Hi all. Just a quick one from me as we are heading out for breakfast.
Lan - telling us that you feel angry with the world is not being selfish..it is being honest. I felt incredibly angry after Nathaniel, angry with everyone from my ob, my family and God. It is a very natural part of grieving. I was angry that DH could fall asleep at night whilst I sat there crying and feeling empty. You only lost Hamish in April, so don't feel that you should be 'better' by now. If you want to cry or scream just do it. Have you spoken to a counsellor? I can really recommend SIDS and Kids as they offer a free service and will come to your home. My counsellor lost a baby years ago, but it means she understands the total devastation. Also they offer parent supporters who are people who have gone through a similar loss (I did not use this but it might be a good option). They also run support groups and the one you would be best with is called Hope and Healing. Both DH and I found this to be extremely cathartic (and emotional). Just talking about Nathaniel and how our lives had been affected, actually aided both of us in our healing. I still have bad days and still cry, but I know it is because I will always love my little boy. Be kind to yourself! And congrats on finally confirming the sale of your unit. You have a busy couple of months ahead - moving house and commencing TTC...it will be wonderful!
Okay that is enough from me. I also wanted to thank you all for being so supportive and excited for me. I get such a buzz when I read your messages and I can feel the excitement! It has really helped me accept that I really am almost there and that this little girl has as good a chance as anyone. So thank you, thank you, thank you. After all you have been through, all the heartbreak and hurt, you can still show genuine concern and hope for another person, it is very special. I hope I can continue to offer the same support in return.
just got a call from my Mum, am in a bit of a weird place. My brother's wife is apparently going through a miscarriage at the moment. She was meant to be aroud 12 weeks and started bleeding, so Mum took her to emergency (my brother's away so she's staying at my parents) where they did a scan. They told her she was 6 weeks, which she said she definitely wasn't, as she'd had a dating scan earlier with a H/B which from what it sounds like is now absent. Anyway, she's sad obviously but is dealing with it OK, they have two healthy girls and this is her 1st M/C.
I am a bit shocked at how I feel... I just had a niggling feeling she would be pregnant at the same time as me which I really didn't want. My sister was 4 weeks ahead of me during my first pregnancy and even then I felt her pregnancy overshadowed mine a bit, even when I thought nothing was wrong, and now I have a living relative who'll always remind me how old Edward should have been. I was really hoping that SIL wouldn't be pregnant at the same time, and now I feel sorry for them but can't muster up that much genuine sympathy... it's not like I'm angry at them for getting pregnant, I know they they have to do what's right for them. Family gatherings will be interesting in the future, my sister's daughter will remind me of Edward and my child will remind brother and SIL of their lost child.
I find myself unable to be genuinely 'happy for' other people... a friend who had a boy a week or so after I was due rang and spoke to DH last night, he doesn't even tell me about the baby, I just don't want to know. I find myself angry or something like that that they got pregnant straight away and had an easy pregnancy. Her sister I know has had two abortions just due to falling pregnant accidentally and has gone on to have two gorgeous girls now, and I feel like she's less deserving. It's so silly because I know that nature doesn't care about fairness or morality but still I feel this way. It makes me feel like a horrible person that I can't be happy for them, I'm normally a really sympathetic and feeling person. I feel worse after I told DH about SIL and then said something like 'I knew she'd be pregnant at the same time, which is selfish I know' and he said 'that is selfish'.
I can't help how I feel, up until now I haven't felt too guilty but I'm really now starting to wonder if this will ever change. I think this is part of the reason I don't want to engage with family and friends, particularly the ones with kids because that way I can keep these unpleasant feelings hidden from them.
Anyway, for now I'm glad I haven't announced the pregnancy to the rest of the family, now seems like a bad time.
I'm struggling to wrestle with these disturbing feelings, and what's even more worrying is if we had another loss I don't know if I could come back from them. Sorry to be all about me for a while, I'd appreciate advice from anyone who's felt something similar.
Oh Rozzie big. First of all, you are not really being selfish at all, you have these feelings because you have been through a nightmare! I can understand where you are coming from I have a bit of a similar but different version. My cousin and I are very close, she has a DD 9 months older than Corey, when we decided to have a 2nd baby, so did they, which was great. We fell pregnant after the 3rd cycle and I just assumed she would fall soon too, well nature hasn't been great with her and it just wasn't happening, whereas I went along happily on my way until horror struck us down. She was a great support for me and when we started to try again we thought this was our chance to do it 'together' again. I couldn't help but be a little nervous when each cycle rolled around wondering how I would cope if she got pregnant before me, this is where I battled selfishness thinking how could I NOT be happy for her she has been trying so much longer than me! I got very defensive at her one day when she said to me that 'you get pregnant so easily, I just want to get pregnant' and which I replied back to tell her 'this is the 4th time I have been pregnant, yes, but I only have one child so far!' I felt like telling her off for comparing her 'hardship' with mine, when in reality I should have been grateful for the fact that at least I am pregnant she is now about to start IVF and needs my support. So Rozzie I guess what I am trying to say is we all have our armour around us that tries to protect us and that includes sometimes being a little 'selfish'. The reminders will always be there for Edward some harder than others, but it is good they are there to remind us of our much loved babies.
