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thread: IVF with PGD #4

  1. #55
    Registered User

    Jan 2005
    1,271

    Sara, I just made an appt with him first. He has city, burwood and liverpool practice (I seriously don't know how he handles all these and day surgery but that's another topic) and work in different clinics on different days. Just check which one you can get in first...I went to the Liverpool one for the first time but city (kent street one) thereafter.

    Looking back, I think I over thought it too much. How will my FS feeling etc etc....I was trying to pre-warn my FS before my appt with Dr. Lok...but he didn't take it very well. If I'd do it again, I 'd just go to see Dr. Lok without mentioning anything to the current FS, once happy with him, simply inform the current FS that I am changing FS, and that's it, full stop. Sometimes, trying to consider too much of other people's feeling under this circumstance is not adding any convenience to ourselves, nothing personal, but if it is not working for us, it is downright our decision what to do. Not to mention how much $$$ we are throwing at them.



    Nevertheless, there has never been a problem of transfering any paper work of any sort, Dr. Lok can get it on the computer from patient file anyway. Good luck hun!

  2. #56
    Registered User

    Oct 2008
    Brisbane, Queensland
    65

    Thanks, ladies. I understand how helpless, and robbed, he must feel sometimes, but I just keep remembering all of the crappy things he's done - and not done - since we began TTC. When they p*** you off or let you down, you remember all the bad things, so I'm having a great deal of trouble thinking of any good things at the moment.

    I suppose that the main component of my absolute disappointment is that I have said over and over and over that if I take a 'break' then it will be the end of TTC for me. I am terrified that if I stop I won't be able to gather the courage or strength to start again. At least when you're doing it over and over again, you feel like you're just being carried by the momentum, like you're doing it because you can't do nothing. So, my DH knows that if I stop I won't start again, and I fear that that is being used by him to his advantage. Being scared of the disappointments and the heartache is one thing; being a selfish coward is another. The worst thing is, even though it's sad in it's own right to have to move on to a donor, I don't feel sad about it at all, just truly hopeful. Honest, genuine hope for the first time in a very, very long time. My DH knows that and has still put himself over us, and me, again. I felt like a ten ton weight had been lifted from my shoulders when I went on the donor registers, explained that to DH, and still he would rather run and hide. I feel like I'm being punished for not being able to have 'our' baby. I think my biggest mistake here was letting him think that the final decision was his, and not ours, to make.

    Sometimes I wonder why I'm trying so desperately to have a child when I'm already trying to raise one!
    Last edited by Kel81; April 23rd, 2009 at 08:40 AM.

  3. #57
    BellyBelly Member

    Feb 2008
    Perth
    615

    Oh Kel, I just read your post and my heart just goes out to you. This Whole TTC journey puts a lot of strain on our relationships and from your signiture I can see that yours is a particularily difficult journey. Especially compared with my relatively easy run so far. Can I suggest talking with your clinic councellor it may help. In reagrds to taking a break. I took six months break last year after 4 back to back failed cycles. I thought at the time that I wouldn't go back that the pain wasn't worth it. But as time went by i realised that it really was what I wanted. Taking the break and the step back from the nightmare of BT and needles and scans made me realise that another child was worth all the sacrifices that we are making. I couldn't make this clear judgement while I was still cycling. Please dont fell that I am butting in as I am a stranger to you I was just reading and feeling you pain. please if there is anything I can do just PM me.

  4. #58
    Registered User

    Sep 2008
    Sydney
    752

    Kel I also think I can understand being driven and wanting to just stay in the flow with it - When I had the termination of the affected baby I wanted to start IVF immediately. My DH was absolutely against it, over the next six months I was able to pick myself up and started to get over the pain of losing the baby but he fell into a deep dpression which ultimately ended our relationship.

    There would have probably been ways for both of us to work on it a better and we might have stayed together. However, he has just married and I am very happy with DP - what I want to say is that there are several options in life and they all can lead to happiness. BTW - with both of them I can understand the feeling that you already have a child on your side that your'e trying to raise

    I think you can only do what you feel is right but would also support Saph in the way that if you're not already talking to a counsellor it would be a good idea to do so and talk to someone independent, while family and friends can give good support a counsellor might be better qualified to help you make the right decision. Consider taking at least a short break (even a weekend away in a health resort might help) before making a decision, I dearly hope you will find peace and make the right decison for yourself - very happy to talk further via PM if you like.

