Does happy mum REALLY equal happy baby?

[Liz]

I also feel that if I'm meeting the needs of the baby, the baby is more likely to 'give' me that me-time. I guess it's all just what perspective you take huh.

ilike this thinking but unfortunatley it hasnt worked that way for ME.. which makes it hard when trying to do it the "right way" (yes i do believe in a right way to parenting)

Yeah, well, doesn't really work for me either, but I like to think it will some time! LOL. As I said, I haven't had a good night sleep in nearly 3 years! But both kids have been very content little things (to a degree!) so I feel like my sacrifices are slowly getting rewarded. For instance, my DS now sleeps RIGHT THROUGH the night. I mean.. that is a HUGE thing for me LOL. Shame DD isn't yet! I feel like meeting his needs to feed to sleep for 2 years paid off with me having a boy that doesn't fight going to bed (he might whinge now & then) but he goes to bed and stays there! So hopefully in the long term it all pays off hehe. I won't know myself once DD starts sleeping through. i probably won't be able to sleep!

[onthefly]

I agree Liz. The happy mum thing bothers me a little bit sometimes too. Not because mums shouldn't be happy - I don't think we should all be martyrs or anything like that, but so often it seems to come down to a happy mum OR happy baby choice.... I guess one underlying problem really is the fact that so many parents (and that often means mum, really) are fending for themselves without much support. In the end we all just have to make the best decisions we can in the circumstances we're given.
It is really difficult to function and care for someone without sleep. Wow, three years Liz! I've only been going 9 months... I don't think that should mean I leave my DS to cry it out or switch to formula, though, I think that means his dad and grandparents need to step up to help out where they can (which they do).
I wish we had a government programme for home-helpers to come and support new parents in their homes in those critical first few weeks, and that could come back occasionally for parents desperately needing break time later on. That would be far more constructive than any CIO advice, etc.

[Mumma2three]

The way I read it is if the mum is fulfilled and happy in general, they can deal with a baby better than a mother who is not happy. Like Captain said.
I believe if a mother is not happy they are less patient, have less of a fun spirit and sense of humour, and it takes alot less time to become "over it". On the other hand, if the mothers needs are met, I think everything is easier, easier to have fun with children, far more patience and generally able to deal with the whole parenting situation better (like lack of sleep, isolation at times etc).
I say all this because I KNOW I have been a "less" good mother lately because I myself am not fullfilled. LOVE my kiddies to bits and they are the most important thing in my life.. BUT.. I am beginning to wonder what happened to "me" and this is bringing my spirit down a bit. Im also losing patience with DH alot easier and finding that he isn't helping me AT ALL. THis could be because of my attitude. But it's not just limited to the kids, he is driving me crazy alot faster than he used to!
Same time last year, I was fulfilled. I was running my own business and I felt that FINALLY I was achieving some of my lifelong goals not related to my children. They weren't career related either, they were a bi-product of my business, getting around people, public speaking etc. I can honestly say I was such a good mum! Fun, patient, loving, although tired, I had more energy because I was happier.
So that's my experience. For me it's not to do with co-sleeping, breastfeeding etc. I don't read into it that way. But if co-sleeping is driving a mother insane, then maybe not doing it will mean happy mum=happy baby?
But for me it definitely relates more to Mother with happy/fulfilled/spirit, = happy baby.

[sunshine_sieben]

You do have a good point, Mumma2girls. Thanks for sharing your experience.

It's just that the word fulfillment always irks me. It's not the meaning of the word itself. It's just that it is often used in a context that I dislike. It's those people that ask me: "What, you want to JUST be a SAHM. Are you sure you can be fulfilled that way?" Or an aunty who told me that she regretted being a SAHM while her kids were little because it was boring and unfulfilling.

Well, I see it differently: I find it extremely fulfilling (whatever that means) being there for my child/ren and my family. I couldn't imagine that working for someone else would be more fulfilling TO ME.
Having said that, DH and I do run our own business and I do work there a little still. But tbh, I'd rather step back even further. My mum was a SAHM as well, and she would never do it any other way. So although, we've now left the nest, she is still "fulfilled" because she knows that what she has achieved in her life is the greatest achievement: raising kind, loving and compassionate children (well, I am blowing my own trumpet here a little, sorry).
Sorry, that was so off topic...

