Pressure to Have the "Perfect Birth"

[Smoke Jaguar]

To burst a bubble - of course doctors have more than just your best interests at heart! They have time schedules, hospital policies, Medicare, AMA agenda to consider in what they do, don't kid yourself! I'm not saying they are bad - they definitely have their place in births that present complications (complications that are not induced by the system itself, that is, as well as complications generated by medicalisation), I'm just saying that they are not independent entities in white armour seeking to make every birth trouble free. OB's are trained for complications - they don't need to see women who are free of complications because those women don't need their skills
It doesn't really matter how long you've been waiting to have a baby, every mother I know wants the best for their child. Because I very much wanted my baby, I was not going to go along with what someone in a white coat or a list of medical qualifications told me. Doctors are fallible, too. I do not revere someone with a tertiary qualification or 6!
I'll enlighten you about drug-free, Satya. At no stage was I in 'agony', nor was I ever afraid of what was happening in my body. I looked forward to my son's birth from a very early stage in my pregnancy and put complete faith in my body's inherited wisdom to do so. I wanted to be completely present for him when he did arrive, giving us both the best chance at establishing breastfeeding. We knew what the effects of pain relief were on the baby and decided that we didn't want anything to cross the placenta - I wanted him and me as lucid as possible. I knew that there are more risks involved in medicalising normal birth than by letting my body birth naturally, and for these reasons, drug-free was my only option. And it was beautiful - not only the result, but the whole labour and birth process, as well as the end result.
Look, if women want to believe that their birth requires medicalisation, that's up to them. What I really resent is the 'recruitment' drive that these women embark on. It is these women who harp on about how you 'don't have to be a hero', 'take the drugs', 'will be in so much pain', and think that because that's how they think, it must be this way for other women. So many women are all too willing to believe that this is true. I don't know why! If someone told me that birth could be magical and wondrous and someone else told me it was horrific...why would you want it to be horrific and thus prepare for horror, pain and trauma? It makes absolutely no sense to me. If you don't have to place yourself under medical care (that is, if you are not a high-risk pregnancy), then why would you? And why try to disempower others by telling them they are foolish for believing it can be a great thing? And yet this happens everyday - to women by women who are supposed to be their friends
I would rather be the woman some people think are mad for believing birth to be orgasmic, than the woman who cuts off at the knees another woman's aspirations for a peaceful birth by being negative and advocating subservience to a doctor where it's medically unnecessary That's just me. I don't sell myself short

[soniebon]

At the end of the day i dont care how it happens as long as it happens safely and without too much pain and that im ok,baby is ok,everyone healthy and someone there to scrape hubby off the floor,if by chance i have to have a C/S then so be it,if i have natural i will choose an epidural,at the end of the day it is your body and your choice and any successful birth is positive powerful one..and nobody can tell you whats right for you,everyone is an individual,i think so many people forget we are just that,individual..just my 2 cents
bon

[Starzia]

Mayaness u go girl!

Sadya it really saddens me that that it is beyond your comprehension why anyone would want to try and have a drug-free labour. There have been multiple reasons why in this thread, not least being that it is safer and healthier for both baby and mother. I respect everyones right to have the birth that they choose, but to say it 'completely escapes' you how and why anyone would have a drug free labour implies that you have not taken in anything anyone has said.

[Trillian]

You know what I have learnt? You catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar. I am all for education of women and informed consent, but gee, you can still be a natural birth 'bully' without being a bully.......

[meow]

Speaking for myself I know what an amazing experience I found it to be very present, in control and drug free for the birth of my son so I do try and share that experience for others in the hope that they will not be scared of giving birth and discover the experience they can have without interventions.

That said, I would never actually pressure a person to go that way and I don't scorn people who don't choose to (or medically can't) birth the same way I did. Perhaps your friends are just hoping to educate you on the over medicalised industry in the hope of a great outcome for you? Obviously whatever you want to do is the right thing so long as you are making informed choices.

[MantaRay]

Satya, having had a drug free VB, especially after a previous birth with epidural, I can definitely understand why women want a drug free birth. Once you've experienced it you know how amazing it is, and how much better you feel afterwards.

[Smoke Jaguar]

If a 'bully' is someone who wishes for people to avoid unnecessary trauma and unpleasantness, so be it How odd! It seems women are more prepared to accept the fear of god than to be told they can have better than that! The Business of Being Born addresses this very thing.
I would never be grateful to anyone who led me to believe that birth is a traumatic affair that is best left to doctors. I am grateful to those who helped me achieve what I did and I still resent the horror-storytellers, to this day. Take your pick!

