My DD 'talks back' and I am happy about it!!

[Sopdet]

I agree with N2L. There is a time and a way for raising issues. Also respect is paramount with how you deal with things.

I was one of those questioning kids and sometimes I had to suck it up with a response from one of my parentals of "that is just the way it is" and yes sometimes I pushed it to far and ended up with a smack. I also knew my dad's work number from a very young age and if mum did something I didn't agree with he got called (yes I had dragged him out of board meetings a few times - but it was a family run business so the partners understood because their kids did the same thing).

I was a huge learning curve for the other parental figures in my life (my 2nd set of parents - older brother & sil), and how I was as a child helped them learn how to raise their other children (since they helped raise me, just like I helped raise their kids). My eldest niece was so much like me it wasn't funny, she still is & she had scored children just like the both of us, which is amusing to watch how she deals.

[~clover~]

Thats great that your DD voices her oppinions

But I do agree that I hope when she's 10 its not an issue. Like it is in my house. My DD1 is pretty good at voicing her oppinions too, but she lacks respect most of the time & she refuses to see that as her mother I simply have the right to say no to something without an explanation (which IS my right as her parent!)

[Heaven]

I want to word this so it doesnt come out the wrong way....

I think what can be cute at three or four or five, can be a real problem when they are 10, 13, 16....and beyond.

I agree with Jen that kids need to be able to voice their wants, needs, wishes, hurts, etc in a safe environment. But they need to be respectful and they also need to know that sometimes their wants, needs, etc are secondary to the group's wants, needs, etc. Often in life you just have to do "as you are told" even if you don't like it. You cant complain. You just have to suck it up.

There are a million situations where this is the case, for a million different reasons. I just think there is a balance between raising a child to think independently and raising a child who is going to encounter a lot of problems because they think their opinion or what they want should be the most important consideration for everyone else in the room.

n2l I actually agree with you and I don't think it's opposed to my original post? For sure I want DD to voice her needs in a respectful manner. It doesn't always happen because she's 3 right now so you can imagine, lol, but we encourage that. And there are times when it doesn't matter what she says, well we just have to do something. But I try to always take the time to listen to her. In our house I want my kids to feel that we are all equal. No one is more important that anyone else and what everyone needs matters. So that's what I was happy about iykwim, because I think it showed that she does think that way and is not afraid to speak up.

Sure there are times in life that there's no time for a big discussion and questioning but I think life will teach her that all too soon and she'll be off to school to learn all about it in no time. But at home I have time, and I can listen, and I hope she feels heard and respected and important.

BG- no, I'm enjoying the discussion whichever way it goes!

[Maruschke]

Yeah, that situation would have played out very differently in our home. DD1 is entitled to her opinion, but we are the parents and assert authority over her, so our command overrides her opinions and desires. It isn't military school, she can still talk, but she likely would have been disciplined for not being obedient (and then praised when she was).

It is amazing how vast the perspectives are on parenting.

[Heaven]

Yep very different Marushke!! We try not to even do rewards and punishment here and I don't want to be more powerful than them. So coming from a more unconditional parenting approach.

So I probably sound very strange haha. And I never imagined I'd be this type of parent but it works really well for us.

I just wouldn't see the need to punish her for that though. She was crying because she got hurt but she was just expressing her opinion and telling her dad he wasn't listening and what she was trying to do (which he wasn't btw, he was actually being impatient and frustrated because he was tired lol). She wasn't having a tantrum or getting aggressive or anything, only talking assertively telling him it was not ok to be mean. And all that was ok with me

How it ended was by DH saying sorry for hurting her and explaining why he wanted her to hurry up. Then she said 'ok Daddy I will just take my shoes off by myself next time ok'. Then they cuddled and went off to bed. Good resolution I thought.

[~Kaz~]

Heaven your parenting style sounds similar to mine and/or your DD similar to my DS! He will come and tell me when I have hurt his feelings (usually when I've yelled or used a sharp tone with him). LOL and I LOVE that he does that. Because it pulls me up and helps me to realise that I've become "stressy" mummy who is overly task focused at the expense of our connection. I didn't teach him that line btw, I think his daycare teach the kids to say that with peers but I actually feel really proud of him that he feels he can come and tell me when I've upset him (and vice versa because I'll always tell him when he's getting on my nerves and why ). He has done it a few times now, to both DP and myself.