    AFM - AF arrived this morning, it's okay as I just want to get it done and over with - just talked to the clinic counsellor which was of some help but I think I will need a little time to get over the disappointment, thinking of going away the weekend after next to a health resort to get back to basics so to speak. Thank you very much for your support over this cycle, it was very helpful - wouldn't been able to get through this otherwise.

    Sara

  5. #59
    BellyBelly Member

    Jan 2006
    Coburg -Melbourne
    655

    Kel - Men are truly from another planet and i totally understand the issues you are having. Have been and still am travelling a similar journey with my DH. Mine never comes to appts, knows what drugs i'm on etc. Just turns up to deliver his "sample"... thats it! I do however, think that men feel a bit helpless with it all. They can't take the needles, BTs etc for you. That is a burden that cannot be shared. I don't think its within the male makeup to realise they don't have to actually DO anything to be of help. Just coming with us or "being there" emotionally for support would be enough for most of us but men are 'fixers". if they can't fix it then they feel they can't do anything.
    We are also driven by the hormones both natural and introduced... it DOES mess with your brain and I think leads to TTC as an obsession. I would certainly admit that I have become obsessed by the whole thing. Nothing much else in life interests me that much and it drives my DH crazy because he doesn't feel the same way. I am not sure any man can.
    I agree with the otheres that you need to give yourself a touch of breathing space just to sort through things when you are not so "raw" from a failed cycle. I do think doing it all solo would be very tough, no matter how unsupportive DH might be. You also don't want to be 5yrs down the track, possibly with a child but regretting that your marriage is over and maybe could have been saved.
    Wait until DH is home so you can talk face to face and maybe you can both come to a compromise. I do think he needs to realise the hope that could come with using donor eggs/emryos. At east with eggs, he can still be the child's biological father and you still get to carry and birth the child.... which to me personally,is the most major aspect of becoming a "mother". My sister has a donor egg child and he is totally and utterly "hers". She carried him, birthed him, breastfed him etc etc. None of us percieve it any other way. You have obviously come to peace with this idea. I do think he should be able to to.
    Anyway, sorry for the rambling but i really do get where you are at. I love my DH but there have been plenty of times I've resented him immensely for what i percieved as lack of support.

    sara - My heart goes out to you. You are sounding very brave. I must admit. I am glad you are keeping busy with planning for the future. I think thats all you can do to keep yourself going and not fall in a heap. The future at least holds some hope. Even if you are undecided about changing clinic/Dr's, maybe at least go have appt with someone else to hear another perspective. Julie heard far different treatment approach from a new FS . Not all Dr's are the same and you need to know you are trying EVERYTHING to achieve your dream

    Lulu - sending you big hugs to. I don't honestly know how you keep picking yourself up again. An amazing person you are!

  6. #60
    Registered User

    Aug 2008
    Melbourne
    1,539

    very quick note - I plan on posting the protocol new FS has recommended in the Older Women thread but have not had time...I do want to share it with you all and get opinions - just need to find the time to read the little material she gave me & put it together in some coherent way.

    will bbl with personals as well...

  7. #61
    BellyBelly Member

    May 2008
    NSW
    696

    Sweet Sara - I was so sorry to log on to BB just now and read this cycle did not result in your much longed for BFP. Once again, you have made it one step further - this time to transfer. Every cycle is improving. I understand your wanting to change FS. You have done a few cycles now and a fresh approach is warranted. BTW, remember to keep up the DHEA (I don't know if you chose to stop). Maybe it was already gradually improving things?

    I have been thinking a lot about why my cycle this time around worked out better. I am not entirely sure it was the DHEA. You know that my first (down reg) cycle was cancelled (needed a bigger dose of Puregon). Then, not wanting to waste time and because of the whole Christmas break and IVF closing, etc, I followed immediately with a (Orgalutron) back-to-back cycle. I got three less eggs but got to transfer. BFN. I then had the chemical PG (like a month off) and then tried my third and successful cycle (Orgalutron). This time I got the same number of eggs as the first cycle, but the quality had improved.