[Trillian]

Look, I largely agree with you, but you are simply more likely to get people to see you POV if you don't come across as being so militant. I find a gently-gently approach works for me.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Yes, you're right. Some people will see me as militant, others will just see me as I do - being upfront and honest about explaining my reality without being afraid of how others will judge me (and I know they will, I'm just not afraid of it). Gently-gently often lets a lot of women down, too and I'm satisfied with my approach for now (I was never one to say "I'm not a feminist, but..." )

[Trillian]

You can take the 'in your face' or militant approach if you want to, that's fine if that's what your personality is, but you can't honestly be surprised when you realise that some people don't take too kindly to that type of approach. I know I can hear a lot better when I'm not being *shouted* at.

You have to choose your mode of delivery (no pun intended) when it comes to sharing the knowledge you have. Maybe my approach wont work all the time either, and I don't have an issue with taking a harder stance if I have to, but come on, you have to admit that people are more receptive to your ideas when you are at least nice about it. Part of education is building a rapport with them, make them want to listen to what you have to say, not force them to. And after all that you have to accept that some women just don't want to listen that that is completely fine, because its not your life they are living it is theirs and they have to WANT to change it for themselves, not be told they have to because they are naive and uneducated.

I don't imagine that you, Mayaness, would take too kindly to someone bursting your bubble, so maybe that can be respected in others?

[scooby]

This is such an interesting thread and as i have had afew sleepless nights over this id like to share, it a bit of a long sorry:
I had aperfect preg with DS with no hickups til the birth i ended up with a nasty 3rd degree tear which took monthes to repair and years to get over, my son popped his lung and ended up in special care for 3 days and not sure if its connected but 1.5 years of fertility treatment with induction, insemination and finally IVF, i should point out that i study natural medicine and tried everything in my power before medical intervention. I fell preg last year and ended up with an ectopic, more medical intervention, and the loss of my tube!
The ob and midwife who birthed my son said CS next time, the ob i saw for my ectopic said CS, my new ob is saying CS, not only beacuse of last time, but it is anatomical and because of my mothers history of bowel prolapse! I have tried in vain to get information and cannot get anything unbiased, i read that you say everyone is all about intervention, drugs, obs etc. but my experience has been the opposite, even when i posted in a "so called" CS support forum i got inudated with all the risks involved with CS when i was asking for help. Im sorry but i find the web is an open slather for CS vigiliantes who want to preach what they think is best, if anyone made me feel bad and depressed for my so called "elective" it is these people! I realise there are risks believe me im well educated on them, but for me there is risks in VB and i realise your probably thinking im saving my own skin and its not whats best for my baby. Well unlike my mum i want to go camping and hiking and play sport without worrying about incontinence, or worst case senerio having a coloscopy bag!! I could go on and on, but the strongest point in all this that i want to make is that as women we should support each others choices NOT subject one another to our own strong opinions, it is these strong view points that play on our minds on those sleepless nights and at those times when we are feeling low. Isnt it so wonderful today that we have a choice and that maternal and paternal death rates are so much lower than they were years ago. Live and let live!

[nadia]

[QUOTE=monnie;1217312],
Trust yourself, trust the choices you make... It's hard not to be affected by the opinions and feelings of others...but ultimately, they don't live in your shoes. Said perfectly, it's your body, your baby, and NO ONE I don't care who they are knows whats going to happen, but remember women have been doing this for centries, and alot back in "the day", did it on their own.

So to qoute monnie again....... Trust yourself, trust the choices you make, coz they'll be your instincts that kick in, so going with that and your OB (who's yes is trained as you said)! you're gonna rock hun.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Scooby- exactly! you are more than well-informed about what you have to do; in fact, it's not even a choice for you, so it's empowering for you to be completely informed about the only path you have to take. Of course there are cases where not having a CS is far more risky than the side effects of intervention...that's what the interventions are for and I have never, ever said that interventions, OB's and medical births don't have a role to play in birthing. So many women have no choice but to have a medicalised birth and don't realise that they can still be active participants and ask very little questions about the process (I am really happy for you and heartened, Scooby, that are on the ball with your situation). And heaps of women prefer to ask few questions, so be it. For me that's a bit too much like a blank cheque. Some don't realise they CAN ask questions and forums like this let them know otherwise.
Trillian - like I said, you're right. And someone else is going to read what I've written, it will resonate with them and they will disagree with the angle you've taken with the same material. You'd both be right. I'm not going to bend over backwards appealing to everyone and saying nothing in particular about what I've experienced and learned. And on the contrary, if my bubble is to be burst for great benefit to me, I would hope to be gracious enough to accept a correction to a misperception! I had some bubbles burst in my pregnancy and was eternally grateful for it. Funny how it really is ok to tell someone that birth is traumatic and that they should leave it to an OB to look after and it's not ok to suggest to people that they can have a fabulous birth with just midwives if their pregnancy is normal (with the normal back up that midwives have for necessary interventions). Really not understanding what's not 'nice' about the latter. And there's no forcing of anything - you choose or don't choose, I can't make anyone do or think anything they don't want to do, simple.
Just saying: do yourself a favour, ask questions, birth doesn't have to be a spectator sport.

