What happens to the sisterhood when you FF?

[Visitor3]

Lulu, I understand a person being happy to BF and explaining the benefits. I was completely over the moon when I first started BF'ing and spoke about how wonderful it was, BUT I would never say to someone who tried BF'ding and did not succeed, "aaaw, you can't BF, well it's just the best thing ever !" To me that would just be a little thoughtless and mean to be perfectly honest.

Yes NikiW you're right, that was the post that upset me and as much as I thought I had made this conscious decision to nourish my child, rather than let her starve just because she was getting a little breast milk, my heart absolutely aches that it did not work out. Perhaps it was a careless post but it really, really hurt.

You know what? I never got one negative comment about having to resort to FFing from anyone IRL. I only ever got it online.

That has also been my experience....


Thank you for your understanding....

[Inanna]

Hugs my love I have no idea what post you are referring to... Maybe you should pm the person & explain your feelings. I am imagining if she said something hurtful to you - it wouldn't have been intended to be hurtful. We are ALL capabale of harming others with our words unintentionally. I am thinking if I said something to hurt and then read a thread about it - I would be equally harmed. kwim?

I hope you can come to peace with where your journey is taking you...

I know someone said you can't know how hard it is until you've been there. Well I haven't ff - but I had an incredibly exhausting, frustrating, painful and heartwrenching experience with my first baby - just remembering the first few months make my toes curl! My outcome was different - but as a Mama who hasn't ff - I can say I fully understand why some mothers choose the FF road...

[Glamourcide]

Aww, big hugs to you, sweetie. I know exactly how you feel. But strangely, I would never have felt this way if I hadn't had *some* success in BFing - DD1 was FF'd and EBM for 6 weeks, then exclusively FF'd, and I never ever ever had even the slightest feeling of negativity or guilt about it - it wasn't a choice, it was the one and only option I had available to me. Simple. My child was fed, she was healthy. What more could anybody want from me?
Then DD2 was born, no complications, and my milk came in straight away. We've successfully BF'd for 5 months but at this point, I'm supplementing her with formula (it's probably 4 bottles & 3 or 4 BF's in a 24-hour period) and I'm getting all those icky feelings that I'm somehow doing her wrong. But then I only have to look at how happy she is after a bottle (my milk supply is decreasing rapidly because I'm losing weight, and in turn DD2 is refusing the breast unless she wants boobie to put her to sleep, so I need to save my milk for bedtime so she doesn't get frustrated and worked up when she doesn't get a good feed), and realise how much more relaxed and happy we are during the fewer BFs we do have, and I know I'm making the best decision for us both. I refuse to let anybody try to tear that choice down and make me feel bad because I *can* BF this time. That's not the point - those who insist that I 'keep trying' are not the ones cradling a kicking and screaming baby, in tears, knowing that they have no milk and a hungry baby. It would be detrimental to both DD2 and I to persist with exclusive BFing, and my aim is to do whatever makes her happiest, even if that means she misses out on the benefits of being exclusively BF'd for the first 6 months.

I too have found that my IRL network has been nothing but absolutely supportive in this situation - a lot of my friends have had what they consider to be negative experiences in BFing and are glad that I'm taking steps to avoid the heartache they went through. My mother, I think, is a bit jealous that I've BF'd successfully for so long as she didn't BF my brother or I, and as a bonus it means she gets to spend more time with DD2 because now she can be away from me for more than half an hour at a time (she refused to take EBM at all). DH can see that we're both happier and that makes him happy, as he can't stand the stress hanging in the air when he's home. But I've been reluctant to say anything on BB because while I know that the vast majority of members are caring, supportive and just want the best for me and my child, I know that sometimes tactless or unthinking comments slip through and while I shouldn't let them get to me... they kind of do, if I'm feeling fragile.

I'm afraid I can't offer much advice on how to deal with these kinds of comments, other than to try and shake them off and focus on the ones that you do find positive And know that you're DEFINITELY not alone in having to/wanting to FF your baby - I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with it! I think society in general needs to be more educated as to the benefits of BFing, but if all else fails, formula's not a bad substitute - and you've given it your best shot, so please, PLEASE give yourself a big pat on the back for making it as far as you did. BFing may be natural and 'best' for baby, but it sure as heck ain't easy!

