I have raised kids alone with an ex who didnt pay childsuport and caused alot of violence an trauma. as a result some of my children have had problems in the past, and caused me hell. 1 tried to turn a few of my children and friends against me a few years ago because he was angry that i needed him to leave home for the peace of the family. The family blew up at the time after always working together in challenges and they made my life such hell. After apologising the damage is still done and some of the lies they said about me from their own troubleness has turned people against me and made me cringe in teh community taht i grew up in have lived in for decades and always had such a good name which i worked hard for and deserved. Its effected me and my life greatly. I've heard of stories of similar happening ot others and the huge toll it took on every aspect of their life and emotions and relationships.
one child ws very troubled in the past and i spent years helping her till she was ok, helping her with anything that came up, self esteem, sleep, friends, work, hobbies, joy, boyfriend etc etc.
how she is doing well but this year she misinterpreted my protecting a sibling as being her enemy which i wasnt i didnt say anything rough or cruel but she was obviously troubled so she took it that way and didnt even talk to me before taking all sorts of action. i was so distraught i wanted to die, till i understood why she had done it that she had misinterpreted my needing to protect a sibling as being her enemy when i wasnt at all. it was hell for me what she put me through when i had had such a challenging year, a child very sick in hospital and other thigns.
now she is going to get engaged and will probably reneg on all her actions and want me to come
i really dont want to i dont want to go near anyone who is so troubled that they can make my life such hell. i just need peace after decades of heavy challenges.
but if i dont go it will perpetuate her image of me and make me look bad that she was angry with me etc etc. people dont see the truth they just see that probably i must be terrible when thats not the case.
i dont want to go but it will just perpatuate lies and a bad image of me if i dont. would you go ?
family rifts are painful and its like soemthing happens and its like written in stone and for years people can stay away form each other. she hasnt learnt to communicate, and find ways to get on. she almost did the same ot her partner who she is getting engageed to she almost cut off from him totaly instead of communicating with him about normal things, just before she did that to me.
do i want a family rift. why am i always the one giving and then kicked in the face and put through hell and then i come back so easily. i need my peace decades later.
a few eyars ago when my son tried to make trouble people just beleived any lie he said so easily. his apologising to me but not fixing the bad name he caused me which i didnt deserve has caused me much suffering. if i dont go it will just perpetuate lies and make me look bad
would you go ?
Last edited by sue1386; January 6th, 2010 at 05:52 AM.
I can feel your pain in your words - I am sorry you are feeling so raw & unsure.
I have learned in life that we can't please everyone. However when you kindly and with conviction live with authenticity things have a way of being okay.
I hear that as you see it your children have been the cause of a lack of respect for you in the town your live.
I am not sure if perhaps you are perceiving the "bad name" to be worse than what it is. I know for me I don't make judgements. I meet someone and I take it at face value. I think most people are like that. Yes, mud sticks - but as I see it you can choose to believe that people are judging you - or you can choose to hold your head up high and live a good life.
I reckon the latter would make you happier than the former.
As for the engagement. I would definitely go - wish her well, give her love and good wishes within your own thought out boundaries.
It depends if you want a relationship with her or not - not about what other may or may not think of you if you don't go.
If you would rather keep your distance and let the relationship stay where it is at the moment, then don't go. Just be aware that of course there will be ramifications - missing your daughter's engagement party is a pretty big thing to miss.
No-one can tell you what the RIGHT thing to do is. No-one, other than you, knows the history so as I said, it really depends on whether you want a relationship with her or not at the moment.
At the end of the day, you have to trust your own judgement and hang everyone else's two cents.
I agree with the previous posters, without being in your shoes its impossible for us to tell you what to do. I have an 18 yr old but still have no idea of the complexities of your realtionships with your older kids, I do know it can be VERY difficult though!!
I guess off the top of my head I'd say go, only that if you don't develop a better relationship with her in the future then so what you wasted an evening but if you do form a better relationship in the future the fact that you didn't go to her engagement party could be a thorn forever IYKWIM??
It sounds like you've been through a really rough time.
I would definitely go. It's your daughter's engagement. In years to come you won't regret going, but you might regret *not* going after your wounds heal. Not going will contribute further to the rift, and cause more pain, resentment, and anger to sort through before the rift can be healed.
