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Thread: Can I bag out other sites??

  1. #55

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    It's also hard when one book, one author or one website (not this one!) decides there is ONE way to go and stubbornly sticks to it. Follow the rules and you will get this outcome.....just follow the RULES.

    I wish they would all have the foresight to say "if this technique is not working for you or is upsetting for you, maybe you can try something else".....etc. But of course they dont, because "they" want to have the answer and make a lotta $$$


  2. #56

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    You've hit the nail on the head there Lulu - much more money in - 'make your baby sleep from 7 to 7' than, 'here's a few things that could help your baby sleep'....
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team and many wonderful members who have been so supportive since 2003.

  3. #57
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    It's funny isn't it how much more willing people are to pay for something with contravenes all common sense (like a creature (i.e. a newborn) with a stomach the size of a walnut going 12 hours without food being healthy/normal/good!) than just accept reality!? Modern life and the removal of the "nasty" truths from in front of our eyes has ALOT to answer for!

    Bx

  4. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulu2 View Post
    It's also hard when one book, one author or one website (not this one!) decides there is ONE way to go and stubbornly sticks to it. Follow the rules and you will get this outcome.....just follow the RULES.
    True, especially when the advice ignores other factors, such as possible illness, food intolerances, allergies etc To me it is cruel not to eliminate those factors first. As adults we would not insist on making ourselves go to sleep with a tummy ache, so why do some people think we should do it to our babies?

  5. #59

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    http://bellybelly.com.au/forums/pare...d-mothers.html

    I think we need to remember that there's a fine line between bagging out other sites and bagging out other Mums

  6. #60

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    I think we need to remember that there's a fine line between bagging out other sites and bagging out other Mums

  7. #61

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    I wasn't bagging out other Mums... the thought didn't even cross my mind when I started this.

    I'm obviously still too fragile for all this at the moment.

  8. #62

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    Interesting thread.

    Generally, when i seek advice I am more likley to heed it if the person giving it, or the "expert" prefaces it with "trust your OWN instincts but you might like to try.....". I think the thing that is missing in some other sites is the reinforcing of the message that we need to and can trust our instincts when it comes to being mothers and parents. I examine advice and think to myself: "is this aimed at helping the parent or the child?" Which way is it weighted? To me a lot of advice these days leans toward improving the convenience-factor for the parent. Just a general observation. Regarding the eye-contact thing: great posts Hoobley I agree that what is right for a newborn is not necessarily right for an adult and visa versa. I tend to settle my babies in dark quiet rooms while BF or with their heads snuggled up into the curve of my neck or in bed with me or wearing them in a carrier. In those positions it's not easy to make eye contact anyhow. If my baby is crying then I often hold them close with them against my shoulder... patting their backs and rocking... with them facing the other way... not conducive to eye contact. I don't deliberatley avoid it... but it doesn't come naturally for me to follow their gaze during settling times... mainly because it's too dark! But that's just me. And all i'd suggest is to just do what feels right. Sure read advice and take on board what you think might help... but at the end of the day I think, you're more likely to have success if you trust in your own intuition. Children, especially babies, pick up on a sense of confidence within you... if you cultivate that then that alone will be soothing.

  9. #63

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    Ren, I wasn't suggesting that you were trying to bag out other Mums and I know that you only posted with the best of intentions.
    I only posted in a pre-empive way. There was no agenda or sub-text in my post; I just wanted to remind everyone that it's easy to slip over the line from dissing the people who hand out the crazy to advice to dissing the Mums who follow it. I did so in the hopes that no-one would go there not to suggest that anyone was doing so already.

  10. #64

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    Sorry OT

    Bec, I can't say in any of the articles I've read directly relating to attachment theory, that 'sentimental' parenting was a variable. Of course I haven't read everything published on the subject, but just within the scope of my searches on 'attachment' or 'attachment theory', I can't say I've ever seen it come up.

    But I'm keen to add new dimensions to my reading, so if you could point me in the direction of the articles/book/journals where sentimental parenting relates to attachment theory, I'd be grateful. The more I read on the subject, the more my understanding grows, and that can only mean good things, esp with regards to my study.

    Back to topic, I agree that part of the problem is the attitude of 'you must' do something. Healthy debate on parenting is a great thing, it makes you look at all sides of the picture. But in the end, you're the parent, and whether publicly declaring it or not, you're going to do what works for you. The best you can do is ensure that you have the knowledge to make the best decision for your baby.

    Bath, I agree with you that rocking and carrying your baby over your shoulder are natural things to do, and in the dark it's not easy to make eye contact, but I think it's the un-naturalness of saying you shouldn't make eye contact at all at night that doesn't sit well with me (and I assume it's what the topic was about to begin with), and the instructional way it's given out to all and sundry without deference to the differences within families and children. It's not a natural thing to do for me, and tbh not following such a 'rule' worked for my family, not just Charlie but for all my kids.

    And therein lies my point, I can't not look at my child, and I don't get the whole 'avoid eye contact' thing, and if I were a new parent and read that webpage, I may have thought I was doing something wrong, and behaved in a way that was contrary to my natural instincts.

    So I guess what I'm trying to say is, there is a lot of information out there, not all good, and a lot of it feeds off the insecurities of the parent. As parents though, we must feel empowered to make our choices and believe in them. When you do, no one will be able to tell you you're doing it wrong, because you will know you've done what was best for your family. For Bec, one way worked, and for me, another way worked, and that's the way it should be, because we have different children, cultures, lives. All the opposing sides should be seen as a way to inform yourself, and if we all could take these 'musts' and see them for what they are, which is advice, sometimes based on science, sometimes based on experience, sometimes based on selling a product, and weigh them for ourselves, then we're making the best possible decision each time.

