes - if you don't have that same degree of comfort with her that you had before, itmight truly be that you're in different places in your life - it's damn hard to admit it, but sometimes it's just not possible to maintain friendships when your lives are so very different - esp when one has what another can never have kwim?
(and to you BG for telling everyone I"m still living in my maternity pants.. lol)
I think I'll just leave it up to her to bring up my kids - and let her lead the conversations - answer questions, but minimally. I'm sure if she wants to know more she can always ask right?
She can fish for information - saves me putting my foot in my mouth.
Well.. at least I have a plan!!!
Thanks guys - you are all gorgeous.
How should I deal with this?
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) - if you happen to say "i wish i could find every day pants as comfy as my mat pants" then it's no biggie - but don't then have a full on conversation about the hell of finding the best pants etc. 
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