I agree with Inanna - we choose how we want to feel about things. Perhaps you would find it helpful to choose another response to the hurtful events that have occured between yourself and your child(ren). I would hold my head up high and go. You have had pain in your relationship with her, but that is a separate issue that can be dealt with. It doesn't need to cloud an important and exciting time in your daughter's life by having her mother missing from her engagement celebration.
You said "she hasnt learnt to communicate, and find ways to get on" - so dig down deep and model it for her in this situation.
My own Mother NEVER came to my first engagement when i was 19 ... we didn't get along, and it truly didn't bother me that she wasn't there ... BUT to be honest it would have felt nice even for a moment if she DID come, and it honestly wouldn't have bothered me as me at the time even being 19 i would have understood it took courage for her to come if she did and for that it would have bought me some level of happiness ... After all she is my one & only Mum, regardless if i like her or not !!
Sue as a grown woman yourself you know how life can be so darn short and to think about how important an engagement can be but remember it's not quite a Wedding ... so if you ** don't go ** to this engagement i think you would have set in stone that you would never be invited to the Wedding, with that thought can you ask yourself if you can live knowing that ... If you feel that you can't or even take that chance then i think you have answered your question which is TO GO !!
Like someone else before mentioned you don't have to be there all night and then at least you can live with knowing you did your best putting everything else aside that has happened between you both ... I have to say i would look at you like one fab Mum for plucking up the courage to go and ' if ' it all turns haywire at the engagement you then need to DO what's best for you !!
SOMETIMES on forums the issue can be misunderstood or temperamental people with their own issues write strange stuff. but you all really understood the issue and responded so compassionately, with understanding, and wise issues to raise. I am so so grateful to each one of you.
You all raise fabulous helpful points
Inanna, its surprising how many of us will just beleive gossip without questioning it. eg i was once told by an exhusband of someone i knew that his ex wouldnt let him see the baby etc, and i just beleived it and didnt think of questioning it, later i realised it totally wasnt true and the truth came out of how troubled he actually was. it is shocking upstting and surprising how easily people will beleive things and not hear the truth.
what i went through reminds me a bit even though its a different story, of the story of lindy chamberlain and what a witchhunt was made of her when she was actually the one suffering and not the cause of her babies dissapearance by a dingo. police poeple everyone went into a frenzy and worked against her and didnt listen to the truth. She was treated as guilty before a hearing and everyone was prejudiced and worked against her based on a frenzied witch hunt type of mentality not on the truth. it took years for her to get out of jail and what hell it must have caused her the trauma of what she went through and the bad name caused to her for years. My situation is differnt but has some similarities to that and even though my son who was on drugs and troubled at the time has apologised to me, he has not fixed the huge damage he caused to my good name and there is alot of suffering to me from that daily in the town i live in.
re this daughter We actually got on very well, like best friends
besides 3 years ago when a troubled brother convinced her at a time she was sick and disoriented, to go against me, with huge and terrible effects on my whole life and besides since september when she misinterpreted my protective behaviour on a sibling as being her enemy when i hadnt said anything cruel or nasty i was simply protecting a sibling who was in a terrible crisis and state.But her reaction showed how troubled she was that she didnt communicate which could have fixed it up quickly, ( similar to what she almsot did to her boyfriend just a bit before this happened but i kept getting her to communicate with him as i could see it was a normal fixable situation ) but she went and did a whole series of very serious things which made my life hell, when simply chatting to me would have easily cleared up her overreacting to a mistaken misperception of my protective behaviour towards her sibling.
I've had 3decades of hell from my troubled ex and my troubled kids as a result of my troubled ex. I need some peace. I need to keep away from people whoare so roubled that they can reak so much havok and hell and can be so dangerous because of misreading one experienceafter years of being close and of me working my guts out for her day in day out in so many needs.
yes its tough so i appreciate your wise words which i beleive are wise and helpful and i knew somehow it would be better to go but the emotions make it very very very hard to do so .particularly at this point in time.
the oprah show had once a story about a family and a book and movie called' we were the malvenies ' ( unsure of spelling) it was similar in the way of showing how together they were till a huge crisis happened that tore the family apart and reaked havoc and for years the family were not the same again. years later they come together and take a family photo . i dont remember more but its similar in that we worked togehter through so much so so much trauma for years, till a few years ago somehow it went haywire and i was the one who was there day and night fighting for them, but troubled teens will make their parents or parent life hell and thats what happened and it was horrible.