  11. #65

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    The advice was that holding is for feeding, floor is for play and cot is for sleep.
    Wow, that is harsh

    Personally I have cuddled both my boys to sleep and LOVE cuddling them while they snooze, but at the same time have put them to bed in their own cot (in our room) and do not baby-wear. Why do these sorts of sites have to polarise parenting so much? Its not like you have to do EVERYTHING that gentle parenting might suggest (such as co-sleeping) but why can't these pro-detatched parenting sites take a little from other ways of doing things?

  12. #66

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    Rory, I agree.

    Why does there have to be a particular 'school of parenting' that a mummy fits into?

    I am like a magpie: I pick and chose the concepts I like from all sorts of avenues of advice.

    I am also a firm believer on being gentle on all other Mums, as well as gentle with my children........

  13. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy View Post
    I am also a firm believer on being gentle on all other Mums, as well as gentle with my children........
    So true- I agree. That is why it bothered me so much that this site was so firm in it's directions, many of which go against a mother's instincts. Such as giving you the impression that if you let your baby fall asleep in your arms just once then problems will occur. I feel so sad for women that the instinct of mothering is being questioned and women are left questioning themselves and feeling like failures rather than feeling empowered.

  14. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy View Post
    Rory, I agree.

    Why does there have to be a particular 'school of parenting' that a mummy fits into?

    I am like a magpie: I pick and chose the concepts I like from all sorts of avenues of advice.

    I am also a firm believer on being gentle on all other Mums, as well as gentle with my children........
    I completely agree. I don't like the lables given to parents....gentle parent, attatchment parent etc. It makes one feel judged if not conforming to the entire ethos. It gives parents a heck of a lot to live up to. I don't like any concept which states categorically that one way is the absolute right way to do it.

    Eye contact limitations in the middle of the night might work for some and not for others. To say that it's horrible or cruel is harsh. Some babies get overstimulated by it, some babies need to look into their mothers eyes to fall asleep. That is why parents need to follow their instincts with parenting.

    How bad would it be for a mother to read comments about how cruel it is to not give eye contact at night and go against her instincts which are telling her that her baby just doesn't settle at night being overstimulated? Less sleep all around and teaching Mum to ignore her instincts.

    I think that as long as parents have the best interest of the child at heart, are listening to themselves first and advice second, they are wonderful parents, regardless of where they *technically* fall in the world of lables.

    JMO of course .

  15. #69

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    Yes! Here Here River! perfectly said as usual! Exactly what I was attempting to say in my post.

    ETA: dang gotta share the love matey, I'll come back and give the Rep when I can!

  16. #70

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    I think this thread has been blown waaaaaay out of proportion and has been over analysed. I've nearly wished for the ignore button!!!

    I guess we do have to watch our language (sometimes what we mean comes out wrong language wise), but at the same time I understand what the OP meant. And it is terrible for a site to be advocating one thing... it should have said, 'some mothers find xxx works and some mothers find xxx works.' There are too many sites that say don't give eye contact or don't cuddle your baby or don't whatever, like the govt website that says, hey its okay if your baby vomits during controlled crying, just dont make a fuss, change it and continue on...

    I think this is what the thread was all about and I am sure that everyone who posted meant exactly that - it is not nice to tell mothers to do things one way which a mother may take the wrong way as being 'THE' way to do it and end up with a disconnected baby. I know I persisted with CC with my daughter even after two or three weeks after I thought it wasn't working because I thought it was 'THE' way to do it and the only way I would get sleep (when it worked).

    So can we not all be so techincal now?! Yes be careful of language and how you imply others as opposed to other sites or routines but at the same time it is okay to discuss this - what worked for you, what didn't and yes it's inappropriate to to tell mums one way fits all.

    Moving on? Please?
    Kelly xx

    Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team and many wonderful members who have been so supportive since 2003.

  17. #71

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    And the voice of reason shines through! lol

  18. #72

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    I am enjoying this thread, I think that open discussions about topics like this are good to help everyone realise their own parenting positions.....from time to time LOL, repetitively doing so would be tiresome. It also helps people realise that advice is advice and not judgements or orders. It helps mothers gain strength in their instincts and ability to parent. It helps parents realise that even within an ethos, there are many people who do varied things.

    I think the government sites need to stop taking a 'tell em what to do' stance and start giving generalised advice rather than parenting 'instructions'. I think that the first line in any topic on 'how to' parenting issues should be "take all advice under consideration and choose what works for you and your family".

    As for the government sites content, I think that for a government who is struggling to fight the wave of child abuse in our community it is weird that they advocate harsh parenting methods ONLY from the get-go. Sends a message that parents need to be dismissive from the start I reakon, regardless of whether or not those methods are warranted in your situation, some babies thrive with a firmer hand, others wither. Can't they see that if a parent can let a wee bub vomit themselves to sleep from birth, what could they let that child do (or do to them) when they are older? They should be advocating a nurturing community and see if that helps family bonding later down the track. Yes some of their methods might be perfect for some situations, but they are pretty much telling everyone that this is 'normal' for parenting!
    Last edited by River; April 21st, 2008 at 11:51 AM.

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