Thanks for your support ladies I think it's just the unknown of what could happen either way that kinda freaks me out. Maybe as you said Miss Dee I should just keep my mouth shut about the birth, by the time the baby comes they will be too wrapped up in it to ask me how it came out. Onyx - funny you should mention thank god for modern medicine, I would have been in the same boat as you, without the epidural to relax me and allow me to fully dilate I think both DS and I would have died...there was no way he was coming out otherwise...sad to think of what could have been if some of us had given birth 100 years ago!