yes i'm sure i feel the bad name more than what it is, but thats the pain of these situations that anyone who experiences them goes through. they dont know who thinks badly of them, it makes for so much suffering daily. i just find i try to build a new life with others or live a very solitary life till i find a way to build a new life after decades of living in this community. i dont feel comfortable mixing in the community i grew up in for decades. it just reminds me of too much trauma.
to keep my equilibrium it is best to stay away from too emotionally charged situations and just have peace. but this one thank you for encouragement i'll see what i can do to be there and to try to feel stable as it will be very hard for me.
Mrs mac i also have an 18 year old who is not as complex as the others although he is fragile too as a result of trauma caused by my ex or by his troubled siblings. Yes it can be hard to understand the hell that very troubled or drug addicted children can cause , when one has had a child similar age with more normalacy.
skeetaboat, re modelling for her good relationships and stable behaviour and communication
my mother was a very difficult woman still is,
yet her mother was like the angel of the world , the most wonderful person ever. Her mother kept beging treated so badly by my mum, and yet she would forgive and be back helping her with her grandkids, ( me) in a second.
I DONT want to be like my grandmother was the most special person ever, that i am traumat6ised and abused so so so much, and yet in a heartbeat i come back immediately to help and love. i dont want to be that. my health and heart cant take that. and yet i found i have done exactly that because i realise that they are troubled, and i help and support when i can. They dont seem to face or realise or understand the incrdible pain and very extreme horror and destruction that they cause me. I wont elaborate but its been very very very serious hell.
its like a story on dr phil when a girl trumped up a story about her headmaster.
it totally ruined his life, his work prospects,
his good name
his friendships
his life became a living daily nightmare
a few years later, like my son did, she apologised.
but the damage had been done.
in his case dr phil showed his story and said how people should support him, and hire him, that he is a good man and didnt deserve the bad name she caused him.
but dr phil has not done that for me and there are still people perpetuating the lies my troubled son or sons made a few years ago , and it even now hurts my kids who at the time mistakenly helped my troubled sons. 6 months ago y someone said somethign about me, to someone else that got back to my daughter and she was crying her eyes out as it was so opposite to the truth. But none of my kids have done anything to try to fix these lies they created and the hell i have to live through daily as a result. I dont have dr phil to come at announce the truth.
anotehr time dr phil told a son' did your mother have to hire and pay thousands for a lawyer, solicitor, attorney, to try to get you out of ' HER house?! its HER house. If i wanted you out of my house buddy, your butt would be out on the curb.
But again i didnt have dr phil to say that to my sons and i had a town who didnt realise what hell i was going through and beleived the lies of troubled sons and 3 years later it still causes me hell constantly. i wanted to kill myself 2 days agaon after emotions raised from missing out on a job because it was being offered from a brother of someone who perpetuates the lies about me and doesnt realie what went on and never even talked to me about it all. She was my best friend for years and then suddenly in the crisis broke off from me and never even communicated with me so that i dont even know what she is beleiving or why she broke off. its been so so so tough. they aplogised but they never did anything to fix the damage they have caused me. and some of my friends my kids have ' stolen' as their best friends, while those poeple no longer are my friends. that is so painful to me after years of daily working my guts out for very troubled kids under very difficult circumstances. i was the one there fighting for their every need, so if they will turn their anger against someone its me, i was there. its so painful for me. a loss of good name underserved is so so painful.
Thanks so much again
Sue.
Last edited by sue1386; January 6th, 2010 at 06:12 AM.
hi Sue, I don't have time for a lengthy reply right now, but I wonder if you'd benefit from some narrative counselling? It helps us to see event in our life from different angles, and rewrite the story of events so that they don't cause us so much pain. From your writing it sounds like there are phrases and concepts that are strongly held in your mind that are causing much pain & misery. Narrative counselling can help to unpack those words, phrases and interpretation of events and rebadge, rename and rewrite the story.
Counselling might also help you come to a place where you can forgive your son for the lies he told. It might seem impossible right now, but forgiveness is much better for your soul than bitterness, and a goal worth working towards. That's not to say it's easy, though. It takes a lot of strength and soul searching to forgive, but you'll be a happier and healthier person for it.
