Friends who use CIO methods - do you say anything.

[Santosha]

All in all, I'm pretty blessed with my Mother's group. They're a lovely bunch of women and have been very supportive of eachother over the last 8 months. Quite a few of them have done sleep training, have started solids earlier than I do, don't do BLS and all babies but mine sleep in their own rooms in cots. Although I've had some slightly incredulous looks sometimes, I've never felt judged for my parenting decisions... I just think perhaps that they think I'm a bit soft! I respect the choices that they've made and appreciate that they respect mine. Indeed, I think that I would be doing many things they are if it weren't for BB and the wonderful education i have been given here about Gentle Parenting methods. When you have no idea what you're doing, you sometimes feel safest to just go with the 'status quo' and that's what these gals do. In so many ways I feel very grateful that I have found an alternative to what 'experts' such as Tizzy Hall and some MCHN's suggest is 'best' for our babies.

BUT. Yesterday at Mother's grp the Mum who was hosting put her little guy to bed when he was getting tired and grizzly. She turned on the monitor and came back out. He started to cry immediately and she just said 'oh he usually has a bit of a sook for a few minutes and then he goes to sleep'. 5 mins later the crying is just escalating and I'm really starting to feel uncomfortable. The Mum just says 'woah, he's really cracking it today' and keeps on chatting to us. This poor little guy just screamed and screamed to the point that you could head him gagging and coughing. It was heartbreaking and it took all my nerve to not just run in there and pick him up myself. It think it took 15 to 20 mins before his Mum finally said 'well, it looks like he's not going to have an afternoon nap then' and went and got him. He was still gasping and hiccuping when she brought him out and then the usually cheerful little 9 month old just sat there and clung to his Mum looking stunned and spent for the next 30 mins or so. It was so sad and I ended up feeling so upset myself - so angry and sad for that beautiful little boy that he has to go through that and that his Mum has been so misinformed that 'that's what you have to do to teach them to sleep'.

I don't want to judge this woman and i don't want to cause any conflict or discomfort in my Mother's grp. I would hate to lose it as a support and I would hate for others to feel that it is a place where their parenting choices are questioned. But all night I just kept coming back to the sound of that screaming and kept thinking that maybe if she knew something different then she wouldn't do this. I'm almost tempted to send her some articles from BB or loan her 'The Science of Parenting' just so she has an opportunity to at least be exposed to the alternative view. This Mum feeds her little guy all organic, she sings to him and plays with him and avoids all that might be harmful to him in other ways. Part of me thinks that she would be horrified if she knew how harmful it can be to let her little boy experience so much distress and feelings of abandonment.

Sorry... this is turning into a serious vent. Feels good to get it out though.

So do you say anything to those close to you about their parenting choices? Do you attempt to disseminate info on Gentle Parenting? Would you say something to my friend?

[Ginger]

Geez, this is such a hard one you know? i've faced this so many times with friends and tbh, i've never had the guts to say anything, basically because i don't want people to think i'm judging them.
i got to the point whre i was too embarassed to invite my MG over to my house because i didn't want them all to see the way i put my sons to sleep (Bfed to sleep, everytime) or where my sons actually sleep,(in MY room/bed) for that matter. i just got to the point where i only had the really close, hide nothing, kinda rel/ships with a couple of other mums who are exactly the same as me when it comes to parenting. the other mums i just tend to meet at playcentres/parks- which is kind of sad, i know.
sorry for my rambling, i guess my point is.....how close do you feel your rel/ship is with this mum? do you think you would offend /upset her? do you think she would feel judged? do you know if she is following any type of sleep book, like a tizzy hall etc.?

[*TripleJ*]

ok with me it was a slightly different situation coz it was my niece her mother put her to bed and all she did was scream i said do u want me to go in there and she said nah she needs to go to sleep and hour later yes i said an hour i went in there i just could not listen to it but i will say she was a bit older than 9 months and her mum was 16 but she is a lot better with her now i know its no excuse but yeah sorry to waffle on but i wouldnt be able to sit there and listen to it i have done it with Jamie coz i was just really frustrated and tired and in no way was he screaming like that

but yeah i wouldnt be able to bite my tongue at all maybe u could have a word to her in private maybe but im not sure wat it would achieve

[onthefly]

It's a tough one. I think it's something you discuss if it comes up, you know. This is what we do.. I read this interesting thing... and that's why...
Oh, I read this great book... it's really helped me. Or something like that maybe? Some people will take it for what it is, but some will get defensive and take it as a personal attack. I guess you just have to judge your audience.