I identify with everything you guys are feeling, I definitely do. I have days where I'm very angry, and while you describe being angry at Hamish for leaving you, Lan, I get angry at Kebab for surviving and "taking Beiron's place". It may seem crazy, but I think it's all an expression of how I wanted something terribly and, in a sense, I will never, ever have it. I wanted to be happy about being pregnant and have other people be happy for me; instead I'm worried constantly and other people are never sure how to act.
So I have the same kinds of feeling that Rozzie has as well. With Beiron we waited to tell people until after week 12 and the first ultrasound, just like you're "supposed" to. That means everyone was surprised because no one knew we were trying. So everyone was excited and happy for us and jumping for joy. But this time? There's a really sad feeling of "been there, done that" when we talk to people about it. They're now trying to identify (and either succeeding or failing) with a woman who's going through a struggle rather than being happy for a woman who's glowing and growing a little bouncy baby. The little bouncy baby is, in fact, far from everyone's thoughts -- farthest from mine -- because all the focus is on not getting our hopes up and on getting to the next week of the pregnancy.
So a friend of mine who is 6 months pregnant right now, it's pretty tough for me to see her. She got pregnant in April, meaning they were trying while I was pregnant with Beiron and succeeded in getting pregnant after they knew I was pregnant. That upsets me for plenty of crazy-sounded reasons, but I'd like to think that all my feelings are valid. She KNEW I was pregnant when she got pregnant! And now she'll have a baby before me, which is so unfair because I was "supposed to" have a baby before her! And I get the distinct feeling when I'm with her that she's "stealing my thunder". It's "my turn" -- with Beiron, three of our friends were pregnant at the same time and have their lovely little babies now, and now it feels like my turn for people to be ooing and aahing over me (which, as stated, they're not, because they're cautious) and now I sometimes feel like this new pregnant friend is stealing my thunder. In reality, when we're together, it's probably the other way around... I probably complain enough about how my pregnancy is going and how scared I am that hers is written off as "just normal" and pushed aside.
I would have been SERIOUSLY upset (though afraid to express it even to DH) if anyone close to me became pregnant at the same time as me right now. I would have in my pessimism and worry assumed that I'd miscarry and that she would go on to have healthy baby and that that would forever haunt me, not to mention driving me away from yet another female friend whose situation was tough for me to participate in because of my grief. I'd compare myself to her constantly -- symptoms, complications or lack thereof -- so even if we both succeeded I'd be angry that the universe gave her a baby "easily" and made it rough for me.
If I told DH about all of these feelings, and I'm sure we've discussed some of them, he might very well also agree with me that the feelings are selfish. But I don't think he'd mean that I should be ashamed for having them. Sometimes, selfishness is perfectly normal and even good. Imagine Rozzie if we tweak the circumstance a tiny bit -- if you SAID to her that you were GLAD that she lost her baby and felt ZERO guilt for having those feelings... not until then should you be the least bit ashamed of how you feel, and I know that that's not quite how you're feeling and that you're not that person.
Helen, I've also gotten irritated with people who compare their situations to mine, and I feel quite entitled to that irritation. My MIL, who I love, kept telling me about her friend's son, whose wife hasn't been able to get pregnant after 14 years of trying and exhausting all known medical techniques. She would end by saying "At least you can get pregnant" or even telling me that her friend said that. "At least Lori can get pregnant." I eventually had to get up the guts to tell her to please stop saying that to me, because while this other couple is going through a hardship that I am not, they also have never been through what I have, and I didn't think it was fair to either of us to compare, as if weighing on a scale. Same with my friend who had a hard time getting pregnant and had a miscarriage in week 8 the first time. Now she has her baby and has a tendency to treat me like she knows exactly how I feel and almost like I'm being whiney because my situation isn't as "difficult" as hers because I fall pregnant so easily and I should "know" things will work out for me, because it worked for her! I feel angry because they trivialize the death of my child by acting like it's merely a matter of replacing him with another. I don't want them to think my situation is worse than theirs, I just want them to stop telling me it's better than theirs. The measure of a hardship is always in how deeply the individual feels about it, and never in how it compares to what other people have been through. What I'm trying to say, Helen, is that I recognize the feelings you described when you felt your friend was comparing your situations, and I admire the fact that you want to be there to support her with her IVF. I admit that I don't know if I would be able to fully empathize with my friend right now if she was once again TTC and had to jump through hoops just to get pregnant. I would feel the same kind of "It'll work eventually, stop whining, you have one baby already, right?" towards her that she seems to feel towards me!