Re: being like your grandmother, by having healthy boundaries with your children, you can avoid that. Eg 'I will go to your engagement party but I will not pay for it' or 'I will support you as a parent but I am only available to babysit on Thursdays and Saturdays', that kind of thing. Also, remember that unconditional love allows us to give without expecting anything in return. Maybe this is what your grandmother was doing? So while in your eyes she was used and abused, in her own eyes she was just loving her daughter unconditionally, not expecting anything in return. When we can love unconditionally, we love the person, but we also release them of expectations. That doesn't mean allowing ourselves to be walked all over, it just means we are giving of ourselves, our time, our love, our support, without hope or agenda. To avoid over-giving in the name of unconditional love, you need to really sit down and think about what your boundaries are. What are you willing to give your children without any conditions attached?
It sounds like your situation is complex and very tough, so it's hard to respond well without knowing the full details. Nevertheless, every difficult situation is an opportunity for emotional growth. Just trying to point out some areas of potential growth. We can't change past events or control other people's behaviour, but we can choose how we repond to events and people, and the effect we allow those events and people to have on us. In the end, your happiness, even in a difficult situation, is up to you and what you choose to do.
My only other thought is, counselling will also help you process your thoughts about your damaged reputation, and assess how much of it is reality, and how much of it is your perception of other peoples thoughts and behaviour (sometimes we make up or magnify what other people think about us based on our own self talk). If after you go through that process, you realise that people actually do think bad things about you and behave dishonourably towards you, then you can choose to rebuild the relationship, or write them off as judgmental and not worth your efforts. If after going through that process you can't ignore it or rebuild your relationships with them, maybe then it would be worth considering moving and starting anew.
I hope something in there is useful and/or helpful. ((Hugs))
and i spent years doing all types of personal growth. so i am aware of all you say and i do have someone who sometimes works with me and yes spins things in a positive way or gives me better ways of looking at things. its a continuous work that never stops i agree.
At the same time
right now its time for me to not always put on hold my own life and needs for a bunch of kids and what they have created in my life. i have had my life on hold for 30 years while i raised them and was dragged through their issues.
for 3 decades i chased up the issues of them and of mine that they caused me
now its time to get to things that were on hold till then
like peace and quiet without always having extra appoitments which can be more of a stress than help at times
fun
work this is a huge priority for me years later
partners
friends
my own life
not always emotional things and dramas connected with my kids
not always working on self and issues
but also putting them aside and building my own life that was on hold for decades while i raised a bunch of high need kids.
my social life my work life my love life was on hold for way too long while i cared for them and got all types of emotional work to forgive understand grow etc. and its a lifelong task i know but its not my priority right now i have other priorities like keeping a roof on my head and doing other peaceful things for my life.
counselling is bloody draining and not always helpful enough. soemtimes its time for other things.
right now what i find is getting on with my life and seeing help when an issue comes up helps me best.
counsellors wouldnt even necesarily beleive what i have to say. i dont need all that.
i find it works for me better to put it aside, know i didnt deserve it and forcus on building what i need now 30 years later.
i will ask here and there someone helpful, when an issue comes up and i have some professionals who use various techniques i can try at times,
but i will no longer give my life for regular counselling and issues . i t sounds so elevated to always choose counselling as the answer, but sometimes its just not whats most helpful 30 years later after lots of personal growth and techniques.
i did so much for decades
it helped possibly, the most help came when my kids moved out , some at least
all the money and time i spent on my health emotional or physical didnt even help much, the thing that helped most was them moving out and me having a more humane workload.
personal growth took up hours of my time, i still am interested in it but it is not my life or priority
and now i find it much better to work earn think about other things not just mothering and the hell they put me thorugh,
and get on with what i can do today and not go over and over the issues which a counsellor may or may not be able to help me with.
been there done that for years. 3o years later its time for something differnt and i find that works much better fo rme.
but the point is taken. i think about it sometimes but as i said been there done alot probably it helped but not enough and i find it best to just get on with things.
if you have something specific to point out of my letter and reframe it or whatever you do i would love that. i am all for personal growth. but my life has been saturated with issues and personal growth and its tiem for me to work, earn an income, bring in new people to my life, do other things besdies kids kids kids and the issues they bring and emotional issues and personal growth.
work can be very soothing and that is one focus at present
peace to care for kids without extra counselling sessions or appointments which are more tiring than helpful at present is more helpful for me at present. thats what i find for myself at least.
i love listening ot the cd of 'the secret' i find that helps me. focusing on gratitude and good things
i am interested in different personal growth things
and i have sometimes sessions with someone when issues come up and she is helpful more than i found others, but i will not make anything regular at a timeslot when i have other huge priorities now that are better for me 30 years later and that have been pushed aside for 30 years.