[Steffi]

Hey, whilst i am not pregnant yet i am feeling major pressure even just in the TTC phase about having the perfect birth. I find that most people think you should have the drug free, doula present home or birthing unit style birth and that annoys me. I am hoping to use SJOG in subiaco and know that it has a great repuatation. I don't mind having an epidural or gas either and feel relieved and comforted by the fact of having my own ob. I am trying not to let it bother me but it does. People should just keep there opinions to themselves

[paradise lost]

All this talk of bubble bursting....

I posted about the risks of sections on Scooby's thread. In the initial post all that was said was that there had been a 3rd degree tear in the previous delivery.

I posted the medical facts. The statistically established truth - tears that bad are rare and can be avoided in most cases by the mother's position, controlled pushing and avoiding epidural and a c-section would not be necessary to avoid one. I don't seek to burst a bubble. It's the truth.

If, following a terrible birthing experience, a long recovery, and a family background of associated problems, a woman still chooses to go the surgical route that is neither surprising nor wrong. I think what bothers me is the risks of EITHER being played down. So many women have a section and say "I'd never have forgiven myself if s/he got hurt in a natural birth". Would they forgive themselves if the surgeon cut their baby's face with the scalpel? If the baby couldn't breathe alone for a day? If the baby needed to go to NICU for post-surgical problems? If the baby never managed to breastfeed? If their NEXT baby died of a placental abruption caused by a placenta praevia attached to the scar? Or if their NEXT baby never came because they lost their uterus during surgery?

In terms of numbers and mortality/morbidity c-sections ARE SAFE. But in all but a handful (WHO states 10-15%) vaginal birth is safer. The risks need to be FULLY weighed. Fear governs too many choices around pregnancy and birth IMO - not really fears of women who have in FACT had scary experiences, but the fears of women who have not given birth yet, the inherent fear of our society of the process of birth.

I will always try to present women with the fullest facts i can, i will always try to inform, rather than scaremonger. But i also recognise that having had only one blissful homebirth under my belt i can NEVER truly understand the fears in the heart of a woman who, for WHATEVER reason, nearly lost her baby or her life while giving birth.

Bx

[Smoke Jaguar]

Yep, Steffi - don't let anyone tell you what you 'should' be doing! It's one thing to say what you could do, it's quite another to presume to tell someone it's what they should do. And for some people, the more they learn about epi's etc, the less they want to use them, depending on what kind of pg they are having (normal or high-risk).
I don't keep my opinions and experiences to myself here on BB because that's not what internet forums are for I will share what kinds of things people could do to achieve a more satisfying birth experience, too and why I believe these to be of benefit Then you can just take it or leave it from there!
Good luck with TTC

[Steffi]

Thanks Mayaness, I think everyone should just have respect for each others opinions and not push onto each other. It's nice to hear peoples advice and i am always interested in hearing about others experiences. I recently looked into hiring a doula to be present when i do concieve and give birth in hospital but i found that the woman i spoke to was much more interested in telling me i was making a bad decision and steering me towards a home birth. By the end i was turned off doulas for life and still kinda feel that way. I was looking for extra support because i suffer anxiety and not to feel the complete opposite which is how she made me feel. Who knows maybe with my subsequent births i may change my views but for my first i want to be in hospital and i should alos add that my husband and i have been researching our birth choices for 8 years and my decision is pretty well informed to me. I just can't believe peoples attitudes towards this subject, why can't everyone just respect each other. We all have to learn via our own experiences so it may be that i regret my decision but maybe i would regret going the other way and not trusting my instincts.

[Lulu]

Maya, I think your words can inspire others to search for what they need, and give them the confidence to question what they want and CAN achieve. Militant? Maybe, but your passion inspires too.

Scooby, if you had previously posted and only given a part of the information, you can't help someone wondering if you had been given all your options.

Steffi, you have to interview doulas like you did your OB. The doula you spoke to may have been better suited to someone who was looking for a homebirth (and maybe listened to what you wanted ). I hear some can get a bit militant themselves, but my experience has been freakin awesome and the doulas around BB just cant be beat.