    So the main differences were:
    1. It was not a back to back cycle. My FS had warned me between cancelled Cycle 1 and Cycle 2 the next month that it can result in less eggs.
    2. Just over 2 months of DHEA (except for the couple of days with the chemical PG)
    3. Royal Jelly
    4. Increase of FSH over first cancelled cycle, and changed from Puregon to Gonal-F.
    5. DH has been sprinkling MACA root powder on his cereal each morning - great for swimmers

    At the time of my BFP, I was told every cycle is different. But I thought I would share this with you, as I did 3 cycles over 4 months.

    Kel - I too am sorry to read you are at odds right now with your partner over the TTC IVF journey. I thought Saph's suggestion of using your clinic's IVF councillor was a good idea - do you think he would go with you? Perhaps a little holiday/weekend getaway of some kind and enjoying each other will make it easier to open up. IVF is physically and emotionally draining and the guys do have it pretty good in terms of supplying their blood and swimmer samples. But I think it does hurt them to see us go through what we do. Hopefully he just needs a little time. I get what you mean about being worried about "taking a break" and finding it hard to start again. But your body has been through a huge ordeal and needs a little time to recover. Take care xx

    A big for Julie

    to Cuddlepie, Meredith, WLAB, Lisa and MsPink

  8. #62
    Registered User

    Sep 2008
    Sydney
    752

    WTH: Thanks so much for sharing, this is really helpful - there is one thing I wanted to ask you, I remember that with your first transfer you called it the super embie as it was a large blastocyst - I had similar comments from the scientist this time around - mine was a Day 6 transfer of a fully hatched blastocyst - I am now wondering if a Day 6 transfer may just be too late and the chances may be smaller if the embie is already grown too large? Would be interested if you have any thoughts on this. I don't really remember but thought your second transfer may have already been on Day 5 - is this correct?

    On the back-to-back cycle - I had considered when it looked like I wouldn't have a transfer - I have now decided that I am emotionally and physically not ready for another cycle so will definitely wait for four weeks.

    Sara

  9. #63
    BellyBelly Member

    May 2008
    NSW
    696

    Sara - this I can help you on. I actually was a bit peeved about the first transfer. Yes it was Day 6 - and yes, they had to use a larger pipette. The embryologist said it was the biggest embryo she had seen transferred - it was multiplying rapidly. They kept reassuring me that the embryo itself was perfect. I was annoyed, as my understanding from what happened is they had already removed the cells for biopsy on Day 5. I believe they may also have dropped the DNA colour probe on it the day before as well. But this takes two hours to kick in, and it was closing time. So they were biopsied the next morning. But the FS booked to do my transfer was not available until 2pm! We arrived on time, but he was late. So 3 o'clock transfer. If only my embryo had been ready just a couple of hours earlier on Day 5 it would have been transferred late that day! In fairness, in my case, things also take longer, as I was having 8 tests done. This is done in two rounds (5 chromosone, then 3 extra chromosones) and has to be double-checked by the second scientist. Sorry about my rant, but yes, I do wonder... Now scientifically, I was told Day 5 blasts to have "a slightly better implantation rate". Apparently implantation happens around 36 hours after transfer with a Day 5 blast. I was told by about Day 7-8, the embryo loses it's quality. So in my case, my first transfer would have been trying to implant around that time.

  10. #64
    Registered User

    Sep 2008
    Sydney
    752

    Thank you WTH - that is exactly what I was thinking - will take it up with my FS. I am currently putting together a list of questions to email to her so that we can discuss them next week.

    Sara

  11. #65
    Registered User

    Aug 2008
    Melbourne
    1,539

    Hi everyone

    Sara - I posted the stuff about my new protocol in the Older Women's thread - so I won't bother to post it here as it's long.

    Kel - everyone here has said everything I was going to say and then some. You sound like you are a very strong person. And you also have a very definite idea of your priorities. These qualities are sure to help you reach your goal. Can I ask a personal question which of course you can ignore - if you go the donor path, will your husband stay by your side? I ask, because if this is an issue, you are taking a lot on (which I admire) and I hope for you that you have lots of support and other people to hold your hand and give you a hug when you need it (sounds like your mom is great)...plus we are all here as well.

    Hi WTH, MeredithD, C'Pie, Saph, Lulu, WLAB and anyone else out there...