Yes, I do think it is important that a mother's needs are met, even if they might not always come first. It is so important to have a support system around you. For help when you need it or just as a shoulder to cry on. If you feel like you are not alone in this, you can get through the hard days and nights. But if you feel isolated and neglected, then it is very difficult to keep perspective. I know I would have lost the plot on a few occasions if it hadn't been for my family and good friends and you ladies here on BB. Thanks!

Saša

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Interesting thread!

"Happy Mum = Happy baby" to me means that both people here have needs and both peoples' needs should be met. It doesn't mean mum puts her wants in front of baby's needs, though.

I know one Mum who is a happy Mum. Her baby "put herself to sleep" from 6w old (CCing), is "happy with strangers" (has no choice as Mum wants a social life) and "plays happily on her own while I bake/paint/scrapbook". That baby isn't happy the Mum goes out on a date with Dad every week, leaving Baby with a stranger. Mum is, but it's Mum's wants over Baby's needs here.

I know a time when I was an unhappy Mum. I needed help and support: I had bad whiplash from a car accident, DS was injured too and wanted to be held all the time, even with a sling it was agony. He could have been held by ANYONE - but MiL wouldn't come round and cuddle DS for me. (Found out recently I wasn't allowed to ask her because DH had and she'd said no!) Ignoring my needs was not helpful. Friends helped, but also had children so couldn't be around as much as, say, a retired grandmother could.

I'm happy when I go out for (decaff) coffee. DS is happy now to see friends and play. Win-win. But there was a time when he wasn't happy to be away from me. I kept him with me; he needed me and I wanted a half-hour to chat without him. Needs trump wants. Sure, it would have been nice to have a whole conversation but that wasn't happening, no big deal.

Whose needs first? Depends on the greatest need.

I've left DS crying in his cot for an extra 30 seconds before I'm by his side: if I hadn't then I'd have wet myself putting him back to sleep! Loo break trumps a half-hour of putting DS back down. Mostly DS's needs come before mine, but not always. I need to cook a dinner and DS wants to play: dinner wins. DS needs to get dressed and I need my BB time... DS wins (usually LOL).

DS was the one to stop co-sleeping, to stop breast-feeding, to start all his "big boy" behaviour (toilet training, sitting to table etc). His needs are being met as are my wants: I wanted him to tell me when to do this, I didn't want to have to push the issue! I missed him when he stopped co-sleeping but his need to be alone outweighted my need to have a body to cuddle!

[Junglemum]

i think the statement is true to a degree. But i look more at it from the perspective of when i am upset or stressed it reall effects my little girl. When i am happy then our days seem much more pleasant. If i am stressed she is difficult to settle, grumpy and clingy.

but for me, resorting to controlled crying to get that sleep, or making a baby drop night feeds at a really young age, to me isn't about having a happy baby at all..

I guess this would be because doing these things wouldn't make you happy. They wouldn't make me happy either. Differnt things are important to us and therefore make us happy. Not using controlled crying is more important to me than my baby sleeping throught the night. So we don't use CC and i believe that makes me feel like a happier mum because i feel i am doing what i think is best for my child. For other people, having their baby sleep though the night is more important and therefore that is what will make them happy.


I think i have used the term before when a member seems to be stressed, upset and at their wits end and wants to try something else. For eg, they want to stop BF and use formula. I am not going to tell them that i think they are doing the wrong thing and should tough it out and persist with the BF'ing. But i would perhaps offer them encouragement with the words like......... you need to do what feels right for you and your baby, you have tried really hard and what ever decision you make is up to you, it's ok to come to this decision, a happy mum = happy baby. In this instance i would mean it in regards to the stress which was obviously creating issues and upsetting them, which i think would inturn upset the baby. Does that make ANY sense???

Just trying to explain my thoughts in a situation where i might use the term.....

When i see the term happy mum = happy baby it doesn't really bother me. I recognise that happiness and what gets us there is a very individual thing. But i can see what you mean by happy baby = happy mum.

I think it should be happy baby= happy mum = happy baby.

[Lulu]

I keep pondering and trying to find words that won't offend. So gimme a break ok?

In my experiences, I have come across mothers that don't seem to get that motherhood involves sacrifice. And it does full stop, I'm sure we all can agree on that. Now I'm not talking about stopping things that will crack your head apart if you don't stop or endeavor to change them, but things that are part and parcel of being a mother.

Then throwing out the 'happy baby = happy mum" thing. The child comes first or why bother having them at all?

[[M]umma[M]ia]

i believe Happy baby = happy mum. If im happy shes still gonna scream so i dont stay happy for every long so i dont get the happy mum=happy baby. I think its the other way around!