[Mother Goose]

PB I can see how much this has hurt you. When I had to resort to FF DD, there were one or two comments on BB that really cut me. And I still get annoyed when people get really high on their horse about BFing being the ONLY option. But, over time I've come to realise a great many things. Including that often how I interpreted the comments was because of how I felt about it myself. I had to learn to be confident with the decisions I made (which extend further than just FFing) - and to know that the decisions I made were the best for my DD and for our situation. Everyone's situation is different and often sweeping statements don't apply to everyone (they can't!). I know comments still hurt - but take pride in that YOU have done what is best for YOUR situation. If I'm really hurt, I subtly try to describe the scene on the other side of the fence... and then let the person either accept or rebutt it. If they are unable to see benefits of both situations - then it is no skin off my nose. I made the right decision for my situation, and I'm not a closed book. I'm open to others opinions and I refuse to judge people for the decisions they make. Unfortunately not everyone in this world is open minded. The trick is working out, does the opinion of the person criticizing my decisions REALLY matter? have they walked in my shoes? Do they know how hard I persevered to achieve XXX before having to go to YYY? Do I have support and encouragement from the person/s who REALLY matter in my life?

I'm not in any way trying to trivialise your feelings. I certainly understand how you feel because I've been there myself.

There have been massive debates on this forum about BFing Vs FFing... and at the end of the day, everyone has always agreed that so long as a baby/infant is getting the nutrients they need - that is all that matters. But as a result of many of those kinds of debates, the FFing support section was created. And there are a GREAT many people on this site who HAVE FF. Myself included. Several of the Mods have FF and I know they are very supportive of those who go down that path. Whilst there are always people in every community who don't support everything, there are a LOT on here who do.

MG

[New Dawn]

I have no wise words like so many others here on BB, I too FF all 3 winkies Ds was lucky to have BM until 9 mths but both DD's I managed only until they were 3mths ish, It was heart breaking having to stop BM, so I know how you feel, but we do what is best for our babies, and sometimes that is FF...

IRL I dont know many women who BF most do a bit of both, other I have known only FF and never BF, that has been their choice and I have supported them for it...

dont think your on your own, their are alot of us who have been though the same thing...

[kirsty_lee]

I wasn't going to post in here because to me, imo, its a never ending debate. But, I could of written your post word for word when I was first making the decision about making the switch because SHE needed it. I cried for a week, and then realised that it wasn't the decision that was making me so upset, it was that I would have to say that I had failed and had to ff, and people would judge me. No matter what anyone says, it happens ALOT, whether intentional or not, whether it's subtle or not, it happens. I even had one member tell me IN THE CHAT ROOM that I had made the decision for my own selfish reasons that I hadn't tried hard enough and that it was my child that was going to suffer because I was being selfish. that for me was one of the most painful things to hear. And I cried some more. I felt like a horrible mother. I know EXACTLY how your feeling babe, and even I read that comment and went errr insensitive. But you know what I have come to realise in the past few months? And this is totally my opinion and anyone they like can jump up and down and get upset with it. But I am Ava's mother. I feed her, shelter her, cuddle her when she's sad or sick. No one else does that, therefore NO ONE else has the right to say what I should and shouldn't be doing. No one on this forum, nor any forum will EVER make me feel guilty or bad for any decisions that I have made because regardless of what anyone else thinks, at the end of the day I made those decisions in the best interest of my child. I formula fed, I control cried, I disposable nappied, i've smacked, i've time out'd, I fed her solids before 6 months and I am DAME proud of doing all of that. Just remember hun, YOUR child. No one wakes up and thinks, hey formula is apparently bad for kids, I think I am going to give it to them because it will harm them. There is no malicious intent in feeding your child formula. yep it totally sucks that we couldn't finish our breastfeeding journey. But don't let anyone make you feel guilty for it babe, cause you know what. It's always something that someone isn't happy with. Jmo

[New Dawn]

well said Kirsty - lee, sounds too me you are what meny on here wont admit to been a normal mother I too do all that you have said above, and all the mothers I meet IRL are they same... we can only do the best we know how to do...

BB is great for the support it give but has made me feel like I am not a good mother when reading some threads, yes I put my hand up and say the TV is on all day in my house, I smack, scream and shout, I spend too much time on here ,I FF , my Dd2 was in sposies from birth but I love my winkies and I am doing the best I know how...

[Jakabella]

I wasnt going to post as I have been apart of these debates since I had DD - but I just wanted to let you know that I feel your pain. I tried to BF from birth but I never got any milk - not a drop so FF was my ONLY choice. I still feel upset by that and I will admit that there are alot of comments on here that I take to heart - even now and DD is 11 months old. I feel I failed and its hard to come to terms with - its even harder when there are ppl put there that make you feel worse.