And FWIW, I agree with lots of the previous discussion as well. It's about teaching kids the respectful or socially appropriate way in all areas of their communication and behaviour and our expectations should change as they grow and develop. I try to always respect DS, even if I can't go along with what he wants (and it happens frequently) in the hopes that he will model this respect towards himself and others as he grows and eventually (hopefully) internalise it.

[Fleur]

Heaven I agree with your OP 100%.

I come from a home in which I was too scared to voice an opinion and I don't want that for my kids. One of my proudest moments as a parent was understanding that when my kids argue with me, it's (in part) because they trust me.

I've encouraged my kids to voice their opinion even if it differs from mine... always politely & respectfully, and that took some work when DD1 was a young teen (13 - 15). But she's 17 now and we have great discussions, she knows that she will be heard even if things don't go her way and that has prevented a lot of melt downs.

As a parent I have on occasion pulled out the 'because I'm Mum, and I said so' card - that's my entitlement and they understand that. But I will do them the courtesy of listening - not only do I think that as small humans, they have this right, to be heard, I also think it teaches them a lot about being assertive and how to negotiate rather than manipulate.

[~clover~]

No, there's no reason to punish her for that. She did nothng wrong, you're right. I wouldn't punish for what your DD did either. A 3 year old needs to learn the boundaries before they can be punished for them anyway.

Its the talking back that you seem to welcome (which to me she wasn't really doing). Talking back, to me, is a child back chatting with disrespect. Your DD was letting your DH know she'd been hurt & that scene would've pretty much played out the same way in my house.

Talking back to me comes with eye rolling. Its not something I will ever take easily, as it is disrespectful. I do wonder how your style of parenting will go when she is a preteen/teen. I'm often one to explain to my kids why they/we can't do something, or why something is the way it is, but sometimes it just isn't something they should know. I shouldn't have to say to DD that we can't afford this or that because ex refuses to give us any money towards the kids. Thats something they shouldn't have to know. But I shouldn't feel the need to explain that either.

I don't know if I could pull it off

[Rouge]

You can have respect and boundaries and still raise your children to be able to speak their feelings.

We have a democracy in this house. And that means I have to respect my children in the same way I would like them to respect us and just as I express my feelings when I am unhappy with the way they act at times they are allowed to do the same.

It doesn't spoil the child, or cause them to be rude or off the rails. Come meet my kids. And tell me it's a parenting fail. I seriously doubt you'll be able to. I'm proud of them. They are people too, good people I might add and I'm proud of how me and DH have raised them.

[Heaven]

Kaz- yes, my DD will do the same! If I am frustrated at her and snap at her she will tell me 'You don't speak to me like that, that was not a very nice voice'. Or she has told me 'it makes me sad when you do that'. And I love that she tells me these things. I love her to tell me if I'm doing something wrong and how it makes her feel because maybe I don't even notice if I'm feeling frustrated and I can apoligise and do better.

Its the talking back that you seem to welcome (which to me she wasn't really doing). Talking back, to me, is a child back chatting with disrespect. Your DD was letting your DH know she'd been hurt & that scene would've pretty much played out the same way in my house.

Maybe I just used the wrong words? Talking back to me in a way that is disrespectful is not on, and I don't talk to them that way either. But telling me how they feel even if it's to disagree with me or tell me that I've done something that they think is wrong is totally ok with me and welcomed.

[Jellyfish]

Parenting is a minefield and there are a million different ways to navigate it, I respect anybodies solution to the challenge but we are similar to you too Heaven! I don't want to force my children to respect me without question, I also don't think it would work well for us and if it did it would be for reasons we're not comfortable with. We model the things we want to see reflected in our children which means showing respect to gain respect and it works well here as my DD1 is really compliant when I don't give options because she has learnt that if I could, I would and if I can give options, I do. And even if we have to disagree and she has to follow what I say in a circumstance despite that, I try to always have the time to listen to her concerns and explain until she is more comfortable. Of course the way she does so is important and we definitely have boundaries on 'fair debate' which includes being respectful and mindful but we just don't see the fact she raises a disagreement in the default position of negative as long as it is done without screaming or insult etc just as we would expect during a disagreement between DP and myself or any other adult.

