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Thread: Babies Born June 2006 #2

  1. #73

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    CC Welcome back ! We were getting a bit worried about you!... Like IK said , at the end of the day it doesnt matter how they made their arrival , as long as it was safe!
    Your labour sounds tiring :-/ but its great to hear that you've bonded well, cant wait to see the pics.. till then rest rest rest ! ( as much as possible with a newborn )



    Jess- good to hear you have some kind of plan in place.. hopefully everything will run smoothly

    ahh well its 3am i cant sleep because its so cold and theres no heating anywhere but in Aneta's room - so im offering to sit with her even though its DH turn heh...
    he's in a bad mood anyways *shrug* not talking to me... i just dont have the energy to investigate why at the moment
    Hope everyone's well !

  2. #74

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    I see you are feeding as well hun! Isn't it fun sitting up in the middle of the night?

  3. #75

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    hehe you too Jess ??
    ahh the joys of a newborn , I didnt realize life existed at this time heh
    I can only imagine how many other mothers are up at this time along with us... or how many Junies for that matter!
    Lucky you , your 2 hours ahead , its still awhile before morning comes here

  4. #76

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    Well, according ro the site its only you and me. Pat is asleep again but I'm wide awake now!

  5. #77

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    yep, thats the story of my life , i just realized Patrick will be 2 months soon OMG ! ! Wasnt it yesterday that we were talking about the aches and pains of pregnancy ???...
    Before we know it we will all be discussing issues with our teenagers..
    I might as well eat the timtams in the pantry , no ones watching

  6. #78

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    Hey those TimTams need to be shared!!!!!
    Yeah Patrick will be 2 months old soon, but his corrected age will be 4 weeks, so I'm ok with that!
    I was told late last night that he was a wee one and I agree he is just so tiny. I compared him yesterday to a baby that was born three days after him and compared to Pat this kid was a monster!!!!!

  7. #79

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    cee_cee - please get help for your poor nipples - can you call the ABA or find a private lactation conultant? So many women end up with breastfeeding problems that get worse, then give up due to the pain or feeling unsupported. I saw a really horrible image of a woman's nipples the other week, they were bleeding and cracked and chunks had come away - but with a private lactation consultant they were able to get the latch right straight away and it was no longer hurting, even over those sore nipples! I'm sure you would love for that too

    Breastfeeding is not meant to hurt or crack or bleed etc and usually when it does, there is usually a problem with attachment and unfortunately lactation consultants are having to work flat chat with women (they need a few good hours so they can only see so many a day!) and they are undoing all the damage that has been caused by wrong or little advice from the place of birth. Hang in there. Remember to feed your baby at the level where the breast falls naturally, his/her body aligned straight and facing you, you should be sitting comfortably with your body not twisted or hunched over and bring your baby to you.

    I'm not being anti-bottlefeeding/anti-solids here (take it as you will) as I know there are some bottlefeeding for various health reasons but for the rest I just need to point out some facts. Breastmilk provides 100% of everything your baby needs until around 6 months. Before everyone tries formula or solids to help their babies sleep through thinking that sounds great, please arm yourself with some facts, it's becoming a more common thing which is based on something not ideal at all, particularly solids at this age. This is like the increasing caesarean rates that even doctors and Obs are now admitting is out of control and carries more risks and dangers that they have not led on previously. I would even go as far as saying it's like the controlled crying epidemic, we are so desperate for sleep that we are doing things which we think will help our babies sleep or will make them sleep, which has detrimental health effects which we don't realise or look into. Is there a fine line of choice and responsibility? We are living in such a fast paced lifestyle and our lives are crammed with things to do - we need a full nights sleep just to cope with the demands we place on ourselves. However this is not the case with our babies, they are not designed to do this and on average, 'sleeping through' is 5 hours. Frequent arousals are a survival technique and protective against SIDS. This is why the don't get into as much deep sleep as adults do, else they wouldn't know to wake up when they need to. Sorry to hi-jack, but I have been a little worried about some posts going on, of which the first article I have linked addresses the issue of resources like this (BellyBelly) contributing to a huge problem, where mums get together on masse and talk each other into doing things not so desirable or optimal for babies health. Feel free to email me personally if you have any issues with this post.

    * Suck On This: What's Going On With Infant Feeding
    * Starting Solids - When is My Baby Ready?
    * Is My Baby Hungry?
    * 15 Ways To Help Your Baby Sleep
    Last edited by BellyBelly; July 11th, 2006 at 08:30 AM.
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team and many wonderful members who have been so supportive since 2003.

