Byron Katie/Eckhardt Tolle/Buddhist Philosopy and self responsibility

[Inanna]

Well there was a thread a few weeks back that discussed responsibility for our feelings. I would like to talk about that and hear what others think... There was a suggestion that if we are responsible for our own feelings then it takes away responsibility for being polite.

What do others think?

It's a tricky one hey?

I don't agree. I believe that in being totally responsible for how we feel & how we act we take reaction out of the equation and thus the ego. I also believe that being so self responsible enables me to have MORE empathy for others and more in touch with how another may be feeling.

I have shared before that I am a HUGE follower of Byron Katie (a groupie I would say! ). She suggests that we are responsible for how we choose to feel and thus respond at any given moment.
I also have studied (and continue to do so) Buddhist philosophy & I am also a fan of Eckhardt Tolle... All three philosophies suggest that we are completely responsible for our feelings - very very very challenging at times trust me!

However, for me it fits like a glove & I just "get it"... That is not to say that I don't also struggle with maintaining this as welll...

What do others think?

[Lulliloo]

wow what a great thread.

i would like to think that i could be responsible for my feelings but that is such a hard thing to do always.
i agree that being responsible for our feeling does not mean that we should not be polite and kind. i believe the opposite really. if we can understand how we react to what people say then shouldn't we then realise how people will react to what we say. in an ideal world i think this would be true and there would be a lot of spared feelings.

this is a really interesting topic and im glad that someone has decided to discuss this.

[fionas]

I can see the merit in total responsibility in some situations eg. if someone tells me "you really should get an iPhone" of course I would feel totally responsible for my feelings if I felt angry, aggrieved or whatever because really that situation doesn't matter and if their thoughts upset me it says more about me, than them.

But if DP was on the computer while I was cooking dinner, trying to feed DD, change her nappy and put her to bed and I said, "I feel like you're not pulling your weight" and he responded by saying, "well, you're responsible for your own feelings," then that wouldn't sit well with me. I would think that the responsible thing to do would for us to both talk about our feelings and try to understand the other person's point of view rather than for me (to not say anything thinking I'm totally responsible for my own feelings) and for DP (to brush my feelings aside).

But I don't know anything about the philosophers you've mentioned FC so I should learn more about them before even attempting to respond. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it sounds fantastic in theory and there certainly are merits in that POV but I'm not sure that ANY philosophy fits all situations.

[Inanna]

You see though Fiona "I feel like you're not pulling your weight" - that's not a feeling. The feeling is angry (that he's at the computer), frustrated etc etc... KWIM???

So, if you were to say: "I feel angry when you work at the computer while I organise dinner"... However, it's still your resposibility (accordimg to this philosophy!) how you choose to feel.
We make up arguments about why he is doing it. He is arrogat. He doesn't care about me. He thinks I am a servant...
However, if we can let go of the feeling and watch it... Is it that important???

Maybe the answer is still yes! All coolies...

What if you were to say: "I find it hard to organise dinner and children alone"... "Can we agree on a time after dinner so that you can work on the computer and I will find it easier"... You completely own this as your "problem"... Your husband is fine - he is happy tapping away on the puter while you cook and juggle so making it about him is an energy waster... KWIM

According to Byron we spend so much time justifying our anger/frustration what ever the case may be. If we accept what is and move to improving what is then we have less stress and are more happy!

What do you think?

please please note I am playing devils advocate and making the assumption that we are all happy to gently and kindly debate. If this is not so please tell me - I am NOT criticising or preaching. I have just as much a challenge with this as the next flo!

[Maruschke]

I can see the merit in total responsibility in some situations eg. if someone tells me "you really should get an iPhone" of course I would feel totally responsible for my feelings if I felt angry, aggrieved or whatever because really that situation doesn't matter and if their thoughts upset me it says more about me, than them.

But if DP was on the computer while I was cooking dinner, trying to feed DD, change her nappy and put her to bed and I said, "I feel like you're not pulling your weight" and he responded by saying, "well, you're responsible for your own feelings," then that wouldn't sit well with me. I would think that the responsible thing to do would for us to both talk about our feelings and try to understand the other person's point of view rather than for me (to not say anything thinking I'm totally responsible for my own feelings) and for DP (to brush my feelings aside).

But I don't know anything about the philosophers you've mentioned FC so I should learn more about them before even attempting to respond. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it sounds fantastic in theory and there certainly are merits in that POV but I'm not sure that ANY philosophy fits all situations.

I think the points made in this thread is fantastic. It really is wonderful to be responsible for our own feelings. I think being responsible for our own feelings doesn't mean always sitting back and saying nothing, but speaking (or not speaking) and acting from a position of emotional maturity that is independent of how the other person is treating us. What do you think?

[Inanna]

I think that too Xanthe... I don't think it's allowing abuse though. When we can be an observer of our life & mindful and watchful of reaction... Reaction is always (I believe) from the ego... At least emotional reaction...

It's hard often though hey?

[Maruschke]

I think that too Xanthe... I don't think it's allowing abuse though. When we can be an observer of our life & mindful and watchful of reaction... Reaction is always (I believe) from the ego... At least emotional reaction...

It's hard often though hey?

It is very hard sometimes . Especially when you need to respond quickly, or are frazzled and tired. It requires fast self reflection! And I find this difficult if my day has been one constant rush.

[Lulliloo]

According to Byron we spend so much time justifying our anger/frustration what ever the case may be. If we accept what is and move to improving what is then we have less stress and are more happy!

exactly. we need to look at why we feel, accept it and then work to change it.

[Maruschke]

So, what is it that stops us from doing this?