[[M]umma[M]ia]

The child comes first or why bother having them at all?

so VERY true!

[onthefly]

Ah Trillian, you were brave enough to say what I was thinking...

[Cassius2]

for me, the first time that i heard the happy mum = happy baby mantra, i felt a sense of relief. i was in the newborn days with DD and had advice being thrown at me from all angles and was drowning in it and the inevitable guilt that follows when you feel that you aren't doing the 'right' thing.

when i was told the mantra it gave me permission to take stock of the things that as a new mum would make me happy. and you know what? the thing that i knew that would make me happy would be to be a loving mum to a happy and content baby.
this then made me sit down and think about the logistics of that. and i took baby steps (pardon the pun) toward finding that peace. one of the very first acts i did to help was to create a daily ritual whereby when DH got home from work i would give DD a b/f, pass her to her daddy and i would go and soak in the bath for 20 minutes to rejuvenate and refresh for the night ahead. i don't see that as being a selfish act. and no, i didnt wait until i was insane or in need of a sanity break. i did it as a matter of course to look after myself so that i can be the best i can be for my daughter. I don't see leaving my DD with her daddy as a selfish act.

and yeah, DH and I organise 'dates' with eachother. again i see this as an important step in maintaining a healthy, happy family. we are all we have, and we are all Leila has. so it is (for us) vitally important that DH and I have time for eachother to reconnect, not only as parents, but as friends and lovers. i dont see calling her Godmother to come over for a few hours at night while we go to a movie or out for dinner as selfish. would DD prefer us to stay home with her (or take her too)? probably. but I have to look at this from a wholistic point of view. we are trying to create a happy, strong and fulfilled environment for our family and sometimes we need to separate not only our needs from wants but also our children's.

i guess this also stems from my perspective that i dont believe that Leila can ONLY be a happy baby when I am around 24/7. her happiness is much deeper than a superficial presence of the 'mother'. i know that her happiness stems from her belief and confidence that we love her, that we are there to catch her when she falls, to hold her hand when she walks and to let go when she wants to chase a flock of seagulls.

my DD needs are always a priority in our lives, and it too goes deeper than simple feeding, sleeping, play regimes. her needs are wide and varied and open to negotiation at any time. but we meet them (with vigour!! LOL!). a mum going out and doing something for herself to make herself happy does not automatically mean that she is creating unhappiness in her child or placing her needs ahead of her baby. it doesn't need to be a selfish act.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Clare, I don't think the odd night out is selfish when your child is left with a loved, and loving, adult. Heck, I've left my mum to put DS to sleep a couple of times so DH and I could go out!

I do think it's selfish when it's every week and it's a different teenager pretty much every week - and a 3-month rota means to a baby, even to a pre-schooler, it's a new teenager every week.

I agree that if you have a baby you have to make certain sacrifices. But not 100% sacrifices. Should I sacrifice all my sleep when I can kick DH out of bed once or twice on a bad night? Happy mummy, happy baby. Unhappy Daddy but that's not the point LOL. Leaving DS with his Dad is never a bad thing, whether it's so I can shower or do the groceries or just have a night out with the girls. I agree that if you're not willing to consider the child as a human and one who not only deserves respect but your time and love - unconditionally - then you shouldn't have children.

Having said that, there are times when a mother should come first. Very few occasions. Needing the loo is always one. Finances... I'm not happy about leaving DS at nursery but DS is and I'm happy that my home isn't being reposessed. Sometimes we have to think more of a bigger picture. I had a "martyr mummy" and it isn't fun. I am not going to give up EVERYTHING for the sake of DS. He is going to have chores and I am not going to spend hours doing his homework so he gets a good grade. (Helping, yes, but doing it all no.) I am going to say "actually, I need a new coat more than you need that computer game bought for you." Especially when, like this Autumn, I had no winter coat at all as the one that is 14 years old has too many holes in. (Thankfully I got my sister's cast offs from last winter, but that's not the point.) Because the self-sacrifice all the time didn't make me feel differently towards my mum but I did resent the way she hated her selfish family... well you shouldn't be facilitating it! You want me to clean my room, vacuum it? Don't you do it! Same with my ironing! I will happily not iron my pants, so don't whinge when you choose to do it!

Anyway. Really good points. And yes, the mantra is used wrongly to put mummy wants in front of baby needs (eg control crying). If a woman "wants her body back" then why have a baby? I'm not BFing and still don't have my body back in that it's now DS's climbing frame. Things change. But realising that you chose to have a baby, the baby didn't choose you: that's the first step in putting the balance in the right direction IMO.