  8. #80
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    All I can say is that the "suck on this" article has made me feel like a failure that is doing the worst thing in the world for Ryan! And I know that wasn't your intention Kelly but that's been the result for me.

    When I talk about "sleeping through" I mean Ryan sleeps from 8:30 or 9 til 4am. (over 5 hours) and as for feeding him formula, he was constantly crying from hunger and feeding constantly even though the latch was right (I never felt pain) and as soon as he went to formula this stopped and he became a contented baby and started putting on weight. (hasn't been weighed but he's growing out of his clothes so I take this as an indicator).

    That's just my feedback at the moment. Maybe I'm taking it to heart today because I am already feeling depressed and like the worst woman in the world to be his mum even though he's being "perfect" and has just put himself to sleep in his bouncer.

  9. #81

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    Trust me on this one, I understand how you are feeling in regards to sleep - despite trying everything and 'failing' two weeks of sleep school, Marisa only started sleeping through the night after Elijah was born, then I had to deal with it all over again!! Add to that a husband working extremely late hours the whole time and me not getting on with my mum for a long time so no-one came to visit - needless to say, it has been extremely difficult and no surprise I ended up on meds. But I have had to surrender to it knowing that it's what I needed to do as it was up to me - I could sit there forever and be upset that no-one, not even my family was going to help me, or I had to get support myself and just get on with taking care of my baby as best I knew how.

    I get highly emotional and irrational often because it's now been 4.5 years since I have slept through without a baby or child waking up. We do things through tired eyes and exhaustion which results in mummy not thinking straight. I was really sick with a chest infection the other week (and incredibly exhausted as I also had low iron) and paranoia had quickly set in! I couldn't sleep one night when I started thinking what if I had some disease or cancer *slaps head*.

    We all feel very defensive about our choices as parents because they are choices we make based on a terrible support and education system, and often, when we hold our baby, it's often the first of babies we have ever held! We are in a place where we are as far away from our roots, which used to involve raising our families in a village, together, where we had lots of support, family members and exposure to all this. We were once much more confident, rested and less stressed as mothers. Now, we are isolated, exhausted and live the fast lifestyle without much of a break.

    Did you read all of that article? It's know it's very long and I find that some stop reading it once they think the message is anti-bottlefeeding, but the end of the article is brilliant. It's telling us it is not the women who are failing, it is governments, it's the system, the manufacturers - they are setting us up for failure when it's already bloody hard enough! They need to do more, they need to spend more $$ of the very little $$ they spend on breastfeeding support and education because what's in place is not working.

    All I am saying to you all is don't give up hope. Become informed and empowered. It's amazing what you can do and what change you can make. I was a completely nieve mother who was doing all the things that I now would not do - but look at me now - I look at myself and think, gees back then I would have thought this was a crazy hippy mother! But with a bit of reflection, lots of surrender and reading the right materials, it's amazing what you can do and how you feel about change. I think to myself I wish I knew lots of things sooner, I would have loved to have had a home waterbirth with my two, rather than any intervention at hospital. But I only recently found out now how great it can be, so I will wait until I am ready for the next. It's only by being informed that I have become confident about what I am doing and why, which is why I encourage everyone to do the same - no longer am I anxious or have any guilt over my choices in the past in regards to birth, sleep or feeding etc.

    You have just had a bub - surrender to your baby and let everything else go. Make it all about you and baby, stuff the housework, stuff getting dressed most days LOL! You have made choices to do things a certain way, and that's happened and that's okay. It's important to think forward and not dwell on it or it certainly will get you down. There is so much to look forward to.

    It's also important to consider that those hormones can play havoc too - if you are not coping, please see an understanding GP (not a d'head like one I had who said I was just tired, and we all get that!), or call PANDA or someone related to make sure you are okay, and not starting to feel depressed. You did what you thought was best for your baby at the time, with what resources you had. There is nothing, ever better than that - doing what we think is best. *hugs*
    Last edited by BellyBelly; July 11th, 2006 at 09:25 AM.
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team and many wonderful members who have been so supportive since 2003.

  10. #82
    littlerigger Guest

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    I did read the whole article Kelly and yes the ending is good. I do think I'm over reacting because I'm having a bad day.

    I di have to admit that i did lots of research on BFing, went to classes etc. Had the midwife help me in the hospital to make sure attachment was spot on when I left and what not but Ryan was still hungry and I agree, there just aren't wet nurses these days. Which I think is what I needed.

  11. #83

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    Kelly, first of all I want to say is stop apologising for hi jacking our thread! You are welcome to do it. Second of all, I too felt like I was failing Patrick by FF him instead of BF him. During the day and night I still BF him more often then I FF him but that was only because he wasn't putting any weight on.I have slowed down on thr formula and given him more time at the breast,but I have found that he doesn't get 'full'. I don't want to take any medications, but is there any way to boost my supply up with the nutrients he needs to feel 'full'?

