Explaining Death to an 8 yr old

[aussienic]

MY grandmum is 92 and not well.. The Dr said yesterday she may only have a couple days left.. She has been semi concious since Monday and was unresponsive yesterday. Today however she woke up as such and was talking and drinking. She even had a bite to eat. Well not bite but something pureed as she has trouble swallowing at the moment... Anyways...

We have explained to our eldest about death but what we are wondering are the following?

Should we tell him she may not make it or just wait and see what happens? so in other words should we prepare him the best we can or just tell him when it happens?

I know this may sound morbid but I know I won't be in any state to discuss this afterwards


Should we let an 8yr old ( he will be 8 on monday) go to a viewing?

And what about his younger brother who will be 4 in September?

Ethan (8ish) is a highly emotional child and always has been so this is why I am reluctant to say anything to him at all but I also don't want to leave him unprepared..

With my son Isaac who is 4 in Sept he is more level headed but would he understand death? and would it be distressing for him to go to a viewing and funeral?

The reason for asking these questions is because you can't go back in a few days or weeks and say oh ok we should have done that.. You can't redo things in these situations.. I do know it does come down to what we feel our children can handle but I am curious what others may have done or seen others do..

thanks for reading my ramble.. I hope someone can offer me and my husband some advice

I should also say.. My boys are VERY close to GG (Great-Grandmum)

[paradise lost]

I would prepare your older DS.

If it were me (everyone's different) i'd talk about death as a natural conclusion to life, that it's sad for those left behind but not for the person that dies because they *insert your belief - go to heaven/get to rest/aren't in pain* and that everyone dies.

If he's sensitive and imaginative i would avoid refering to "going to sleep" as it might make him scared that if you or he or anyone goes to sleep they might die. I'd also try to avoid, until some distance of time is between you all and the event, if it happens now, getting bogged down in reasons etc. The truth is everyone dies, it's prudent to tell him she's old and ill so he recognises a reason for her death, and doesn't think people drop dead without warning all the time, but long conversations about illness (when they ask "but why, but why?" and one goes on answering and answering) tend to plant seeds - if GG has a cough and her cough is making her ill he might imagine when daddy has a cough, that he's about to die, kwim?

So i guess i'd prepare him by telling him GG is very old and not very well and that she might die. That everyone dies, usually when they're very old and have already done all the things they wanted to do in life and their body is tired. That they go to heaven (or whatever you believe - my mum told me she didn't know and that no-one really does when i asked where nana went when she died and that was enough for me aged 7, that lack of explanation was explanation enough) and it's sad for us but not for them.

As for the viewing....i think a child who understands death might cope very well with a viewing but equally it might be very frightening for a child to see his lovely, loving GG unresponsive and cold. That's very individual and i don't have any experience of it. I saw my mother about an hour after she'd passed and the memory isn't a good one. I was with her when she passed and that was more natural and easy to integrate. Perhaps letting his see her while she's still among you, to give her loves, might be more valuable, although i don't know how possible it will be if she's very poorly...?

I think your younger son will understand the dying part but not the finality. So GG died is fine, but when is GG coming back? A few weeks of asking is normal and telling him gently that GG can't come back anymore because she died will help him understand.

Bec

[mrsmac]

Bec has pretty much said everything I would say! My mum died when my DDs were 10 and 2, we let them come in and out of the room when she was near the end and they knew that she was going to die (not the 2yr old obviously) They both saw her after she died but I let them choose whether or not to see her and how long they wanted to be in the room.
As a teacher and a mum i find honesty and facts the best things with kids, as Bec said none of this "just fell asleep" stuff as it will scare the cr@p out of them. I find with the kids at school they can be surprisingly matter of fact about death even of close family members.
One thing i found really helpful when mum died and when grandma died 2 years ago was to have a support person there for the kids who wasn't directly involved- my MIL was brilliant with the girls after mum died and DH was after grandma's death so I could grieve without stressing about the girls and knowing they could grieve too. Unfortunately DH's grandfather died exactly a week before my grandma so that week and the funeral week ( their funerals were a week apart too) was a really tough time on us all)
One thing my kids have found comforting is that we told them that their grandma etc are in heaven looking out for them and that they are a star now. DD2 likes to point out grandma when the stars first come out at night- not for everyone but my kids like it.

