Why do LTTTCers seem to prefer a c/s?

[Kmn]

A real-life we-had-to-wait-for-ages-and-now-we-are-pregnant group (like a Mum's group but to start while still pregnant) would have been helpful.

[Ellie]

What do we need?
I guess I've created my own support network since the BFP. I'm lucky to be living in a smallish town which has a great hospital so I can drop in and see the midwives and I have a great GP who also delivers bubs at the hospital. Then I have my private ob in the next BIG town and they have a midwife there too. So having the shared care and understanding of a team of people has been great. My GP has let me drop in whenver I've felt anxious to check bubs heartbeat with the doppler and just to have a chat. I would have gone mad without that. The biggest help has been having someone on the end of the phone (midwives) who don't make me wait...it's just 'come in...how soon can you be here?' All this support has greatly increased my confidence in both myself and this pregnancy. And I'm having some great conversations wbout my birth choices. I've been shown through the birthing suites at both hospitals with no judgement of expectation. I feel really lucky to have people that have genuinely acknowledge the effect this journey has had on me and providing me with a different level of support to counteract the 'fear' that comes with it. The biggest bonus is that I haven't been forced into making any decisions this early on. I have been given time and space to explore this new world of pregnancy and childbirth.

[butterfly_warrior]

Sushee, I'd love to see an end to damaging information being disseminated by the media.

There are two floating around that are making me seriously angry at the moment - the one about "IVF children" being more aggressive, and this one.

So now the media is making us out to be incompetent and stressed out parents whose children will turn out to be aggressive bullies! How does this help?

Probably a little too angry to be coherent at the moment, but I'm loving Kmn's idea - networking, supporting each other - good start!

BW

[Willow]

I'd like to see more follow up from the clinics (or someone!) for new IVF mums. I wasn't a new mum, but I was carrying a lot of emotional baggage by the time DS arrived.

I remember when DS was a few months old and I got the obligatory call from our clinic to see how the birth went, get all our stats etc for their records. The nurse on the phone asked me 'So, did you end up relaxing and enjoying it in the end?' She remembered how anxious I'd been during my prg. This call came at the height of my anxiety/panic attacks and that call made me feel sooooooo awful. I wanted to cry and tell them that I still wasn't OK, that I was a mess and I was screwing everything up, but I knew no one wanted to hear that. They wanted the happy ending. So I gave it to them.

**ETA: BW - just read that second article and have to say that a LOT of those thoughts ring true for me. Don't have time to do a lengthy post about it, but I actually think there might be some truth to it, whether we like it or not.

[sushee]

I agree about the follow-up services for IVFers, I think that's an area that is distinctly lacking. Not necessarily through the clinic, but even if they referred their patients through to some sort of support group.

Or even have a specialised doula service or something similar to the ABA hotline that 'supports' you either by phone or in person through your anxieties.

ETA - about the reports you mentioned BW, the first is just laughable, but the second has some aspects that actually align with some of the things I've said here in this thread. Though as a media/news piece, it doesn't go in depth enough and instead probably ends up depicting IVF women as incapable, neurotic and unrealistic to the public, instead of exploring their real and complex issues with sensitivity.

[butterfly_warrior]

Sushee, I've seen/read enough to know that there is actually something behind the second article... and enough to make me wonder whether the woman they interviewed really was coping as well as she made out. The frustration came from the fact that they just seemed to want to tell everyone about it, but offer no solutions, no answers, no suggestions. That's where the anger came from. Continue to portray us as "different" and we'll never get anywhere! Offer solutions to make us less different to women who are able to conceive naturally and progress is made. I just have no idea at this stage what those solutions may be. Probably because I really have no idea of what life at that stage will be like.

BW

[Devon]

I like kmn's idea - if fertility clinics could arrange get-togethers of their patients who had recently fallen pg, that would be great.

Or like you said, Sushee - if the clinic could refer you to a support group, that could be really helpful. Especially if it was facilitated by some kind of support worker. I think I would have been interested in that.

I like the doula service idea too, a doula who had some experience of LTTTC or loss herself would be great to talk to.

[happymel]

Same as Willow, i got a call from the clinic just recently (babies are now 6 months), to see if i had a baby... It seems that once they "get you pregnant" they dont want much more to do with you. Its a bit disappointing with the amt of time you spend with them, through blood tests, scans, and heart break. You just get rolled into another number, and they drop you and send you on your way after that first HB check.
I think it would be great to have a support/parent group or even just a pg group, for those who have used IVF/fertility treatment. An IVF pg, i feel, is a very diff journey than a pregnancy that is achieved naturally. I always felt different than my pg friends, i didnt want to but i did. Even though i knew i was so lucky, i did always feel jealous of those around me who fell pregnant at the drop of a hat, even though by this time i was pregnant myself.
Sushee, i would love to think that millions of dollars would help us all, but it still doesnt change attitudes of those around us. How many times i have been asked, are they ivf?? I just wish people could have more of an understanding, and for it to not be so "not normal."
And it would be nice to have a group where we could just chat, discuss aspects of birth choices, feelings and anxieties.