As for that mother in your MG. I wonder, perhaps she only waited so long because people were there. Maybe she wouldn't normally have left him so long, but she was worried about being judged as too soft, or whatever. I think we all worry overly about what others might think. It's a shame, isn't it?

[Astrid]

Tough one. I know I struggle to listen to it when it has happened around me. I think it depends on the mum, I have been attacked in the past for my parenting from some mg mums, so for those type I would say something. If the person is genuinely nice, it might be something I casually bring up at a later date. If DH is around, well, he just tells them straight exactly what he thinks of it.

[Dansta]

i've said to my MG in the past "a baby is for cuddleing, not for crying" all bar one other mum at my MG do CIO, two of them happily put their bubs in other bubs cots for a "sleep" one cried - as the bub you talked about it for about half an hour i was on the verge of tears and just rocked and cuddled my DS to sleep. the mothers at my MG know that in my house there is no CIO, they know i do baby led (bar solids due to DS's bad reflux ) they also know i co-sleep with my DS. i dont "hide" it im proud. my son is one of two babies who will sleep in arms/on their own with out tears, DS knows when he's tired and sleeps. as for shareing the books/articals go for it. i have. the worst she can do is say "no thanks"

[AliBaby]

I dont think that you can say anything.

Unfortunately some people will do things the way that they want. YOu could point her in the direction of BB or other online forums for some great tips on sleeping, etc but you would have to do it a gentle way so that she doesnt feel that you think there is a problem.

I think that if you were to come across even concerned then she could get all defensive and it cause a rift in mothers grp. I would just make a casual statement like I found this great online forum site where I get so many great tips from mums and professionals about sleep, feeding, and all the other things that go on with parenting.

for you

[sneakysparkle]

I have sent articles and books to friends before for the same reason you mentioned - I would hate for them to one day say to me "why didn't you tell me!!"
But its really hard isn't it good luck!

[sloane]

whether i'd say anything would depend very much on the relationship i had with that particular friend.

for the most part though, i probably wouldn't bring it up & if i did, it wouldn't be then & there, if that makes sense?

i believe in gentle methods & that's what we use and i expect other people to respect our choice. i feel then, that if others choose to do things differently, then that is their perogative. i would take an opportunity, if it arose, to explain why we choose gentle methods and i would always hope that people had educated themselves on their parenting methods/choices before deciding on them. people do need to do what works for them & i don't expect gentle parenting to be everyone's preference even if i do think it's the better way.

[blackduckies]

I don't think you should say anything either..... just as your would'nt like to be told your methods were wrong they are going to feel confronted if you question their methods, only way would be if advice was asked for eg: I am having loads of trouble getting DS to sleep in his cot anyone got any ideas??? Then maybe you point the person in BB direction etc. I say if the disscusion goes that way... (often it does cause DD is very happy ,relaxed rarely cries etc and they want to know how we do it)we decided to do what ever works at the time and gentle parenting or a more relaxed approach I feel has made DD a more relaxed happy baby, I think cause she knows we will be there when she needs us?? Sometimes people ask more..other times they just say oh thats not for us we like routine...then you have to respect there ideas and wishes.

[JBF]

Hi, I am not sure if this is a private thread or not but I just want to ask a completely ignorant question. What does CIO stand for?

[sloane]

jbf - it stands for 'cry it out'

and i hope it's not private cos i've just barged in with my 2 cents!

[misty]

I don't think you have the right to say anything.

I have on occaision done the same thing as that woman with my kids (albeit no-one was there to judge me). Each circumstance is different and we all make different parenting choices. If anyone chose to comment on a single aspect of my parenting based on an isolated (or even recurrent) incident, I wouldn't take it very well.

My firstborn had reflux and was an EXTREMELY unhappy baby for the first 5 months, the only way she would fall asleep was after 30min -1hr of screaming (regardless of if I was there or not). After 6 months her reflux got better, she got happier, but she would still never go to sleep until after she had a good long scream, not until she was over one. I couldn't stay in the same room as her, I was emtionally worn out, and it would just prolong the screaming/crying. I never discussed this with my mothers group or any friends, because I didn't want to hear them tell me their opinion.

My DS1 is still a terrible sleeper, but the CIO method never worked for him - so I have never done it with him.

My DS2 is a brilliant sleeper (so far - touch wood).