[Lulu]

I think *we all take ourselves too seriously and don't laugh enough. I believe we sometimes overthink stuff.
Most of the time things are the way they are, just because that's the way they are. I have ceased to stress about why people do things or why the world sucks sometimes. It just IS.
That's certainly not to say I don't give a toss, cos I do. I think acceptance is the path to freedom and laughter is the secret....

just my 10 cents..!

[Inanna]

Wise words from Lulu - I agree down to a t...

[Malyna]

great threat flowerchild.

No comments at the moment, have got a wiggly baby on my lap - but our feelings/emotions are the only thing we truly own.

[Jennifer13]

I am reading Byron Katie atm and it does resonate with some of my own learnings from my life experience. I didn't realise it was a 'philosophy' as such! But I am being educated on how far it can extend.

I remember in my late teens looking at my past (I was abused by my father, went to court and he went to jail) and thinking "I can either let this affect whether or not I trust anyone ever again or I can decide that I don't want to live my life like that and let it go". So I did. Completely. I don't think anyone believes me when I say honestly that I don't have any negative feelings about anything associated with the abuse. I can still hate that everything happened and the way that the whole court system operated on an intellectual level, but I really don't feel it in my heart. And when you take a decision like that about something so big (and I can extend this then to my mother, with whom I had a very difficult relationship with until I just accepted, forgave and rebuilt it), then it tends to carry across to other aspects of your life.

None of the counselling, etc, really made much of an impact at the time on me, it was one small line in a book about memory of which the gist was that many people can experience the same thing (in childhood, like starting school) but it's how we perceive the event to have occurred that affects the way we feel about it and any possible ongoing trauma. And that we have the power to go back and change our perceptions about memory. I know this gets off the track of responsibility, but in some ways I think it completely relates to the fact that we are responsible for even our own memories!

Don't know if that makes any sense, but that's how it happened for me.

[Patooties]

I've just started reading A New Earth, and so i'm really glad you've started this thread Flowerchild. I'm only a few pages in, and already i'm approaching situations in a different manner. I will often see a couple of friends chatting together, and sometimes think 'they're talking about me - saying nasty things". Now when those thoughts enter my head i say to my ego -'get over yourself, you've not done anything to warrant being talked about, and if they are talking about you - that is their issue and it's probably coming from their own egos.
I think i could probably learn alot from you Flowerchild. Will you be my guru???????

[Malyna]

Jennifer13 - I have a similar philosophy - domestic violence for 10 years and had to decide whether I would let it (PTSD) rule the rest of my life or take control of it.

I had trouble with A new Earth - I felt that he was rehashing things that previous authors had discussed. I tend not to stick to any one particular philosophy, but instead let signs in my life show lead me towards what I need... so I've gone through the following texts:

Bhagavad Gita
Caroline Myss - The castle within
St Teresa's books - The maisons (which are really hard to read and you have to be in the zone)
Buddhism - various books Dali Lama
Jack Kornfield - After the estacy the laundry and a path with heart.
Tenzin Palmo - A cave in the snow and reflections on a mountain lake.
What the bleep (the movie)
Cosmology books
Gaia books
A whole stack of spiritual books

Sorry off topic....but for me its a conscious decision and sometimes its a difficult one, and a difficult road to travel at times.

[Bathsheba]

Only just found this section/thread.

Just briefly (my boys are being quite noisy ATM) I'll have to come back later... but essentially I think that much conflict in the world could be resolved if people considered the benefits of taking responsibility for their emotions (which are not always appropriate or helpful). Emotions do not always have lives of their own... you don't have to say "well I can't help how I feel". People often can.... and would be a lot happier if they could. I'm not saying I can always control mine! Like FC I too find it incredibly difficult to always modify my emotions but I aspire to it... because I know that when I do I often feel a lot more at peace with my self and my world. I know, for example, if I didn't choose to avoid hating certain people in my life that that hate would consume me... so for my own sanity I choose a different emotion: hard to explain but it's more like an acceptance of what has happened and an acknowledgement that as awful as what it was it has made me the person who i am today (who due to to the events I think have a lot more empathy for other people than if I hadn't endured them). So due to at least one significant success (in avoiding a life hating = pain) I am very keen to learn more. I'll look into those people you mentioned Deb... thankyou for starting this thread I'll be back!

[Shanti]

Wonderful thread Flowerchild I love these topics.

I too, follow the beliefs/philosophies of the Buddhism teachings. I try very hard to live my life following these beliefs but i'm not very good at it some times, and like everyone, would always like to improve on this. I think it's a lifelong journey in self discovery and I think would take many, many years of practising to get it right too and even then there is always more to learn iykwim.

There is a wonderful quote that relates to this topic of owning your own feelings and that is "Holding onto anger is like grasping onto a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else. You are the one who gets burned." (Gautama Buddha).... how very true this is.

I believe you are giving others the power to own your feelings too when you allow yourself to react or get upset or offended by something they have said either directly said to you or indirectly. WE need to own our own feelings, and hold the power.

I'm currently reading "Buddhism for Mothers" by Sarah Napthali.

I look forward to reading more posts.

[onthefly]

I think liz28 said it very well - self awareness only enhances our empathy for others. I can be responsible for my emotions without riding roughshod over others. Doesn't mean I always do, cause I'm still learning. But sometimes this newfound clarity can help in facilitating better mutual understanding.

The hot coal quote is great, I like that.

Can we control our emotions? I'm not sure. They seem to spring up from somewhere out of our control. Certainly we can claim them as our own, rather than blaming others. And we can control the way we react to them. Maybe we can divert our (bad) emotions and take power away from them.