[Neenee Jellybeanie]

I thought I was the only one who had this thought LOL! I think happy mum=happy bub is a phrase that women *sometimes* use to justify being selfish in situations that they really should be giving bub priority (I've never seen it done in this forum though). Like anything, it's a balance between babies needs and also your own needs because at the end of the day, you need to be at a functional level to care of your child(ren)! Children come first, in my opinion, but that doesn't mean mum falls off the priority list all together.

[Astrid]

This has been an interesting read. I have often thought that the HM=HB statement should be banned. Often when I have encountered it, it really means Happy Mummy = stuff everyone else and their needs. I have heard it used as an excuse to turn playgroups into Mummy wine drinking sessions, as the mummies are more relaxed, so the kids must be! I now tend to ignore advice that is justified with that statement, as I feel that if the person is using it with me, that they don't really understand me and my situation.

[LuluHB]

I think there is a place for the statement and I'll continue to use it. Everybody has a different experience at pregnancy, birth and then parenting. For some women it is very important that the statement happy mum = happy baby is embraced and supported because sometimes the mother simply must come first. If she doesn't, you going to have a very unhappy everybody - mother, baby, husband, other children.

[*Efjay*]

I haven't read all of this thread. but gonna say this....

I think sometimes An unhappy mum is the work of a happy baby. Im sure there are days (and nights) when my kids pueposely push my buttons just so they can have a giggle at me. Its like an inside joke between them
Take Isla & Iain for example. Iain is lovely, sleeps though most nights. What more could I ask for with 4 kids? Well Isla thought it would be funny to revert back to wake 3 times a night.
She is happy cuz she is getting boobie through the night, But I ain't cuz I want to take advantage of my new baby sleeping though. So I think Isla is having a good ol laugh at me!
Well not for long though cuz I have cottoned on & Im gonna have to tuffin up on this constant waking!

LOL so yeah I think my kids are all have a secret little laugh at me thinking to themselves "Sucker!!" LOL

Na I don't really think that. Happy baby's=Happy kids/Happy family's. But we can't all be happy at the same time. Well we can get everyone happy at the same time, it just takes a bit of hard work sometimes & no one likes hard work.

[Smoke Jaguar]

no one likes hard work.

Ooooh, I'm ALWAYS up for a challenge Pushing comfort zones is what I'm comfortable with LOL! Then again, I'm usually a 'full tilt' or 'no tilt' kind of person, living my life passionately interested in what I'm doing, on some level, or out for the count.
My firefighting is very important to me. If it weren't, I'd have opted out when DS was little. This is the one area of conflict in my life, akin to Rory's one with work. I have been trying and trying and trying to make it work. I've been making compromises on it and my firefighting has suffered a LOT. And as I'm still passionate about its role in my life, I haven't given up on it yet. However, with the current and foreseeable male-interest-oriented nature of fire brigades, no-ones going to help me integrate firefighting into my mothering experience (yes, I do believe I could be better accomodated and supported, including by my partner who is also a volunteer), so whilst that's the case for now (don't worry, it's something I'm working on...I can chip away at the Old Guard slowly to make it easier for someone else to knock down the wall!), my boy is better off with my letting fire brigade take a back seat. I don't need anyone to tell me this and I don't think it would at all help if someone said "Go on, go on a Strike Team and take your pump with you - it will make you happy and HM=HB", because DS would be VERY upset with me being gone for 24 hours in hot weather when he wants some boob! Not compatible, I made my choice and whilst my hand is forced for now, the compromise is necessary to meet DS's needs. And that makes me happy and fulfilled in its own way.
ETA:

It confirms and validates your approach to parenthood in just the way you need.

No, not for parenting, for life in general I love this quote. It's my reality check. Everything passes, it gives me perspective when I think something is huger than it really is.

[*Efjay*]

I've just glanced back over this thread. Have to say I am hating how defensive everyone seems to get on BB these days.

Ooooh, I'm ALWAYS up for a challenge Pushing comfort zones is what I'm comfortable with LOL!

Thats great! Im more of a "its gotta be done" kinda person. Like a couple of years back I had to pick the car up from being serviced. To do it, I had to catch 2 buses with 3 kids (one being 6 weeks old) on a really hot day, it took an hour of travel to get there. That was hard work, I didn't like it but it had to be done. You just get on with it & do it.