I don't know what to do

[Junglemum]

FJ.

Asking for help is not a sign of failure, more a sign of a concerned parent wanting to do what is best for their child.

Talking to his teacher or a councellor might really help, and also give you some positive feedback that you are doing a great job, and some tips to help you deal with his challenging behaviour.

[sneakysparkle]

Hey FJ, sorry to hear things are hard atm hang in there darl you are a great mother!

Just a couple of things that may help - firstly do some research on vitamin therapy - apparently Niacin is really amazing for behaviour... and easier than a diet overhaul

The other thing is just a story about my nephew - he had always been a sullen child - my sis had always had difficulties with him. We just thought that was his personality until he was diagnosed with having double vision - he didn't know any different, so even though he was 8 at the time of diagnosis he didn't tell anyone because he didn't know it wasn't normal!
After corrective surgery he has been a different child - so happy and attentive at school, and co-operative at home!
I guess my point is there could be something going on that you just don't know about.

I hope things get better soon darl

[Bathsheba]

That reminds me! My DD's grade 5 teacher tactfully suggested we had our DD's hearing tested. At first we thought: "Nah, she does't have a problem... she can hear the word "ice-cream" from the back lane if I whisper it in the kitchen!". But, when we were at our wit's end we decided to follow her advice... and sure enough it turned out that my DD has a particular type of hearing problem: an inability to distinguish important noise from background noise. So if, for example, the TV was on and I asked her to do somnething she might seem as if she was ignoring me but in reality she just wasn't able to tune into me. The doctor discovered this when he used white noise in the headphones and asked her to repeat the words that she heard which was played at the same time... she couldn't... but if he stopped the white noise and just played a very very quiet sound she could hear it! But everything else had to be silent. It's not so much a problem with her ears... it's a brain processing issue that is extremely common and undiagnosed. Most kids grow out of it by the time they reach high school... but until then they are very easily distracted in the classroom because they can't follow the teacher's instructions. I'm not saying your son has this problem... just putting it out there.

[*Efjay*]

I do do WAY to much for him, I know a 6 yr old can put his own socks on, clothes on etc. He jjust doesn't, takes too long etc which is why I just do it. He probably has his thumb over me more then I realise.

I don't feel taking him to school in his PJs will help at all. He just isn't the kind to react to that. He doesn't react to anything really. Even the smack he got this morning just resulted in him screaming at me & hitting me.
When he is sent to his room, in order to get him to stay there for more then a second I have to hold the door shut. Other wise he just comes out yelling & screaming at me & usually Glenn also.

Glenn is a sweety & often will tel evan off also or go in to be with him. But Evan just treats him like dirt when he is in his moods. I often end up with Glenn in tears because Evan is yelling at him so much.

I wish there wasa simple answer. A switch I didn't know about that I can flick to "good Boy", its probably up his bum, as he carries on like he has something stuck up there most of the time LMAO!

Today I am tired, unwell & pregnant so I know this is a bad day made worse by that.

Its very reasusing hearing that others are dealing with the same sort of thing.

Thanks everyone. I might pull his teacher aside this afternoon if I can & ask what he is like at school & just mention that at home he is a dificult. Let it go fromt ehre & see what is said, comes of it.
He told DH that one of the kids is picking on him at school, which while I am not dismissing, I don't believe either because the kid he named is also the same kid he is hanging to go to his house every afternoon, the two also have the same pictures in their work books etc etc. I think he was just stalling, looking for an excuse to not go to school. I will also ask his teacher about it though. Evan is a pretty popular kid at school so I do find it a litle hard to believe that he is being picked on but as I said I wont dismiss it.

He likes Lists. I might try buying a white board & doing up a day chart that he can tick off as he goes. DH gives teh boys $5 pocket money each weekend (personally I think thats WAY to much) if they have done things like brush teeth, get dressed, put PJ's on bed etc through the week.
I might make it a reward system, the ticks wil show if he has done enough to get it.

eta - I had his hearing checked when he was 4. It was fine then. would it be worth checking it again 2 yrs on?