[briggsy's girl]

firstly hun - huge hugs to you - this is a really tough issue to be dealing with.

my DH lost his brother just over two years ago when their great nieces/god daughters (DH's sisters grandchldren) were the ages your children are now. they took it very level headedly, but struggled with the suddeness of it. i think it's something that, although difficult, it might be better to explain to your boys that it will happen soon so that they are prepared. it's a really difficult conversation, and one only you know how to deal with for YOUR children, but knowing you yourself will be extremely emotional at the time, i would suggest it's probably best to tell them now. it will also help them if they know it's ok to be sad and that you will be sad at the time iykwim? the nieces i mentioned earlier never seen the adults get upset, so even though they understood what had happened, they didn't think they were allowed to show how sad they felt until i had a talk to them the morning of the funeral - up until that point, they hadn't realised that the adults were crying when they weren't in the room, so thought it was wrong for them to be showing they're sadness.

with respect to the funeral and the viewing - that's a really tough call. i think for your children to have closure, the funeral is a must. i lost family members as a child and wasn't allowed to say goodbye and i resented my parents for a long time. i know your children are young, but they need to be given the chance to say good bye - and again, it helps them to understand their grief if they see that adults are also hurting. as to the viewing - that is an entirely personal decision. at the time DH's brother passed, his nieces were taken to the viewing - i don't think it was explained to them what it was about, and they were really uncomfortable and distressed by it. DH and i ended up taking the girls outside and just talking to them about what they were feeling. if you have highly emotional children, it may not be the best idea - but, particularly for your 8 year old, i would honestly talk it through with him and gauge his level of understanding and whether you think it is necessary. again, this is a time when your own emotions will be running very high - and you need to take into account whether this is something your son needs to be a witness to or whether it will distress him more.

i know i haven't really answered your question and have primarily just waffled about personal experience - but i'm hoping that will help you a little

in advance, i'm really sorry for what you're going through - i lost my nan early this year so i know how you're feeling hun - take care of yourself and your family:hugs:

[Lucy]

Nic,

Firstly, I am so sorry for you with regard to your Grandmum.......hugs to you, and I hope you don't have too rough a time over it over the next few weeks.

I am far from an expert, but my brother died recently leaving his eight year old little son. As such I have been reading a lot of books about death & children and grief and children.

The key message that I take from all of the reading on the subject matter is that children, regardless of inate personality, appear to have a lot of questions as a result of death, but that they are afraid to ask, regardless of how supportive an environment they are in: almost as if they are cautious that simply by even airing their questions, that the feelings (which are most likely incredibly foreign to them) may "overflow".

Does that make any sense? (I am rambling a bit.....I am still a novice at this whole grief business myself.)

Anyway, the book that I have found most useful, and one that seemed to be the easiest to 'relate' to is Children`s Grief: A guide for parents, by Pam Heaney.

The problem is that all children are different, and this, coupled with your own grief, makes it so so so hard. Hence my suggestion for you to do some reading, then hopefully it'll become clearer on the way to proceed.

In my recent experience, I have found that my nephew is receptive when I discuss things very factually (ie I need to use words like "died" instead of "passed away", or "dads body was burned at the creamatorium" instead of "Dad is now in heaven".) I find that very very hard, but if I use more veiled phrases, I get a stony silence and it is almost as if my nephew knows I am trying to "make him open up".

In all honestly, and others may disagree, but the past few months have shown me that in relation to children and death, children need to be exposed to it all: the funeral, the viewings, the reasons why, the how: everything. (This is just my experience with my nephew.....obviously Ethan and Isaac may not feel the need for this, nor may you want to go through this.)

But I think you are spot on with

because you can't go back in a few days or weeks and say oh ok we should have done that.. You can't redo things in these situations.

I think that with children (and adults!) that knowledge and understanding give power, and that power gives confidence to children to sort through all of their emotions more easily, despite feeling really sad and missing a bereaved person. Does that make sense?

I am rambling. Sorry.

My heart is with you all, and please feel free to email me if you want any links to some useful grief sites, or just to go "blah"? lucy.mulvany@bellybelly.com.au

[~Jo~]

Youve got some great advice from all the girls. My nan died last year so the kids went through this. We prepared them in advance as Nan had dementia and advanced breast cancer. The concept of death was not new to them, we had experienced the death of pets before, but it was the first time of someone whom they loved and had a relationship with. They coped brilliantly by giving them factual matter of fact information.