This is why my feelings for you guys are completely different from my feelings for random pregnant lady on the street, and I can say how I feel here in a way that I can't always to DH and MIL and SIL. Everyone here has been through a lot of pain, and not a single one of you has ever trivialized my feelings, no matter how silly they may seem to me in a rear-view mirror or how small in comparison to what you've been through.
I wrote a really long reply and lost it!!! devastated!!! but I will say thanks to Tildy and Helen, you're both so insightful and helpful. I will try and type my reply again a bit later.
hi guys!
where do i start!
Tildy -i agree with you...my feelings towards people in here and getting pregnant are so different to those outside it. The friend that i have gotton quite upset over seeing her pregnant belly - she will be my reminder of what i have lost a 2nd time. And i want to be happy for her because she did lose a baby at 10 weeks when i lost Jack but right now my emotions over losing Jack and Madison for no apparent reason,are blurring that line. And i feel, angry, guilty upset and all those things you guys have mentioned. But then a reg customer came in the other day who i love seeing and she had a belly and i had no idea she was preg! (go figure how we missed that topic of conversation!) She had 19 days to go and i was so genuinely excited for her. So on the one hand i am avoiding one persons belly and on the other inviting someone back in to show their baby! I also had thurs and fri my manager gushing about her sister just having her baby... even grabbing her mobile phone to proudly show me a photo. And asking advice on what sort of baby presie to buy. It took everything i had to fight back the tears and pretend to share in her excitment. I felt gutted! All i wanted to do was tell her to stop talking about her (the baby was a girl) and i could'nt. She was amazingly supportive with both angel babies but i don't think for a second in her excitment knew how devastating it was to keep talking about it in detail. It was another one of those moments where we place ourselves / emotions aside to be there for others.
Ems 4th b'day party is tomorrow so i will be seeing my MIL like i said, for the first time since i lost Madison. I REALLY hope she does'nt bring anything up.She cares but does'nt think about appropriateness enough! we already had a bad day involving my BIL & SIL as they did'nt recieve their invite to ems party and dan told them it was sunday etc. I wrote them an email and accidently wrote the wrong date (sats date) but in their reply they wrote see you sunday etc and i wrote back see you sunday again also. We got an angry phone call 10.30 this morning going where are you as they were there. they said you told us sunday 11th and dan said yes, sunday and they said but its the 11th today and dan said you knew it was on the sunday. So they basically hung up on him and said to enjoy our day sunday as they "had other plans". GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! So in my horrible emotional state this week i screwed up and boy will we hear about it going forward!
The kids asked today if i could bring home a "big baby". I asked what they meant and josh just said "you know, a big baby". I said do you want mum to have another baby and they both said yes. So obviously their brother and sister are still very much in their thoughts, more than i realise!
anyway - i am quite happy we have all had some selfish posts! we need them sometimes! its a good healthy release! I am forever grateful for stumbling across this site and meeting you girls!Thankfully we CAN say whatever we want and always feel supported!
take care all you preggo girls!
to us preggo-to-bes -take care too!
x jo
Jo, that is so cute about "big babies". Did your kids see either Madison or Jack? Or they just knew that their baby brother and sister were born too soon? Gives me nice shivers to think of such young children being able to comprehend two such devastating losses and still have hope for a "big baby". They could teach us a thing or two!
I gave my niece a CD called The First Little Angels on Earth to try to sort of explain why Hamish left us. She asked DH if there are birthdays in heaven and we both wanted to cry.
Rozzie, Helen, Jo and Tildy, I'm glad we can talk about such feelings. For a while every time I heard about someone getting pregnant, I just assumed that the baby would die eventually. Or if I heard of someone having an early miscarriage I felt that they weren't entitled to as much grief as I am. I was so scared of my own feelings and didn't even dare to tell you guys. So I'm really glad that you raised it Rozzie and we counsel each other.
I don't think any of us are evil or selfish (OK, sometimes I really am!), these must be another expression of our loss and a way to protect our feelings. I hate that we can't all just sit around fatly complaining about normal pregnancy things but I am super grateful that we can share even our darkest thoughts.
I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse Rozzie, but when I saw your little bump and thought of your due date in April, I felt SO excited at that prospect of being pregnant again, at the hope that a pregnancy brings even though for us it will always be accompanied by at times crippling fear, and at the promise of a big fat crying baby, at last. And every time you and Tildy talk about heartbeats, Sue and her little bean's u/s and Katie's wonder girl kicking her way closer and closer to birth, I collect more little pieces of hope and stash them away in my Green Eggs box.
Green Eggs? Well, we nicknamed Hamish "Ham" even more we got pregnant and still call him that to this day so we've started calling our next pregnancy Green Eggs in anticipation because David is a Dr Suess fan and frankly we're very silly :-)
Katie, thank you for your understanding and concern. Your post was a good as hug. I tried the SIDs people once but I prefer you guys and my various "hippy" therapists :-)
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