Thanks
Sue.
Last edited by sue1386; January 6th, 2010 at 02:57 PM.
It is hard to comment as we don't know exctly what your history is. But when you first held your baby girl in your arms could you imagine not going to her engagement party years down the track.
I would go as I can't imagine a few hours at a party could cause that much damage but I can imagine not going could cause a lot of damage.
You said you and your daughter used to be best friend sbut now things have changed, they could change back the otherway again.
wow Sue. After reading that I can see why you want to distance yourself. I think you do deserve some peace, I would like to be left alone for awhile after all that too.
Your kids are older now, they can look after themselves. It must be awful knowing that going to that party will very likely open you up to another round of dramas and being treated badly.
Yeah they are your children.....but I don't think there is anything in the laws of parenting that say you have to be treated like a doormat for the rest of you life because you are a parent.
Sue it sounds like you just need a break above all else. It's no mean feat raising several troubled children on your own. You deserve a medal.
Counselling can be good if you're at a place where you want to do all that and sort through your thoughts and feelings, but I totally hear you - it's hard work and appointments are a hassle. You can certainly use counselling principles by yourself if you're familiar with them and have the time and energy.
Take all the rest and time for yourself that you need. I would still go to the engagement but ultimately it's up to you.
ETA: sometimes practical (rather than pyschological) changes to your situation make a world of difference, as you discovered when your children moved out. Doing some things that you've wanted to do but haven't been able to for YEARS might help you feel better about everything.
Last edited by skeetaboat; January 6th, 2010 at 02:13 PM.
when my kids have hurt me, i thought about if i would ever have contact again,
but when the moment came to reconnect i didnt think twice. like my grandmother did as i mentioned.
Thanks so so much for all your understanding and support. that is very very special.
i have 3 relatively younger children i still do need to care for and focus on, including 2 doing vce this year and next year, and oen of whom was very sick in 09. plus a daughter who had a baby at young age and is single, who i dont want to leave to feel alone too, i try to help her, take and pay for her shopping, for groceries, clothes, toys, clothes for baby, dvds when she is lonely, and keeping a connection and watch on her. She has also been very hurtful when she was troubled last year, but again i knew she was very troubled at the time so like my grandmother did, when she needed me and was more stable, i still forgave immediately and came back to help. i do need to minimise older hurtful children and situations that are draining troubled or hurtful.
i guess if i'm invited i'll go to the engagement. it will be difficult. i need a break from anyone or anything too troubled at present. working and caring for kids and recovering from it all is enough.
there is a different situation a bit similar to whether i should or shouldnt go to the engaement
my brother invites us once a year or so and i dont go as i raised a bunch of kids on my own for decades under challenging situations, and he lived not too far away , had a very blessed life and didnt show any understanding or generosity to our needs. i find that too painful. how alone i have felt for decades and its salt to a wound to have a brother, but who doesnt think about us or help. i try to forgive, understand, give explanations, but it doesnt mean i want to go to his home, and when i have its made me an emotional mess for days after. its just too painful for me what it raises.
and skeetaboat, at times when i knew i deserved 10 medals not just one like you mentioned, i was treated so badly. i beleive there are sometimes deeper reasons why things happen, past lives, who knows. i find it best to put it aside and keep going, or it is too timeconsuming and upsetting and leads nowhere . sometimes there arent answers in some traumas and its just best to try to stay away and move on to the present .
i could ahve written a book in the past on forgiveness, boundaries, how to not let behaviour of others upset us, i have that much self growth notes over the years as i dealt with so much. its been a constant theme especially in the last 13 years of my life. and yet i still need reminders about walking with grace, living our truth quietly and forgetting about others opinions or mistakes, that what others think is none of my business and doesnt count!
when i walk in the street i often put sunglasses to put a bit of protection and less eyecontact between myself and otehrs who have caused me pain or remind me of pain. it makes it a bit less painful for me. its not a good way to live.
thanks all of you so much. people dont always show they understand but you all really did. thats been another issue that has isolated me that i didnt feel others understood all these years, my exhaustion, the crisis i was dealing with, the needs of a large family and a sole parent. that isolated me alot finding that others didnt seem to understand, though of course i also have those around me who do .thanks so much and nice to hear from you again lulu.