We didnt want the kids at the viewing at all and I am so very very glad that we didnt. It was upsetting enough for me and my 3 sibs as it was, not because of the sadness of losing Nan, but more at the shock of the shell of the person that remained..it really wasnt Nan kwim. Id probably suggest not taking the kids to the viewing, it can be very very distressing, especially in old age.

Hope it goes well

Jo

[aussienic]

Thank you all for your advice and experiences..

I am going to sit my sons down today and talk about GG.

I think when it comes to the viewing I will let my son decide what he wants to do. When my Grandfather died I was 19. I was there when he died but I needed to ho to the viewing because I didn't believe he was dead and I was 19 and thinking that so I wonder how a 8 year old mind works in this situation?

For the funeral we will take all 3 boys as my inlaws will be there as well and I am sure they will have no problem watching the boys should they become upset or disruptive as the younger 2 no doubt will.

I hate to sit here thinking about all these things when Grandmum is still alive. I feel like I have written her of kwim? But I also know when the time does come I won't be in any state to think properly

Once again thanks everyone. Hopefully we won't have to do anything for a while to come but at least I and my DH are somewhat prepared to deal with things

[paradise lost]

I hate to sit here thinking about all these things when Grandmum is still alive. I feel like I have written her of kwim? But I also know when the time does come I won't be in any state to think properly

You're so right Nic, this is something you NEED to be prepared for. Also if this is the first time your boys will lose someone close to them, the way you handle it is going to impact on their whole lives.

Death is a fact of life, by being open about it and allowing them the chance to discuss it and be open about their feelings you're setting them up to be more self-assured people, who don't fear death because they have, from a young age, had the chance to understand and discuss it.

you must be having such a hard time yourself. You're not writing anyone off, you're allowing your children to prepare for something potentially very difficult and thus arming them with much greater ability to cope.

I understand how you felt about your Grandfather, my brother felt the same about Mum and he was there when she died, and like i was, shortly after, but he just couldn't believe it. It was something that preyed on his mind. Giving the boys the option is a good idea, especially for Ethan who you can prepare for it and support through it if it's something he needs to do.

I'm sure the boys' GG would be very proud of you if she was aware you were thinking about all this and preparing your children. To be able to put other people first at a time like this is very selfless and marks you out as a wonderful mother.

:hugs: Remember to take care of you too hun.

Bx

[aussienic]

Well I gave the boys "the talk: and boy.... was it interesting. Ethan who I said is highly emotional started sobbing.. I felt bad but I just didn't know how to deal with him.. Eventually he calmed himself down and stopped asking (imo) silly questions.. Well not so much questions but things.. If you give me my birthday present that will stop making me sad... and.... If yo et me play halo (xbox game) I will be happier ... **sigh** it was a long 2 hours

In the end I just said.. right... it is fine to be upset about GG as we all are but don't go turning it into all about you because it isn't. Stop asking for htings to make you feel better. and a few other thing but I can't remember what I said now.. But I was really annoyed at him and Isaac took the news as you would expect a 3yr old to but with Ethan walking around sobbing saying oh it was the last time I will see G and things along those lines Isaac got upset. I just said RIGHT.. I understand you are both sad and tht is fine but don't sit here crying about it now.. ( I know wrong thing to say)

I just got frustrated so from now on I am leaving the death conversations up to my husband...

and to top it off my husbands Grandmother went into hospital early hours this morning with chest pains. Thankfully she is fine and it was (we think) angina.. And she is coming home today

[briggsy's girl]

hun, i'm so sorry it was so hard on you. it's a very difficult conversation to have at any time. i hope things get a little easier on the understanding side for your boys over the coming days. it may have seemed like a shocker today to talk to Ethan about it but i'm sure now when something does happen, he'll have a better understanding.

take care - thinking of you

[Muppity]

Oh Nic

Hugs to you - it is a very hard time for you and your family.

I agree with everything that others have said and with how you are dealing with it.

I would also add that you should let them know that you will be sad. You will be really sad because you loved your G very much and you will miss her and it isn't their fault and if you are sad they can hug you (or similar) because that will make you happy again. Remember that they feed off your emotions (and it sounds like Ethan may have figured out that you are a little fragile at the moment).