[Pretty Butterfly]

Oh hon, most of us have been there, you are a great mum, or you wouldn't be concerned, and doing whats best for your son!!

Things that worked with my 8 yr old ( simular to Evan)

* music in the morning, no tv. Playing it in the background made us all relaxed and not as rushed, and you seem to get it all done.

* I REFUSED to argue with him. At all. If he wasn't dressed, I dropped him at school in pj's, with his unifrom in a bag. Only had to do it twice!! If he didn't eat breaky, he went without. I put extra in his lunch box. I ended up putting internal locks on the pantry, gave a choice from 2 foods, and thats it. He soon ate like us, and is now a great eater. I tried to not fight, but be smarter than he was.

* One- on -one at bed time. I do it with them all. They all go at the same time, and we go into them one at a time. They tend to talk more when curled up in bed.

But I would also get him checked out too. Better to be safe, and know whats going on.
Good luck babe!!!

[Jennifer13]

7am Get Up
7.05 Come out for breakfast
7.20 pack bag
7.25 brush teeth
7.30 Get dressed

They had to leave at about 7.45 to be at my DD's school at 8am (she went into Before Care).

She had a digital clock in her bedroom. It was at about this age that she could read well enough to know what the list said... at first I had to help her.

I think Bath's suggestion of a set routine is a good idea. Please feel free to ignore this advice as from someone who is only dealing with a 2 yr old that needs constant convincing - rather than a 6 yr old!

I saw on one of those TV shows 'Little Angels' the other day where the child psychologist (also dealing with a 6 yr old but he had ADHD) made up a routine chart, but used pictures and got the kids to tick next to each picture when they'd completed that task for the morning. If he got to the end of the week with all ticks then he got a reward (a trip to a park or something).

The pictures were simple - a bowl for breakfast, clothes for getting dressed, toothbrush, shoes.

Maybe that would help? The kids got heaps of praise when they finished all of their tasks for the morning and were allowed to watch TV once they were all ready.

I know I'll be back here in a few years asking exactly the same kind of questions!

[*Efjay*]

Yep A white board is on my shopping list!
I spoke with is teacher this afternoon, she actually approached me. Started off telling me that she wanted to mention that Evan seemed frightened about something. My heart sank thinking he thought I was goign to beat him silly or something. But she said she spoke with twice over the day & he said something about the bigger kids bossing him around a bit at play time. Somethign about him being told to not play on the big oval where the big kids are because he will get hurt.
She didn't think anything nasty was meant by it but thought Evan may have taken it the wrong way. Which I agree that he often will react badly to that sort direction. He likes to play with the big kids so beging told to go away would have been hard for him.
I told her we have trouble with his behaviour at home which she was surprised by, was also surprised about him not dresing himself etc. She said she will make it apart of the lessons about helping at home & doing their part in the mornings & agreed a chart "reward" system may help.

I asked if she thought there were any signs at school that he may have somethign deeper going on but she didn't seem to think so but also said she will pay closer attention.
I asked if she thought the school counsellor would be of any help seems his issues at home aren't really school related, she didn't seem to think so, said they are too young to really understand at 6 & that they would just talk. But said If I wanted we could set it up.

So I am going to do up a chart, No TV, have things simple in the mornings. CLothes ready etc.


I still feel so helpless, Even coming home he asked for an ice cream & I said No not today. WHY!!! I said that he didn't get treats every day. He asked why he had no money for canteen & I told him he was too naughty this morning. To which he replied that money wasn't a treat!

SO I think from now on the pocket money can stop & some real effort to earn it can be made. He is learning nothing of the value of money obvioulsy with the current system.

I think maybe I will give each morning thing a value & if he does it he can add that to his "bank" but if there is hassle he doesn't get it.

I just hope things improve soon.