I do agree with MG - Its sometimes how I read the comments and how I choose to interperate them but they are still very painfull for me.

I have only really had one or two bad experiances IRL about FFing but I have have had many bad experiances in here, but I choose to stay on BB and move on any maybe try to educate ppl and make them relise its not as cut and dry for some ppl as they may thinks it is.

How ever you feed your child doesnt matter at the end of the day - its how you love them!

Hugs babe.

Kate

[Nelle]

I've never really FF so I'm not qualified to comment on that, but I really am sorry that you feel unsupported at times.

From my experience, when we're offended or unsupported by someone, I really really think it's worth PMing the person in question - they may just have worded something badly, or it's come across wrong, or they've been skimming and missed some details. And I suppose we could say 'well members shouldn't post unless they have time to focus' but if that was our standard I know that I would be around a lot less. Even if they have just been insensitive (and we all make errors of judgement at times), at least give them the chance to apologise.
So that would be my recommendation. For all of us really. PM the person (no matter who they are!) and let them know how their post made you feel and ask if perhaps you misunderstood them?

[Inanna]

I am hearing from these post a real "us & them" attitude. I feel sad to read that.

I feel sad to be reading such an attitude. Such a division made only on the grounds of choices.

You are right KL nobody can make you feel guilty... You choose in every moment how you will feel & react. That is responsibility.

I have never once read on this site that a mother that formula feeds is a "bad" (sic) mother.
I have read a lot about how people feel "bad" (sic) when they read of others touting the miracle of breastfeeding...

What do you all see as a solution to this?

This is a gentle parenting site. It is a site that parents come to to learn more about getting back to basics with regard to conception, pregnancy, birth & parenting.

As such we will always discuss the superiority of breastmilk. We will always discuss the superiority of informed decisions...

Opening threads to have a go at a person in another thread is hurtful - the very thing that was touted as the reason for this thread!

We are never here on BB going to tell anyone that FF is better than breast feeding. That's not going to happen. You will always be given options rather than FF. But at the end of the day if your baby is going to starve - well of course you FF.

The sadness and grief some women feel about the decision to FF needs to be owned and not projected as anger onto those who have tried to support breast feeding.

It needs to be remembered that breastfeeding mothers are in the minority in our country. We as a site want to see that change...

Of course not to the detriment of babies and mothers. However, to silence those that advocate breastfeeding for fear of stepping on toes of ff mothers. Well that too is to the detriment of mothers and babies.

It is like trying to argue that a hot dog is as healthy as a burgen bread salad sandwhich.

I wish everyone peace with their decisions - rather than making this an us and them argument...
__

[Mother Goose]

Opening threads to have a go at a person in another thread is hurtful - the very thing that was touted as the reason for this thread!

I haven't actually interpreted this thread as being designed to have a go at a particular person. More that the OP is crying out for support in their decision. That THEY feel unsupported in FFing. I, as a poster in this thread, feel that those who have replied have not tried to make this into a "them and us" type thread but to support the OP by validating the OP's feelings, sharing their own experiences in how they have perceived they have not been supported (or have been supported), and offering advice on how they have dealt with those feelings. But, that is my interpretation - it can be difficult to interpret the feelings, emotions, and motives behind the words on a screen.

I LOVE the reference to comparing hot dogs and bergan salad sandwhich! gotta work out how to drop that into a conversation with someone I know!

[TeniBear]

Ohh no... I'm so sorry... I know it wasn't me who said it, but the post you're talking about was in a thread I started If anything I said myself was hurtful, I really am sorry because that wasn't the point of the thread at all. I was just frustrated because my "friend" was acting as if I didn't know anything about being a mum and I couldn't do anything about it...

[Trillian]

I think the main point that a lot of people are missing is that you can support someone 100% but at the same time not agree with what they are doing. This applies to life in general too. Its like having a friend who you know is making choices for herself that you would never do and don't agree with, but because she is your friend you support her 100% because thats what friends do for each other. Just because you may not have people agreeing that formula is the best thing since sliced bread doesn't mean that they don't support you, because support is so much more than just agreeing with you. So when someone says "I support you" and then in the next breath espouses the virtues of BF, that doesn't mean they don't support you (although their timing is crap LOL).