The only reasonI am telling you this is to let you know that you may not know the "whole" story, or even if you do, unless ahe broached the subject with you, you have no business talking to her about it, or telling her what she should orr should not be doing when raising her kids.

[Santosha]

Thanks girls. I don't think I will say anything as I really don't want to cause a rift and know I would probably hate it if someone did that too directly to me. However I might be a bit more vocal in general about the choices I'm making and WHY. Until now I've just said 'I rock her to sleep' or 'she often sleeps in our bed' but I haven't really explained that there's some good research and theory behind my approach. I might do what Marcellus suggested and just say 'Oh I've been reading such a great book... it really helped' etc. so at least it gives the others the opportunity to know that such info/ideas are out there without telling them that they 'should' take on these strategies.

Just makes me so sad that so many dedicated, educated, competent Mums are still told that this is the only way and often that it's actually good for their child - eg. 'he needs you to teach him how to sleep... this is how you do it'. And, as a consequence, so many babies have to experience this stress. I know some parents choose to do this when fully informed of all the options because of their own circumstances and preferences and I want to be clear... I respect that.
Thanks again for your input.

Out of interest... who HAS said something about someone else's parenting? Why? How did the other person take it?

[wysiwyg]

My MG sounds alot like yours.

Is a really difficult one - I tend to assume because I am the sort of person that researches everything that other people have done that too and therefore are making an informed choice - but often that isn't the case but issue is you just don't know. And it is sad because it seems with motherhood you can't often discuss things like you would other aspects of life because people feel judged so much. I also think that sometimes you behave differently with other people around - e.g. maybe the mum would normally go in there and sit with him etc but felt needed to be out chatting with you guys.

If you can find something with a balanced view, I think the I have been reading this, or sending link to articles on internet - not directly to anyone person but just for general info is a good idea. In my MG people often send links to interesting stuff around and then is up to people if they want to take on board or not. I was reminded the other day about how I told someone about BLS and they had never heard of it before and now her son is like a poster boy for BLS.

[Doing my best]

I am in 2 different social circles with my children (1 group mainly comprises of past and present BB mums), and even though we all do gentle parenting in some way, we all do differently.

I have both my kids sleep in my room. IF DS is disturbing DD too much, then DH takes her to sleep in the spare room, but neither are left on their own. And in my original mothers group, the kids are all in their own rooms with CIO used at times. I had one of the mothers so embarrased that her DD was screaming, and chucking an outright tantrum, she thought I would never go back. But if that is the way that it works for her, who am I to judge and tell her I don't agree, or I think it's wrong? I know they don't agree with my children sleeping with us, but they have never directly said that I am doing it wrong, just said it isn't for them.

Just makes me so sad that so many dedicated, educated, competent Mums are still told that this is the only way and often that it's actually good for their child - eg. 'he needs you to teach him how to sleep... this is how you do it'. And, as a consequence, so many babies have to experience this stress. I know some parents choose to do this when fully informed of all the options because of their own circumstances and preferences and I want to be clear... I respect that.

Do you know that the mother that you have written about is 'uninformed'? Is it possible that she fits into the category of knowing and chooses to do it that way? Or maybe she was doing things differently because she had visitors? OR maybe the kid was acting up because their were people there? How would you feel if she told you that you were doing things wrong, just because you have chosen a different method of parenting? I don't tjink either way, is wrong, we just all go about it differently.

[Santosha]

You're right... I don't know that she is uninformed. She's pretty switched on and has made some great recommendations to me about other aspects of parenting where she's found useful info. I make that assumption only in that some of the things I have mentioned in passing (eg. Pinky Mackay, NCSS, BLS etc.) have come as a surprise to these women and quite a few other Mums I've met and also because I know she gets lots of info from her older sister who has done sleep school with her 3 kids (and she said pretty early on that on her sister's advice she was using CIO).

I know I'd be pretty upset and irate if any of the girls from MG told me they thought my parenting choices were wrong. I've just got to pull my head in and trust that the choice is right for her and her son. Just stirs up lots of emotion hearing a bubba so distressed I guess. And I do have a tendency to want to 'fix' things and thus have been known to stick my nose in or give advice where it's not welcome.

[misty]

We all know where you are coming from though. I just need to hear a baby cry for 2 secs and my heart breaks for it. Moreso if it isn't my baby, because I know the differences in my baby's cries, that let me know how serious it is - whereas someone else's baby I cann't always make the distinction, it always sounds more distressed then it might actually be. IYKWIM?