[Nadine]

FJ, just wanted to send you some

I also only have a 2 year old so probably can't be of much help, but may I ask what you do for punishment when he treats you this way, or when he behaves this way? Are you stricter then his dad is to him? Could this be why he behaves this way with you and not as much with your hubby?

I think a routine chart is a great idea. Also having clear boundaries is essential. You and your DH need to stick together too. Not saying that he does but if he does, don't let him undermind you (or the other way aroound). Kids pick up on this and will play you against eachother and then it's all over. Umm not sure what else to say. Stay strong and be clear with what is ok and not ok. Don't give mixed signals eg. not eating dinner is ok tonight because I am too tired to argue, but the other night you had to. Today I will put your shoes and socks on because I just can't be bothered dealing with your behaviour etc I know it is hard to stand your ground (it already is with a toddler) and it would be even harder if you have a very stubborn child, but try and be strong. If you are he will come out the other side and you will see a change very very qucikly.

Ok I may have been talking out of my butt here but those are my thoughts and suggestions.

[*Efjay*]

I tend to just yell alot. WHich does nothing. DH & I don't agree on the method of dealing with his behaviour but DH will mostly stand up for me & back me up, his approach is different is all.

I have tired DH's way with no results. DH will also fly of the handle like I do at times but usually his way is to distract him, make a bit of a game of something & then calm him down & tel him to say sorry.

But to me, Evan is learning that he he carries on enough daddy will come in make a fuss & then beg for Evan to say sorry to me. Yeah ok it settles down the current situation but it has no last effects.
I also don't like the idea of begging for him to say sorry.

I have trouble letting go just because Evan stomped in said sorry & stomped out again. Because DH told him too. Thats not a meaningful apology. Why should I accept that?

I have tried different things with no good results so I just fall back into yelling & sending him to his room & occasionally when warranted a smack on the bum.

Nothing works because Evan thinks he is king of the world.

[Bathsheba]

Being a united force with your DH is very important I agree Nadine. I also think balancing the discipline with love and affection is important. My Dh is quite strict but he also is quick to forgive and move on... I think this is extra important with kids because their memory is shorter than ours and if you seem to be grumpy about an issue for too long they fail to link cause and effect IYKWIM.

Regarding the smacking: no lecture here But it could be time to re-think that strategy. At about 7 my DD (when she simply thought she was going to receive a smack from DH) ran out to the front nature strip and yelled: "YOU'RE GOING TO SMACK ME... LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO!!!!" at the top of her lungs. Smart girl hey? your son can comunicate now (many use smacking on children who don't understand anything else)... smacking will only humiliate him and a humilated child will always work against you in some way or another... that is one area where they DO have a longer memory!!! DH and I were never regular smackers despite what she claimed!... but it obviously had a bigger effect on our DD than we knew. Just a suggestion. I wouldn't worry about the pocket money. You shouldn't have to "buy" good behaviour. Our DD never received money for co-operating or doing what simply had to be done like dressing herself... she got it for "extra" effort... like helping me do my chores (like helping at the supermarket, washing the car etc). Just some more thoughts. The biggie (of all my suggestions, I know there are a few now LOL) is to Catch him being Good! And praise him

[Shanti]

What about 'the quiet corner' where he goes when he's naughty? he can only come out when he's calm and in a good mood..... I know that's hard though esp in the mornings when you're trying to get him to school etc... just a suggestion? A room in the house thats really boring and he has to sit there for 5-10mins until he calms down.... kids hate that!

What about The Nanny? Can you get a copy of her book? Know anyone with it? I've watched the shows and i think she's got some great ideas for dealing with tantrums etc in kids....

I liked some of the suggestions that PurpleMamma offered.....

hang in there, you're doing a GREAT job. You'll get thru it.

[*Efjay*]

I have tired naughty mats, corner etc etc unless I physically held him there there is just no point.