[paradise lost]

Do you know,. the more i read, the more i feel that the experience of the LTTTC woman is that of the "normally conceiving" woman but MANY TIMES MAGNIFIED.

I had wanted a baby for a long time, but was not ttc because XP didn't want to. When i fell it was a complete accident, but i still felt INCREDIBLY guilty for hating morning sickness. I felt under constant duress to "love and welcome" the baby because she was an accident. When she was born and XP and i split i lost EVERYTHING. And i mean EVERYTHING. My job, my home, most of my friends, my social life, my health (having her sent my thyroid down the toilet for good) EVERYTHING. At some point i remember looking at her as i BF her and thinking "this is all i have now" and feeling desolate and simultaneously that i had WANTED this, LONGED for it, and feeling incredibly guilty for that reason.

Motherhood is so difficult in our society. It is a task we must be impeccably good at and are simultaneously utterly dismissed for.

Bx

[butterfly_warrior]

Bec, it is so good to hear that women who conceive the natural way also tend to feel the same sorts of pressures. You have just reduced the "I am an infertile freak" feeling by many, many times.

Could it be something so simple as ALL women need to be more honest about how pregnancy, birth and parenting effects them so that LTers get a better idea that what they are feeling is NORMAL, even though it may be magnified somewhat?

BW

[paradise lost]

I definitely think honesty is something women need, but equally it needs to be balanced honesty (if i'd believed the "honest" horror birth tales i was told when i said i was having a homebirth were a true representation of how my birth would be i'd have had an epidural when the 2 lines appeared, a GA at 6months PG and not let them wake me up until DD was at LEAST 23!!!). I think places like BB have such value because women are talking and nothing is more valuable than knowledge.

I really DO think this society (UK, but also US and AUS) could learn so much from some of the rest of Europe and much of the rest of the world about how to treat mothers. Somehow parenting, rather than being the normal task of a woman or couple (and i DON'T believe infertility should mean this isn't a normal task, though i respect how abnormal the journey must feel), has become this extra-curricular activity which it's ok to do so long as it doesn't interefere with your personality, job, friendships, relationships or moods. It's ridiculous. I envy those Indonesian girls, looking forward to, embracing and celebrating what motherhood means, rather than longing for a false reality, facing a terrible crash and PRETENDING TO BE OK as we do so.

I have a friend in Germany, and last year she was at a wedding. The buffet was supposed to open at something like 3pm, but because of a million bits of the day (big traditional Old-German-Pagan(sort of) wedding) ran on it got to 6ish and my now starving breastfeeding friend ended up going and taking some food before the buffet was opened. A man commented nearby to those near him that it was nice some people were managing to wait for the buffet to open officially and my friend commented loudly back, to the general air around her, that a breastfeeding mother had to think beyond her manners AND her stomach. That man immediately apologised and was embarrassed. Can you imagine in our towns that our proclaimation of hunger due to breastfeeding would meet with such reverence!? In my city most wedding venues would have me BFing in a TOILET! Also in Germany the government provides home helps to pregnant women who need them - my friend had pre-term contractions which were painful but not (luckily) doing too much to her cervix. Her midwife ordered 2 hours rest every day and the government provided a weekly homehelp (who she found herself and gave their details to the local office to have them paid) to allow her to have it. I know another German woman who became incredibly stressed when her baby was injured, and after the baby's recovery was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. She went to stay in a home SPECIFICALLY for "stressed mothers" to have a break before she had a total breakdown. In the UK no such services exist. It's only in the last 5 years women with peurpural psychosis in this city can actually have their babies with them in hospital! Once upon a time women were kept out of sight at home, taking care of families. Then they were welcomed into the public sphere, but who is at home? Don't talk about it. You got the equality you wanted, you DEAL with it. I know, off on a feminist rant, but it makes me angry. In my estimation it takes about 3 years for opportunity to become expectation. Our societies are so verbal about choices, but where are our choices? Birth choices we're not told about, work choices which aren't real (do you want to put your kids in childcare and work, or do you want to be a SAHM in a rented shoebox and live on spam?), lifestyle choices for which there is ALWAYS a price...

Everything in our society is about appearances. Biological functions? Ride a bike, run 10k, swim 3 miles, get pregnant, give birth, breastfeed and MAKE IT LOOK EASY. Careers? Get a degree, get a job, make it a career, balance your family with it and MAKE IT LOOK EASY. Inner peace? Be fit, be thin, look good, look successful, look in control and make it look easy... We don't live behind a facade, we ARE a facade!

