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Thread: Can I bag out other sites??

  1. #19

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    I think what's really sad about all of this is that these things are all said so that babies sleep better so that life is more convenient for us. I'm not sure whether I feel more sadness or anger when I hear women talking about how their lives won't change, that baby will fit in with them etc etc. Why bother having a child - just buy a new handbag! My DD has completely turned my world upside down. I have faint memories of the person I used to be and the life I used to lead. I had my last ever brunch with a girlfriend with my DD last week because she is just too active now to happily sit in the pram and listen to us gossip for a few hours. And you know what. I love it. Its a privilege to have a child, not a right, and my job is to make her feel like the most safe, secure and loved creature on this planet. If she takes longer to settle at night because we're having beautiful cuddles and staring at each other with loving expressions and trust, then I think I am the luckiest woman in the world.


  2. #20

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    Even the sleep school I went to who, let's face it, haven't had the best reputation for gentle methods in the past told me the no eye contact thing was total crap and completely unnatural.

  3. #21

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    a little OT, but are we going ot be seeing BB ads on TV...there seems to be a particular nappy brand advertsiing their site and its a little disconcerting that all these women will automoatically go there and get bonbarded with ads for more chemicals and "no contact" sleep solutions to smother their children in...

    Do we have bumper stickerS??

  4. #22

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    God Ive never heard of such a thing. I could never never use that with tiny bubbas...seems so darn cruel.

    Jo

  5. #23

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    I think no eye contact is a load of bull! I don't think there was a single second that i did not look inot my sons eyes when he was tiny, feeding at my breast and dozing off to sleep in my arms, i even did damage to my nec from constantly looking down at him all the time LOL! Even now we stare into each others eyes before we drift off.

    I agree with other posters who have mentioned that advice like this is used to make a baby fit into our lives without upsetting our wants too much.

    Ren, i agree that we may be raising an unconnected generation, but, then again, my mothers generation all seemed to go by routines and 4 hourly feeds and all those silly rules, so are we a disconnected society?? Probably.

  6. #24

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    I think it comes back to the issue of dictating what must be done rather than giving suggestions and explaining why a certain technique may work for some babies. I mean, come on, holding is for feeding, floor is for play, cot is for sleep - what a load of prescriptive nonsense!

    We have to do a 'no eye contact' thing with E, otherwise he just won't go to sleep - he'd play all night. But I'm not very good at it LOL. He is nearly five months old though, and doesn't get distressed at all by the lack of eye contact, in fact, he seems to prefer it at sleep time. When we wrap him up for sleep, my DP and I lie on either side of him on the bed, but with our heads higher up the bed than his so he's not in our direct line of sight. He'll turn his head up at us and grin, and I can't help smiling back at him. After a minute of us grinning inanely at each other I'll give him a kiss, tell him that it's sleep-time and lie there with him with my eyes shut until one of us falls asleep. (Usually me first!)

    But this is what is working for us at the moment based on our instinct and what E wants - we've also carried, rocked and fed him to sleep depending on what works best at the time.

  7. #25

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    it's scarey how much of this 'bulls&&t' is actually out there and parents are doing it. it does make me quite upset sometimes when i hear and see some of the stuff that goes on....
    Last edited by Ginger; May 1st, 2008 at 09:08 AM.

  8. #26

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    This makes me so angry! I wont judge parents as being sleep deprived can make you crazy and you will try anything, but we should have more information on hand for women so they dont feel pressured into sleep training and cruel techniques! We must be reassured that following our instincts is the right way, not that of some book!
    so many sites play on the sleep training so parents can get their lives back! Im sorry you have a child and they need you more than you need time as an adult! They will only be little and vulnerable for such a short time! We must cherish and love our babies not look away and ignore them!

    Long live loving natural parenting!!!!! I dont mean to offend anyone its just how i feel!

  9. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomba View Post
    I wont judge parents as being sleep deprived can make you crazy and you will try anything, but we should have more information on hand for women so they dont feel pressured into sleep training and cruel techniques!
    This is exactly why it upsets me. Goodness knows we all need straight forward help when we're sleep deprived and many parents will try these techniques out of concern for their baby not sleeping- not simply a wish for more sleep themselves IYKWIM. It just bothers me that these strategies are constantly promoted when there is no proven basis for them.

  10. #28

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    I don't think its that big an issue in regards to sites like that gaining and retaining members, because if you joined and didnt like what you saw or that it just didn't resonate with how you feel about parenting, you would just leave and find somewhere that you did like (like BellyBelly for example )

    But in terms of totally confusing the heck out of new parents, who may not have had any experience with newborns/babies, then yes, it is disconcerting that this type of information is out there and is presented as THE ONLY way to parent your child. And when that info is trotted out my a well-known brand of infant products, you're are going to end up quite conflicted with what your head and your heart are telling you.

    As for my experience with the eye contact thing, I have found that if I was having a rough night with any of them, then if I just sat and held them and closed my eyes, that seemed to work, but I think mainly because it had a calming effect - they could see that I was calm and if I opened my eyes, more often than not their eyes would be closed too - not necessarily asleep, but quiet and relaxed.

  11. #29

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    Looks as if im the only one that thinks the advice that is given on other sites IS helpful.

    I guess at the end of the day we do what is right for us personally. We all parent differently to each other.

    If i hadnt done as advised who knows what my girls would be like now...so i thank sites and advice given by CHN and hospital staff highly.

    Also just to add.....the sites are there for advice...its up to people to choose whether they take it or not....so i think putting them down isnt the best thing to do. All have different opinions.