I agree that pocket money for tasks that need to be done anyway is silly. Pocket money is DH's thing not mine. Other then the $5 which really is for co-operating they also get $1 for helping clean up, So if I am cleaning toys etc & they help then they get $1 to put in their money tin. I think this is more then enough.
He also gets canteen money & lunch orders ont hose days. I don't mind this as it helps me a little with one less thing to get ready but why should he get money to spend at canteen AND $5 on the weekends AND $1 if he picks up his toys? No wonder he has no idea of the value of money! He has it coming out of his ears!

$5 a weekend is $20 a month, $40 between the two of them. What on earth do 4 & 6 yr olds needs $20 a month for? Its not banked, its spending money when we go to the shop!

I think the pocket money really does need to be reassessed.

Yes, I think the smacking will stop. After his teaching coming up this afternoon & me thinking thats what she was going talk about, that was bad enough. I also worry that he will draw a picture in his diary at school titled "this is mum yelling at me" I would die!

Money wise, i think I will suggest to DH we open bank accounts for them. The $5 can be held till the end of the month & deposited. I don't mind $20 a month going into a bank account. Maybe we can make it a target account that can only be touched at the end of a goal amount. He can work towards a big ticket item at christmas time or something.

One of my biggest fears is having a child that turns into my brother. I watched my brother grow up & turn into a turd. Yes a bit of sibling hate in there but the bloke really is a nut case. But has both Mum & his dad wrapped around his finger. I don't want that to happen to me. But im not sure how to avoid & think I possibly on that path already.

[Phteven]

You could try contacting the Triple P people for advice.
There's nothing wrong in admitting that you're having a hard time coping and you need some support. Most people will respect that it takes strenght to admit that you're struggling and that you're willing to put your pride aside to get the best outcome for your child.

[Nadine]

Bathsheba- Yep totally agree with you that love and affection is important.

Oh and I forgot to say, but Bathsheba did:

The biggie (of all my suggestions, I know there are a few now LOL) is to Catch him being Good! And praise him

Good Luck. You will get there. Just stay strong and don't give up


Oh I just thought of another thing. Everytime he is naughty and/or doesn't listen (after 3 warnings) take a toy away. Start with his favourite one. He gets it back after being good for a certain time (rest of day or a couple of days, or whatever you decide on) if not then another toy gets taken etc etc. If he does get a toy back then give him the one that was last taken. Don't let him see where you stash the toys or he will help himself to them.

[*Efjay*]

Just looking at the Triple P site, I have never heard of them. They isn't anyone close to me. The closest is 40 minutes away in an area I don't really want to go.
I can't see if they have a hot line or something similar that I can call or maybe email for advise.

But I did just remember that the HAwkesbury Communtiy center has a parenting help line. I wonder what age the deal with. I think it may only be for babies. Not sure will have dig out one of the blue books.

I would love some help with his sleeping. I think that may be a big part of his behaviour. We have tried a few things there but the kid just wont go to sleep any earlier then 9.30 regardless.

hmmmm

[Phteven]

FJ, even if the parenting line is only for babies they will be able to refer you on to someone else.
Your GP is always a good first stop - they usually can help you find appropriate help and can refer you on for further assesment so you know what you're dealing with.

[Bathsheba]

Ok... tonight come hell or high water it's lights out for Evan at 8pm. Maybe invest in some talking books... we used to use them with our DD when she was that age.... could only be turned on if the lights were out... night-lite permitted.

What exactly does he do when you say it's bedtime?

[*Efjay*]

There isn't a hassel as such going to bed, its the going to sleep, he just lays there.
The bed time routine is this

8pm, Brush teeth get PJs on etc.
8.30 DH reads them a book in bed
Lights out & DH lays with them telling them a made up story then sneaks out when they are finally asleep.


The boys share a room & bed (their choice). Evan just can't fall asleep any earlier then 9.30 which is why bed time is at 8.30, no real point going in earlier. Plus our lives have made it so bed time happens around 8.30, earlier just wont work as DH often isn't home till 7/7.30 so it just makes it too hard to have them in bed earlier then 8.30