I think perhaps only a new revolution of feminism, new feminism, feminism that demands TRUE choices for all women and TRUE support for those decisions. Feminism that unites. Because the media only divides us, relentlessly and imaginatively it injects contention into our every decision and thus we are controlled i suppose. I guess when there are no choices women are united by similarity. With a true range of choice for women to be able to do what they really want to with their lives, we need to be united in honesty, mutual respect and compassion.

Bx

[sushee]

A quote from a WA public policy on substantive equality starts with the phrase, ' If you want to treat me equally, you may have to be prepared to treat me differently'.

I am always reminded of that (excellent, IMO) quote when we talk about feminism (and yes I'm aware I'm going off topic here too) but wanted to comment that I agree with it completely. Equality will only be achieved when circumstance is taken into account, and differences between sexes, races and economic levels are tackled fairly. It isn't about painting everyone with the same brush, and expecting everyone to behave in exactly the same way irregardless of circumstance.

Okay back onto the topic: I have been toying with the idea of speaking to the lady who runs the main doula service here in Perth to see if she knows of any doulas who have experienced LTTTC or m/c, or even wishes to learn more about the unique needs of the women who have.

[Jennifer13]

Bec, it is so good to hear that women who conceive the natural way also tend to feel the same sorts of pressures. You have just reduced the "I am an infertile freak" feeling by many, many times.

Could it be something so simple as ALL women need to be more honest about how pregnancy, birth and parenting effects them so that LTers get a better idea that what they are feeling is NORMAL, even though it may be magnified somewhat?

Oh boy, BW, you don't need to feel 'different', like Bec our DD was a complete accident and because I 'chose' to have her, my DP wouldn't hear a word of complaint then (and still to some extent now) because it was my 'choice' to be a mother. Like he was somehow just carried along in this tidal wave of parenthood with no say!

Can I just say, despite having suffered depression in the past, despite an emotionally very difficult unplanned pg (altho not physically), the birth I did not want, a relationship that's still troubled, etc, etc (I'm sure you can insert your own difficulties into a list like this!) it did not make me an inadequate mother who couldn't cope. Everyone has difficulty coping sometimes for their own reasons. I didn't have trouble coping because I've had depression in the past, I had trouble coping because it's damned hard work (largely unappreciated and not supported enough!). I didn't resent being called upon by my baby when I really just wanted to sleep (and I had no right to complain apparently, since mostly she slept well) because we didn't bond immediately after birth. I resented being woken up because I quite like my sleep and I'm kinda used to it! Plus, I don't operate well when I'm tired.

It IS the same for everyone, but for LTTTCers I would imagine there's that extra layer of guilt (internal and external) that the reality of your dream should always be perfect, and if it's not, is it you?

But it'd be kinda like saying you waited 25 years to meet your husband and you have no right to complain when he annoys the ***** out of you for behaving in what might be a completely normal way for him/a man, but annoying nonetheless!

[nic]

The clinic we went through was QFG, and they have a committee called "Friends of QFG" you get quarterly newsletters, with notices of meet ups for various outings (last newsletter I still have is from FEB, and it has on the front, dates for...a cuppa and a chat, play and a chat, a guys get together for men only, a yet to succeed breakfast for ladies only.
They request that babies and children are not taken along to the activites unless it is the play and chat outing.
They have email addressess in the newsletter, so you can contact other people, and a country contact section for us 'country girls' as well.

Is this something unique to QFG or do other clinics have something similiar operating?
Unfornately because we live so far from the clinic, I was unable to go to any of the events, but had I lived closer, I would have certainly taken advantage of them.

Nic

[butterfly_warrior]

Nic, I think it's pretty unique to QFG, I've not heard of anything similar anywhere, which is a real shame. It sounds absolutely fantastic and something that is needed in many other places.

BW

[briggsy's girl]

monash have similar for their ivf girls but the newsletter is all about cycling. meet ups are few and far between. my paid membership expires next month so i wont renew

[Kmn]

I have stayed in contact with the lovely clinic staff - had lunch with them a week before bub was born, and he has been back to meet those who made him. We'll keep on visiting every so often - they like to see "their" babies!

[scooby]

Hi
I think all those suggestions are great, i would also love some kind of education program for family and friends as there is that "well now your pregnant, get on with it attitude" My mum who has been pretty good through the whole thing really surprised me yesterday as i was saying how it was going to be such a shock to the system again getting up and down all night for feeds and she was almost annoyed with me saying something that equated to just be happy your pregnant! I think they truly need to have a firm understanding how we feel, why sometimes we want to talk other times its please can we talk about something else,, the trials of many different things e.g. family events, secondary infertility etc.