  12. #84

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    Many women do end up confused and upset with advice given from hospitals - I think it's one of the top complaints which I see women make, is the support afterwards and help with breastfeeding. It's when you get home and things start falling apart which is time to try somewhere else like the ABA or a lactation consultant - and one appropriately qualified to do so. Sometimes midwives can give the advice but without being certified. An IBCLC (international board certified lactation consultant) is the top qualification you can get (but not the be-all and end-all as it is very expensive to sit) - huge exam, massive books to study, huge hours required in actual experience etc - Pinky has recently done this exam but even MCHN's don't have such specific training - they need to be doing this training too. I have seen and heard of too many MCHN's suggesting formula too quick, which is why you have to keep seeking support (which can be frustrating). A qualified lactation consultant is a good port of call - she can come to you, she can see you and she will stay for hours at a time until you are satisfied - and you can call on her other times, so you get that continuity of care.

    But for now, remind yourself that you ARE doing a great job, you DO love your baby and you DO only want whats best with the support you do have. The system is very woman un-friendly. We need more anrgy women to stand up and say that we've had enough and we deserve better. That's why I am a member of the maternity coalition.
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team and many wonderful members who have been so supportive since 2003.

  13. #85

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    Jess, how would you describe it when you say he doesn't feel 'full'? What does he do? There are times they will want to feed more and sometimes less, depening on growth spurts and other things. When Marisa went to the mother and baby unit, I now know the reason she stopped gaining weight was because she was so stressed with the environment and any attempt in rice cereal was thrown up (despite not doing it before). Even now when she is terribly upset she will vomit. She's a very anxious little bub and I wonder if the M&B unit had anything to do with it, as she wasn't the same since. But getting back on track, the MCHN suggested formula, which she wouldn't take anyway, but now she is a healthy thriving little thing. Without the small babies and without the big babies, the MCHN's wouldn't have flashy little charts to show us averages and what our baby should be doing! I had a small baby, she only ever wanted to breastfeed for a long time and weaned herself shortly after I fell pregnant with Elijah at 2.

    Remember those charts were based on formula fed babies from the US in the 1970's. They tend to have more weight as there is more waste products from formula, it takes longer to digest and get around their system, so weight is retained more than a breastfed baby. Both of my babies have been breastfed for longer that I anticipated (on their part!) one putting on little weight (she is petite and little) and one lots (he is a solid boy but not fat), so I think thats an example of a bit of genetics playing out?
    Last edited by BellyBelly; July 11th, 2006 at 09:53 AM.
    Kelly xx

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    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team and many wonderful members who have been so supportive since 2003.

  14. #86

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    Kelly, When I say he doesn't feel 'full' I mean that I could feed him for 1 hr and a half straight, and he would still be hungry. I have only ever been able to feed my babies for 6 weeks- 3 months because my milk has never been strong enough to feed them for any longer. So even though I am feeding him on Breast milk, I top him up with a bottle. In the hospital he fed on both sides three or four times(I alternate breasts after I burp him!) and then he could still take 50 ml from the bottle.

  15. #87

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    Hi All,

    Nixon & I are off to our first mums and bubs group today! should be good to meet some other mums and babies in the area! Nixon will b the eldest but should be more similar in size and everything else then if we had of started earlier.

    Jaspen- sorry to hear things have been tough.i think sometimes we are dished out everything at once to see how we can handle it. If I can ask how come they cannot operate on your father? My dad is still recovering, he is well but might not ever have the same amount of energy as he used to. He still has to wear incontenance pads which you can imagine just frustrates the f##k out of him. Being positive is the best way to be, you have to belive that everything will be alright.

    Enigma- hope your back pain is nothing serious. Ive had some back pain since on and off and i find bending over for very long hurts trying to straighten back up again, may be a co-incedance but i rekon its from the epi.

    Oh Ali you reminded me i need to get myself to centre link. DH went after Nixon was born but she told him we were not eligable for anything.... i know we are not for Part A but i thought we would be for part B. anyway maybe i earnt overe the threshold in the financial yr but now we are in a new yr i need to get it sorted. From what Ive read so far it seems so confusing, did you find that?
    Glad to hear Tori is a bit more settled


    Bath- wow Niall is staking the weight on isnt he! thats great! 800g in 2 weeks!! i think thats taken Nixon about 8 weeks! glad the nurse was so nicetulip- yay on Lucas weight gain too! howq did the plaster mould go?