And I agree with Inanna 100% in her post. BB is first and foremost a gentle parenting forum and that encompases BF as a major part of it, but it is also a place for support because no one could be so cruel to shun a mother when she is struggling. We all know that not everyone has a wonderful support system that helps them through the rough patch and an online community can only do so much for someone. I know myself that I have always felt 100% supported when it comes to feeding my baby even though it's not what the site advocates, or heck, even what I advocate myself, and that's what the sisterhood really is. Unconditional support even when you dont always agree.

[Visitor3]

And I FF my first child (after many struggles), so I do know what it's like to feel the disappointment that goes along with not breastfeeding. At the end of the day own your choices, and allow others to feel happy in the choices they have made for themselves. Just because someone is happy about BF'ing doesn't mean they are attacking your, same for if someone doesn't like the idea of FF'ing.

I absolutely adored breastfeeding so why on earth would I choose to FF over something that felt so nurturing and loving to me ??? I am ecstatic for anyone who BF but having your beautiful child fall asleep at your breast while you feed her, I mean it must be the most wonderful thing on earth and not something I chose not to experience? I wasn't hurt because Kelly had experienced that, that would be totally silly.

It made me feel like crap.

[Gigi]

pretty butterfly - you know i am still bf-ing bilby, so i can't say i have been in your shoes with this one.

but i did feel similarly with
- having a emergency c-section when i had my heart set on a drug free homebirth
- the post c-section complications that stopped me using slings/carriers

both where things i felt passionately about (just like you wanted to bf)
both where things that ended up, decided for me, out of my control
i felt like a failure in both instances
and constantly reading about
- successful home, drug free waterbirth stories
- mums using slings.carriers all the time
really did get under my skin.
i'm sure i read plenty of comments, from people doing these things, extolling their virtures, that put "salt in my wound".
They weren't to know my individual circumstances
How hard to tried to make these things happen, but they didn't

I have had a "journey" with bf-ing.
It wasn't easy.
So when i talk to women about bf-ing, i try to slip in "i feel very fortunate that i was able to do it (product milk) and that bilby was able to breastfeed (able to suck)". cos i DON"T take it dfor granted, either that we would be able to do it, or that every other woman is able to do it.

i see it as an IDEAL.
(just like the water home birth, and the using baby slings, were ideals for me also).

mothering seems like a lucky dip to me.
i researched and aimed at different things.

some worked out
(using cloth nappies, breastfeeding)
both took time, effort and constant learning

some didn't work out
(natural birth, slings, EC-ing)
regardless of how much i researched, life intervened.

so i really hope, none of my pro-bf-ing comments have upset you hon, to me, bf-ing is something to AIM for, something to TRY, but it is not suitable for every baby, not suitable for every mum, not suitable for every family (support from your dh and relatives is very important, to make a go of it i think).

if something i said upset you, please PM me, i would like the chance to explain, make it better, apologise etc.

i still feel devastated that i didn't have the natural birth experience, so much emotion attached to these things, so i get why you are upset about wanting to bf and things not working out, to carry out that wish/plan/desire.

Breast may be best, but formula was invented for a reason.
BF-ing is not always possible, and in those cases, babies still need to survive.
Formula is a brilliant invention for those instances.
i have met some mums in this boat, for whom it took a long time to find a formula that their bub's stomache could handle, so it's not an easy alternative. I know a particular bub whose mum tried a Holle organic formula and that one her tummy could handle.

Whether you feed formula way or breast way, you need support.

i've been dissed plenty of times FOR breastfeeding bilby. Very upsetting. Been told, ever since she was 5 months old, "Why isn't she on FF"? even by medical professionals!!

so WHATEVER you do, support is needed.

it seems, as soon as you have a child, EVERYONE and their dog feels like they can force their opinon on you! it's really hard! especially to cope with those words, when you are tired, overwhelmed with looking after a baby etc.

but people who love you, people who count, will think before they speak, take the time to find out WHY you are doing what you are doing. The truth is, whatever you do for your child, you HAVE thought about to the nth degree, you know your own history. i know it's exhauting explaining that to all and sundry. Choose your battles. Only explain it to people that it's worth explaining to (not just one-offs who you will never see again).

your child
your body
your decision

if it's too painful to talk about it, think of a comeback to use, to brush them off, or just change topic. "This is what works for us". "We tried our best, and this is what we need to do". whatever works/suits you to say.

you only have SO MUCH emotional energy, conserve it for things that matter (like explaining the situation to someone you WILL have an ongoing r;ship with, who really needs to know).

thinking of you.