  12. #30

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    Kimbaz, that's just it - you can take it or leave it if you read something that you don't necessarily agree with, but it's just that there are so many like minded people here on this site who subscribe to a different way of parenting to what is on this particular site, thats all - there is no right of wrong way to do it. No one was making any reference to what anyone else does, or chooses to take from these sites, and if you do find something that is beneficial to you, then you would be silly not to use it.
    Last edited by Trillian; April 19th, 2008 at 06:33 PM. Reason: spelling

  13. #31

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    I have no problem with the difference of opinions and options, I do take issue with such well known and"trusted" companies proclaiming THE way to do things, without offering alternatives, etc... As I feel that whilst there are women out there who will "just leave" if they dont agree with it, mny wont. Expecially younger parents. There are too many out there that will raise issues with it and get told "yes this is the way to do it."
    It just seems to me that it needs to be a two-way street in terms of communication and advocacy between the two "styles" of parntenting.
    IYKWIM. lol.

  14. #32
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    I had known for a long time before i had children that small babies were very stimulated by eye contact. It's part of the initial bonding process when they are born, those few hours after birth when they are very alert and will gaze into your eyes, learn to recognise your voice, your scent, your face etc. For us this is a lovely time too, but think of how intense and alert it felt, many many women who had even quite hard births talk of staying up all night looking at their newborn. That's similar to the baby's experience but it doesn't wear off so fast as it does for us. They get kind of sleepy with just a few brief snatches of this alertness each day for the next few weeks while they do some growing, but for those early weeks eye contact IS very stimulating for them. Some babies find it so intense (i've seen videos of this) they cannot break eye contact once it's made. I've seen a video of a loving mother gazing into the eyes of a 3 week old baby as she cuddles him until he is crying and crying because it is so full-on and he is so tired by it.

    I understand what people are saying about it seeming callous or unkind, but this is not about NEVER giving your child eye-contact, it's about allowing them the peace to settle when they're tired. Looking into the eyes of an over-stimulated, exhausted newborn is like playing loud music to them except worse because they can ignore loud music but their mother's expressions and responses are SO important to them that they cannot "risk" going to sleep then - it's a biolgical drive. If you look at any other mammals the offspring know they're safe and secure when mum is close by but NOT looking at them - the looks communicate and the most important communication in the early days is danger, thus everything is run through the danger filter before being analysed further by the newborn's brain.

    When my DD was little and needed to sleep i didn't give her eye contact. I cuddled her into the wrap and went about my day as if she wasn't there. Safe in the knowledge that i was close and that nothing important enough for me to tell her about it with a look into her eyes, she fell asleep peacefully. She has always been a good sleeper, i still communicate to her with my bodylanguage and by giving or not giving eye contact. Whose mother didn't give them "the look" when they were in trouble? Eye contact says ALOT more than just "i love you" and a newborn has not learned the language yet. It makes sense that continuous eye contact is too much for them.

    What is appropriate for adults isn't always appropriate for newborns and littlies. The most calming colours for adults to be surrounded by are green and blue. For newborns the most soothing colour is red, because that is what their brain has seen (light onto belly when in the womb). They have done studies where childcare rooms painted red actually have calmer kids but most don't do it because PARENTS think it looks too intense and won't send their kids there.

    It is not going to harm a child not having eye contact during the night. It is not the same as never giving them eye contact.

  15. #33

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    Ok..i agree some parents...dont just put young parents in one category....any age parents might see the advice and think 'Yep thats what i have to do'. But i dont just take the first advice given and think thats the end. i still go and ask for other advice...try it, if it doesnt work go searching again til i find what works best.

    Theres so many different views on every aspect of raising kids these days. As Trillian said...there is no right or wrong way. But it comes across that we must all do the same thing with our kids.

    Must have eye contact
    Must not let our kids cry for more then 10 seconds
    Must give solids 6 months
    Must BF (so it seems to me)
    Must hold our babies
    Must do this and that....

    Dont FF
    Dont let you baby cry
    Dont give you child solids until 6 months cos thats what WHO says
    Dont turn your baby seat before 8kg/6 month

  16. #34

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    I don't think anyone thinks eye-contact means intently staring in your child's eyes as you're trying to put them to sleep, though by some accounts this works too. But it felt unnatural to me to not look at my baby when he was young, and for the most part, he didn't focus on me when he was truly tiny. But I did not avoid eye contact, and I can't say that he ever seemed over stimulated by me when I attended to him at nights, even when he eventually got to an age where he was looking back into my face. The connection between us felt bonding, and not disruptive, and I don't accept that my loving gaze was the same as loud music to him.

    TBH I'd never even heard of avoiding eye contact until recently, so of course it would not have been something I would have naturally done, even with my older kids. I admit, Charlie was a frequent waker, but putting him back to sleep was never a problem, even with me looking at him all doe eyed. That's what felt right to me, and worked for me too. I don't think I could have not looked at him - the one thing I loved about those night feeds was that it gave me the chance to hold him close and look at him. I believe this was part of our bonding process, and promoted secure attachment. I think avoiding eye contact, even at night, is something I would not feel comfortable about, and I tend to parent in a way that is instinctive for me. As for Charlie, he now self settles and is a great sleeper too, so I'm pretty happy all round.
    Last edited by sushee; April 19th, 2008 at 06:52 PM.

  17. #35

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    When I say that there is no right or wrong way to do it, I don't mean that to let a child cry itself to sleep is OK (and I mean really cry, not just protest cries), if that's the parenting ideal you subscribe to (*you* being the generic), because if you do, you aren't addressing the needs of the child by doing it, so sometimes there is a wrong way kwim? And a lot of what you've listed Kimbaz is actually recommended on the back of some strong evidence to suggest that this is the way to do things - again, not necessarily the right way, but an alternative way if you need it.

  18. #36

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    is actually recommended on the back of some strong evidence to suggest that this is the way to do things
    I would be interested to know how many have actually read this research??

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