  16. #88

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    Jess, it's hard to say without seeing you in person (why I advocate for LC's so often!) because there could be something to suggest either side. It could be a problem evident that you need to see and either way I think it's great to get that reassurance. There are herbs you can use to boost your supply, but I would prefer you see a naturopath / herbalist for a dose, usually it's fenugreek and I think either nettle or milkthistle. Raspberry leaf is also great for supply, but I prefer to take it in tablet form which is more concentrated and easier to swallow!!! What every way suits you. I have a few other ideas and suggestions but I am not 100% so I would perfer not to post without checking first, but I know for me, I would worry about supply too, and I am so glad I saw a LC as it made me relax alot more which in turn probably also helped my supply! If you want some names of some good LC's let me know.
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team and many wonderful members who have been so supportive since 2003.

  17. #89

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    Good morning whoa... we had some early birds in here today!

    CeeCee! Wonderful to see you back! Sorry to hear you had such a long and traumatic labour but it sounds like you're bonding beautifully with little Alexandra... am looking forward to seeing her piccy

    Breastfeeding: I've been really fortunate to have never had any significant problems but I agree with Kelly when she says that hospital staff can really stuff you around I fed Verity successfully for 9 months without so much as a sore nipple... Wade also fed well straight after birth but during my stay in hospital the staff basically harrassed me needing to know exact times (feeding duration and hours between feeds etc)... being too fuzzy headed to remember I told them estimations which never seemed to please them... either I was feeding too frequently or letting him sleep too long in between... in my usual arrogant manner I thought to myself "oh stuff them, he's a content little guy, he's getting enough" (based also on the fact that he was making heaps of dirty/wet nappies and that we were both getting enough sleep in between) but they made me leave my room and sit in a room for an hour just so they could monitor my technique! And to make sure i was feeding him for long enough (he was an 'efficient' feeder and just getting what he wanted in a shorter time than usual). They also got really nitty-gritty about attachment (eg making sure his lower arm was wrapped around my body instead of being tucked up... ok, this is a slightly better position but not absolutely necessary!) Anyhow if I hadn't been a second-timer they really would have affected my confidence... It wasn't as if i had asked for help because i was in pain (the achey sensations I described in a previous post came later when he was several months old... Wade's sucking strength wasn't too strong when he was a newborn). Another thing was different midwives had slightly different advice anyhow... some believed in demand feeding, others strongly suggested i wake him for feeds (this goes against my instincts). Anyhow, Niall fed well soon after birth once again and I've been doing just as I have always done, no sore nipples, and thankfully impressive weight gain so I'm being left alone!!! (he weighs 4842gms now enigma) So I agree with Kelly: if you have problems contact the experts, don't just rely on the advice of midwives and MCHNs because from my experience theirs have been contradictory and confusing and against my instincts... and worst of all it was given in a authoritarian manner that I felt lacked compassion and failed to acknowledge my previous breastfeeding success and (with Wade) the fact that he was thriving! I fed infront of the MCHN yesterday, kinda realising that it wasn't a textbook attachment (I was focussed on Wade beside me who was needing attention too) but gratefully she didn't say anything... and after weighing Niall and commenting on such a good result how could she? I think the other Junies like Dee (who BF whilst shopping and pushing a trolly) would understand that you don't have to be perfectly positioned every time... if baby is getting the milk, it doesn't hurt and your nipples are in good shape then it's probably good enough) I do however acknowledge the benefits of knowing the optimal position and I do feed according to that a lot of the time Going to read that BB article now...

  18. #90
    Cee_Cee99 Guest

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    Kelly,
    thank you so much for your advice. I have been to four b/f classes, seen two lactation consultants (at Hospital) and they both believe that I will 'make' it, I just have to keep trying (with her tounge down)... Last night I used teh sheld and within 30 seconds the whole thing filled with blood, so I was trying to force her to drink my blood, it was horrible...but I tried the other nipple and no blood, but both nipples look like tiger eyes, a big scabby cut right down the middle of both of them.. my nipples look like they are looking at you.. (sorry trying to make light of the situation)...I will post in B/F to see if anyone knows of a consultant in Sydney .

    A successful feed from both nipples this morning - no blood, but you could see the 'ridge' she causes on my nipples once she stops sucking, so definately an attachment issue...

    I will make it, I'm determine too... (not that formular is bad, I just don't want the hassel of making formular, I like the fast food concept of breast milk)...

    Enigma, my best friend has formular fed both her girls from day dot, and they are healthy and beautiful, the first one, is the smartest girl in her class (and the tallest).. so this determination to b/f is just a personal stuggle, don't feel bad honey, you have your own stuggles I'm sure!

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