[[M]umma[M]ia]

I wasn't going to post in here because to me, imo, its a never ending debate. But, I could of written your post word for word when I was first making the decision about making the switch because SHE needed it. I cried for a week, and then realised that it wasn't the decision that was making me so upset, it was that I would have to say that I had failed and had to ff, and people would judge me. No matter what anyone says, it happens ALOT, whether intentional or not, whether it's subtle or not, it happens. I even had one member tell me IN THE CHAT ROOM that I had made the decision for my own selfish reasons that I hadn't tried hard enough and that it was my child that was going to suffer because I was being selfish. that for me was one of the most painful things to hear. And I cried some more. I felt like a horrible mother. I know EXACTLY how your feeling babe, and even I read that comment and went errr insensitive. But you know what I have come to realise in the past few months? And this is totally my opinion and anyone they like can jump up and down and get upset with it. But I am Ava's mother. I feed her, shelter her, cuddle her when she's sad or sick. No one else does that, therefore NO ONE else has the right to say what I should and shouldn't be doing. No one on this forum, nor any forum will EVER make me feel guilty or bad for any decisions that I have made because regardless of what anyone else thinks, at the end of the day I made those decisions in the best interest of my child. I formula fed, I control cried, I disposable nappied, i've smacked, i've time out'd, I fed her solids before 6 months and I am DAME proud of doing all of that. Just remember hun, YOUR child. No one wakes up and thinks, hey formula is apparently bad for kids, I think I am going to give it to them because it will harm them. There is no malicious intent in feeding your child formula. yep it totally sucks that we couldn't finish our breastfeeding journey. But don't let anyone make you feel guilty for it babe, cause you know what. It's always something that someone isn't happy with. Jmo

:yeahthat:

[Rouge]

It is us and them, when the same people who obviously have issues, and think that BB is a big FF hating site only come back to discuss topics like this.

I just wish people could feel supported no matter what they did, instead of only coming together when they feel downtrodden. When it's obvious that some of us desperately do not want ANYONE to feel that way. And anyone can feel that way no matter what you do. And no I'm not trying to say the feelings discussed in this thread are irrelevant. Because of course they are. But I really am sick of the witch hunt against BB by older members... I've been here for 6 and a half years and this keeps getting rehashed again and again, and usually by those who can't let go of their issues. And from MY POV it hurts. It hurts because I and many others who have been on both sides of the fence try time and again to explain that we DO NOT feel badly towards FF'ers... but it doesn't matter... it continually falls on deaf ear. Because it's easier to ignore the fact that we are pooring our hearts out to make other's comfortable... so it's easier to just think we are all just a bunch of FF haters. So continue with your hate if you must towards those who you think hate you. Because that is logic at it's best.

But I will say this for the last time. I KNOW what it feels like to have regrets, or guilt associated with choosing formula, I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and I certainly wouldn't judge anyone for that either. And y'know what? The majority of the mod team have at one point or another FF a child. So why would they judge you, or encourage other's to judge you... isn't that in turn judging themselves?

[Mother Goose]

The majority of the mod team have at one point or another FF a child. So why would they judge you, or encourage other's to judge you... isn't that in turn judging themselves?

I did actually try to point that out earlier in the thread Rouge. And I didn't interpret the OP as being aimed as Mods.

Inanna, i agree support isn't about being told what someone perceives you want to hear - but about sharing experiences. About encouraging someone to talk about their feelings and work through them. To listen to someone when they have something they need to offload (constructively).

Please don't think I'm being argumentative or creating an us and them thread because that certainly isn't the case. Just trying to support the person who obviously feels the need to vent today.

And you're right Rouge - these threads have been a plenty over the years. I've certainly seen a great many in the 3 (?) years I've been here... and it is FRUSTRATING! But, at the end of the day, I see it as someone is struggling, has hit bursting point, and needs to get it out before they explode. Not that they are trying to be malicious. Just that they need to be supported in dealing with how they are feeling - the same way we support every other aspect of conception, pregnancy, birth, and parenting.

"But I really am sick of the witch hunt against BB by older members..." I have to say - I've only seen this happen once or twice (but it must happen more frequently from some of the posts in "From BellyBelly" type areas) and I too find that very disturbing. Especially since BB IS a caring and wonderful site. And haven't we all joined to research, support, and be supported? We may not all see eye to eye 100% of the time, but that would make us all boring! What would we discuss then?!

MG