Also, maybe plant a plant in the garden in her memory. You could make it a family expidition to the nursery to buy it and then all dig the hole and all plant it together and then have a little ceremony saying something like GG is gone now but she loved beautiful things and every time we look at this tree we will remember how wonderful she was and how much she loved us all. This may be a way of letting the boys open up and express how they are feeling as well.

Thinking of you.

[aussienic]

Taffy : what a great idea!! I will definetly do that...

I just feel bad and think I didn't deal with his emotions properly. I wasn't upset when talking to him I was just matter of fact about it.

He seems ok now but will start another conversation a bit later with him. and see how we go

[AngelPunks]

They have to be told before it happens, they also need to be taught that death is like birth, part of the cycle, and while it is a sad situation because they'll never see this person again, it is also not sad because this person has done what they needed to do on this earth and that they've gone onto the next stage but they will be keeping an eye on the family.

When my dad died when I was 6, I never got to go to the funeral, so I never got a real sense of closure, I thought for many years that he'd just left us, even though I'd been to his grave.

When my grandmother died, my nieces and nephews (13, 11, 9, 7) all went into her room at the nursing home to say goodbye to her, mum & I had been sitting with her for a few hours, waiting for the family to arrive. Each of them had closure with their great-grandmother, they all took the funeral just that little bit easier (even though it was on xmas eve).

[Deltadawn]

Hi Aussienic

I'm quite busy at work so I dont have time to read all the responses so hopefully I'm not duplicating what others have been saying.

I was 9 and my sister was 6 when my Nana died. My Mum was very honest with me which I now appreciate and told me Nana was very sick and God was going to ask her to come to heaven soon. Mum didnt allow my sister or I to see Nana at the hospital in her final days as she was hooked up to all and sundry and Mum said she didnt want us remembering Nana like that so she decided not to let us come up to the hospital. To this day, I dont know whether that was better or not. We never got to say goodbye but in the longrun, I will always remember my Nana who used to get stuck on swings and always had musks in her purse and who always let me stay up and watch "Murder She Wrote" when she babysat us etc. I think the lifelong memories of my Nana will always outweigh not being able to say goodbye. She was unconscious anyway so she was probably unaware of who was there anyway.

My DH's Nana passed away last December and we were there until the end and even now, 7 months later, I only remember her lying in a hospital bed so I think my parents made the right choice.

I hope my story helps.

[aussienic]

Just thought I would update in here..

My Grandmum passed away on Monday the 30th July

That day was also my son's 8th Birthday.. We didn't tell him till after breakfast as we wanted him to enjoy some part of his Birthday.. Of course when he was told his heart broke and he cried.. We came here to my mums ( My mum was my grandmums carer for the past 10 yrs) Grandmum died in her bed in her sleep between 4 and 6am.. Anyways We were all very upset as you would imagine but my children dealt with it wonderfully. It made things easier that Ethan was distratced by birthday presents ect

The following days were not so great and he would have many break downs. In the end we decided on a viewing and on Thursday we took My eldest son down to say goodbye. He handled it beautifully. He did break down when we got outside and my middle son Isaac who will be 4 in September worked out what we were doing and said "Is GG in that building?" We said yes and then he too got upset and wanted to say goodbye.. After much discussion with Isaac and the lady inside the building we took Isaac in to say goodbye. He walked up and said "goodbye GG I miss you I love you" and I have to say we made the best decision by letting our boys do that...

They are still sad but none of us feel that overwhelming sadness anymore. We said good bye!!

The Funeral is Tuesday. All 3 boys will come to the Church but my inlaws are looking after them when we go to the Cemetary. I do not think they will cope with the cemetary as I will be upset and DH or I do not want them to see me that upset...

Anyways thanks for all the suggestions ect.. I am going home on Wednesday...

[briggsy's girl]

nic, i'm so sorry to hear your sad news hun - my heart goes out to you and your family

take care

[Lucy]

Nic, huge hugs to you. I am so sorry about your Grandmum. My thoughts are with you all at this sad time.

It sounds like the children have dealt with it well so far. Hats off to you for preparing them so well.

As the the days and weeks and motnhs go by, no doubt you and they will feel the full gamet of grieving emotions.....there is no "right" or "wrong" way to grieve I guess, and you will have each other to ease you all through.....xx

[mrsmac]

I am so sorry to hear this Nic but glad you're boys are Ok and handling it well. You have helped them immensely by being prepared and preparing them.As Lucy says there will still be bad times but at least you won't be plagued by what ifs.