  12. #66
    Registered User

    Sep 2008
    Sydney
    752

    Thanks Buliej, have seen it, think I'll add that to the list of questions for my FS - think it would be agood idea to post it here too as it sounds like an interesting new approach.

    It's Friday, yeah - can't tell you how much forward I am looking to the weekend.

    Question: Okay it's pprobably a stupid question but I am wondering if there is anything wrong with my, my boobs are still really sore and AF is very heavy much more than usually - is that normal after a ET? Also think my ovariers are still sore as I am finding it very hard to do any sort of exercise like fast powerwalking.

    Sara

  13. #67
    Registered User

    Aug 2008
    Melbourne
    1,539

    Sara - not sure about the boob part as acupuncture actually did away with my pre-AF boob tenderness. As for the sore ovaries - Mine would take at least 2-3 weeks to feel better. I'm sure everyone is different but I am always quite uncomfortable for a while. Asked my FS - it is nothing to worry about and is quite normal.

  14. #68
    Registered User

    Sep 2008
    Sydney
    752

    Thanks Julie, I called the clinic as well and the nurse said it's normal.

    But sorry for the whinge this is physically and emotionally so much worse to get over, I really didn't expect this.

    I am one of the lucky ones who usually don't have any heavy periods and it's eye opening to have areally bad one - I used six normal sized tampons yesterday normally on the worst day it's three - sorry for TMI

    Feeling completely exhausted and quite painful. Was planning to do a bushwalk tomorrow but don't think that willl be possible.

    Sara

  15. #69
    Registered User

    Aug 2008
    Melbourne
    1,539

    Sara - that's a lot of tampons! sounds like a sure sign that your body has been through a lot. I would imagine that this indicates your hormones are all amuck - no wonder you are feeling like you do. And of course, the disappointment. There are so many threads and posts about feeling this way after a non-successful cycle - you are not alone and what you are feeling is normal. Hope you are able to get out tomorrow and do some kind of walk just to clear your head ... if not, maybe there's something else you can do that will allow you to escape for a few hours.

  16. #70
    BellyBelly Member

    Feb 2008
    Perth
    615

    Sara can I say I know what you are going through. My Af is always heavier after stims, but to make you feel a little better on my heaviest day I go through a super tampon every half and hour to an hour. They tell me that I shouldn't use tampons when it is like this but I will stand up and everything will completely flood without them. My AF have been unbelievably heavy since the birth of DS. I even rang health direct (before starting AC) to see if there was something wrong with me. I know TMI but I also get big clots nurse has told me that it is from all the hormones. Hope this hasn't grossed anyone out and is helpful or comforting somewhat.

  17. #71
    Registered User

    Sep 2008
    Sydney
    752

    Actually Saph it really helps to know, I talked to my sister yesterday and she also normally goes to a few super tampons on her worst day which made me feel a bit better. Stayed in bed all day yesterday just reading a book and then went ourt for dinner with friends, now feeling suitably restored this morning that I think I can dare going on the walk (its 11km but mostly on firetrails so shouldn't be too hard).

    Julie: How are you going - hope you are able to a void D& C and are felling better.

    Have a great Sunday everyone,

    Sara

  18. #72
    Registered User

    Jan 2005
    1,271

    Sara, I hope you are gaining your strength now and got over those unpleasant bleeding...

    sorry I have been away, with mum is here, life is quite busy but in a nice way.

    Went to see FS last Thursday with my long list of immunological testings, he is really nice about it and had no trouble to get me tested. He also brought the fibroids issue up again, yuk. So I guess I can't turn a blind eye on it anymore and he says will do endometrum biopsy when I schedule in my surgery. We also plan to try a flare cycle for May/June before the surgery as a last chance. Then I will have to take 3 months break after the surgery, this year is almost gone...:-(

    I went for the dreaded b/t last Friday, 15 vials of blood, lucky I was lying down when blood was taken. The lady who did it was very kind and that reminded me that I need to write her a 'thank you' card. I am so reliefed that its been done now...regardless what result it is, I will hopefully have an answer.

    Now just waiting for result, she said my Doc will get it Mon/Tue, so a bit anxious....

    Also seeing Dr. Sacks on Tuesday, hopefully with the results and seeking second opinion. Then I will deciding what I will do for the next cycle.

    hope everyone else had a lovely weekend, I need to catch up on some personals soon....

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