Last edited by sue1386; January 6th, 2010 at 03:13 PM.
Sue ... hope we have all helped in our own way, ... Do you feel better about what decision to make now whether to go or not ? or do you think you need some more time (so sorry if i may have overlooked an answer you might have already mentioned after my last post) ... Sue, sounds like you have such wonderful motivation in helping yourself getting through maybe not all but some or most of what you have been through ... You are one special lady who needs to make life special for YOU too
************* Sue if i had a gold medal i would give it to you but i don't so instead here is a big warm hug from me to you xoxoxox
Initially i read your post and i got so angry.
It is due to my issues with my mother, who puts on a woe is me act, but is really being a manipulative cow. She finds great pleasure in controlling my siblings and turning us against one another, its like she thinks she is the queen bee and we are her workers.
Sorry i read your post right after another argument with her!! She always manages to put words in our mouths and turn things around and use it against us later.
Anyway, i had to re read your letter and not take it to heart (obviously you aren't my mother lol) and i thought i would give you a perspective from a child of a broken / messed up family.
You are right, your daughter did take you protecting the other sibling to heart, i can probably guess that she was feeling fragile and in depserate need of reassurance from her mother and she didn't get what she wanted so she acted the way she did. (IMO only i obviously don't know the whole situation)
However, i think you should go to her engagement. If you don't, you will give her more excuses to make up stories, more excuses to feel hurt and betrayed and more excuses to dislike you in her mind.
You need to go to the engagement, wish them all the best and let her go.
When she goes on in life, gets married etc, all you can do is be there for support.
Even if you are standing quietly in the wings.
One day when she becomes a mother, she will realise all you have done for her and why you do the things the way you do. Because she is apart of you, and you unconditionally love her. That is your downfall, but it is also the most uplifting thing in the world. A mothers love.
Things will work out for you. People will come to realise your not such a bad person. Besides, if they are going to listen to rumours, why would you want them as friends anyway.
Sorry if i just gabbled on and didn't really help, but i hope i did a little
you know from my kids point of view there would be times that they would have just gotten weary of our situation and the stress
and me expressing it to anyone
tired, embarrassed.
recently 2 of my children had court situations. one an ex was trying to meddle with the child he never wanted.
and another was an ex girlfriend being charged for stealing money from my son
they are finding out how stressful court is
and yet my ex dragged me through court for years
i supported them so so so so so much and still do in all these situations, typing, helping them with hints, listening, giving soothing words and uplifting words, and wise words.
i was so alone through so much so i dont want them to suffer the terrible pain of that.
yes if i would hav emet someone and talked to them on the way back from court aobut the day i'd just had they would have felt embarrassed.
people who spread lies oculd use the word manipulate when in fact there is no manipulation but a true situatiohn of need
people get sick of situations of need and start to question them or accuse when there may be no need for that at all.
thats what happened in my situation and i saw it happen now to my daughter that soon after she became a single young mum, people wondered if she really needs help when she asks for it and started to accuse her of being manipulative when the real truth was so so painfully different.
yes i hve to learn not to care about others pain
i am sensitive and most of my family are so its hard work for us to try to not care
one of my children though is totally differnt, nothing bothers her and she is so lucky. she can just laugh off everything.
i have told friends of mine though that if i die of a heart attack from so much pressure on me, financial, emotional, heart break , hurt, that i DO want my kids and people around me to be told of the horrible impact they had on me and the repercussions their behaviour caused on my daily life.
Re the engagement thanks. one step at a time. so far she isnt engaged yet, she needs to find a ring, and she has not invited me yet.
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should i go to her engagement?
... After all she is my one & only Mum, regardless if i like her or not !!
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