I think a child's thoughts, feelings and opinions are very real to them so are important to acknowledge. This is how my parents raised me and my brother and we were pretty decent teens (never touched drugs, never been drunk, rang when I was going to be late, was honest about who I was dating etc) so I'm not too worried yet. Of course I had moments of frustration and annoyance, everyone does, even adults do but I love looking back at the way I acted out of respect and not fear, I feel really proud of myself and I want that for my children too. I want them to look back on their choices and decisions and be able to own them instead of feeling like they were forced into complying from negative emotions, threats of punishment, fear or even reward, I don't see any benefit to that and it feels like manipulation rather than teaching to me. I parent in a similar way that I write a novel... the ever famous; show, don't tell. Even now I am really close to my parents, I hope my children will continue to be close with me too; we like to sicken each other with the saying 'family by circumstance, friends by choice' lol.

For what it is worth Clover, I've often told DD we can't get something because we don't have enough money for that at the moment without the need to explain the specifics of why because we try to teach her that money isn't endless, if she asks why then I try to explain where money has been spent lately. My parents did this too and it is one thing I am really thankful for because I feel it gave me a healthy outlook to money, I've never had a credit card or loan or debt because I understand sometimes you have to wait and be patient and save for things, sometimes you cannot afford things because other things take priority and that's a reality of life.

[Heaven]

Gotta spread the love but great post JF, I totally agree.

[*LittleMissSummer*]

Such an interesting thread!

My DD has started to 'talk back' not so much talking as she is still learning her words and sentences and while we only tell her enough is enough when she screeches at us but makes me feel good knowing she isn't afraid of our authority or the way we discipline her and shes comfortable to be herself. She is a very strong willed little girl and often its hard for her to listen to what she doesn't want to hear!

I think as children get older they get a better understanding what is appropriate to say to their parents, and really it comes down to the way every individual parents their children. My DPs family they can say whatever they like, tell MIL to shut up when she is being annoying but if i were to tell my mum to shut up i would have to run for the hills! And it works in their family.

[Rouge]

I always say to my kids. It's not what you say but how you say it. And my kids have learnt how to communicate respectfully this way. And the same goes for me.

[~clover~]

Has anyone found that this doesn't work for all kids? My 2 oldest kids have very different perfferent personalities.

DD1 can be disrespectful, but nothing compared to alot of other kids I've seen & heard. Yet she isn't outside the home. She knows its not acceptabble with her teachers & all other adults etc, she just doesn't seem to think it applies so much to me. I think its her personality. Her father was exactly the same. Though she has alot more respect for me than her father had/has for his mother.

DD2 though, is different. She see's DD1's attitude & tries to copy, but knows its not accepted & doesn't push it nearly as far..

I've seen alot of kids grow up with parents who seem to have raised their kids similar to the way you are, but during their teen years they went through hell with their kids. Above & beyond disrespectful (13 year old telling his mother to shut up & get in the house after she told him not to go driving around with his 21 year old mate at 9pm).

I think some people start out with this approach, but then forget to make sure the respect is going both ways & they lose all control. There needs to still be that line between parents & children.

I dunno, parenting is hard at the best of times

[onthefly]

In my experience, kids talk to us in the same way that we talk to them.

[Jellyfish]

I think a lot of people don't understand the approach and think of it as being a push over or letting the kids run the show and do whatever they want. We definitely still have boundaries here. Who is to say how any form of parenting will work out long term? In the end you just have to do what you feel comfortable with and think will work out for the best based on what you know.

[~clover~]

In my experience, kids talk to us in the same way that we talk to them.

I think they are definetely shown this behaviour. Not always from the person on the recieving end of it though.