Why do people think it's ok?

[butterfly_warrior]

I don't know whether I'm just seriously grumpy today, but I'm just so over all the questions that people think it's ok to ask because you are doing IVF.

There's been two in two days lately...

Thursday as I was leaving work I had someone pull me aside and ask "and where are you at with the IVF now?". She also proceeded to do the other thing that annoys me immensely and proceeded to tell me how she'd heard something recently where sinlge embryo transfers were more likely to result in a live baby than double embryo transfers... grrr!! How do you tactfully suggest to someone that me and my FS have it covered and we aren't going to find that magic clue to getting me pregnant by waiting for her to tell it to us?

Then another today... "where are you with your treatment?" I was vaguely tempted to start talking about what my rheumy is doing (sticking me on calcium and vitamin D supplements in addition to everything else to counteract the loss of bone density from the prednisone) or perhaps the anxiety (prothiaden dose still high, still seeing psychologist), but I couldn't.

Why is it suddenly ok to ask us what we are going through? Why is our fertility and plans to reproduce suddenly open slather for conversation topics just because we can't do things the normal way? It's not like they'd go ask someone of normal fertility when they were planning on boinking their husband and when AF was due, and "where are you at in your cycle, dear? about to ovulate? about to test?"

Why is it ok to do that to us? Is it not bad enough that we'll have four people in the room when we do conceive?

I just wish my colleagues would at least give me what little dignity I have left in this whole process! Please tell me I'm not the only one who has to put up with this?

Maybe I should have put this in the vent forum...

BW

[briggsy's girl]

i got asked one like this today hunny - and it is so damned hard! i got asked "so, have you got results from your latest cycle? are you up the duff yet?" i was thinking wtf? i decided to attack back and said "we're not cycling at the moment - but hey, we're practising real hard for a natural one - want details of that too?"

hmmmm i was a little tired today - NOT a good day to invade my privacy

i really wish IVF didn't have to be this big secret, but it seems that the only way to maintain your privacy and sanity is to keep it that way - sucks big time

can't offer a solution - but i can offer some witty comebacks - and massive cyber hugs

[slyder]

I think it's a combination of nosiness and genuine interest. People with half a brain wait to be told.

They probably mean the best, but don't realise how it affects the rest of us.

[butterfly_warrior]

I think I need to collect a list of snappy comebacks. But I'm not sure many of them would be appropriate for a christian work environment!

I'm sure that it does come out of a badly thought out intention to be supportive, but it's just so damned frustrating! I almost wish there was a leaflet I could hand to people on "Ways to be really supportive to your friends undergoing assisted conception". I guess it would primarily consist of shut the hell up and wait for them to volunteer the information to you.

Weird how the people you'd be happy to tell are the ones who don't ask.

BW

[all girls]

How rude!!

You did well not snapping at them.

It is exactly the same as asking when af is due etc. I could never ask someone something so personal.

I like your response Briggsy's girls at least they wont ask again.

[slyder]

Weird how the people you'd be happy to tell are the ones who don't ask.

Not really, when you think about it...

[Nadine216]

I am keeping my eye's shut, just in case you hit me with a sledge hammer! ... I think ppl ask because they are interested and want you to know that they are thinking of you and your situation. I don't know if you have kept it secret, but if not, you surley knew that ppl would be asking? Anyway that is what I did when friends of ours was IVF. Just to let them know that we are thinking of them and hoping with them, I would call her just to know how she is doing. And honest - it was something new and interesting.
And about the lady that gave you the "advice", I am sure she just wanted to help, maybe she really thought that you did not know!?
I don't know what you are going through, and I have no right to tell you to take it easy. But hun, I don't think that they do it on purpose, although it feels like that to you. And they are pulling you aside and not chatting at top voice in a room full of ppl, sparing your dignity - ok not really And I would think that one can get sick of the questions when you have been down your road. You have every right to get sick off it!!
Sorry, I don't want to upset you more, I just thought that you should know that asking silly & private questions is what most ppl would do.
I do hope you feel better soon, because you are having one hell of a silly time lately!!
:hugs:

[Mel1977]

I agree BW, I have only really told our family and close friends about our IVF for that reason. It goes for anything in life, people just dont know when to butt out. Ever since having Nicholas I have got the old "so are you pregnant again yet?", as if life isnt hard enough already they have to remind me that we are STILL trying to have another!

People just dont know their boundaries, and like you said its not like anyone would ask a couple conceiving naturally about their sex life. I think the best one is people asking if DH has had his swimmers tested LMAO... not something a man would like to share with the world I am sure

Sorry you have had a crappy day

[deni]

My problem is that in the lead up to O or an assisted cycle, when I'm feeling optimistic and excited, I've been way too open with people (including a few people at work), who through no fault of their own then continue to ask me for details, when I DON'T want to talk about it (ie the second half of my cycle or right when AF arrives).. My fault I guess for not setting boundaries in the first place !

[{sarah}]

You know what I loved (sarcasm here ), not in an IVF cycle, but I got a comment one night at a BBQ when I was having a glass of wine "awww so you didn't get pregnant this cycle?" GRRRRRRR! Wanna rub some salt into the wounds?? And for that exact reason this person & 98% of other people were not told that we were doing IVF. I do understand that it's out of interest, but would you ask people "So how's your chemotherapy treatment going this week? How many times have you thrown up today?" Same thing IMO, medical treatment for a certain condition, but one for some reason warrants all these questions.....

You're so right in that the people that you're happy to talk about it with are the ones that don't ask. My work was very supportive & I found myself telling them all about different things so a lot of people there learnt about the whole IVF process as we went along. I found though that no-one asked specific questions, they waited for me to talk.


BTW, do you want it moved to the vent forum

[briggsy's girl]

I am keeping my eye's shut, just in case you hit me with a sledge hammer! ... I think ppl ask because they are interested and want you to know that they are thinking of you and your situation. I don't know if you have kept it secret, but if not, you surley knew that ppl would be asking? Anyway that is what I did when friends of ours was IVF. Just to let them know that we are thinking of them and hoping with them, I would call her just to know how she is doing. And honest - it was something new and interesting.

....

i think this is something we all have to deal with everyday - yes, there is a level genuine concern with some people - but it's mostly pure curiosity with others. i don't think there is a single problem with someone asking WHAT the process is, but there is a massive invasion of privacy when someone asks where you're up to in that process - particularly when that person is an acquaintance that has just heard you're doing ivf.

i have close friends who know where i'm at with cycling - not a single drama with them knowing because they are my number one support when i'm at work and having issues - but when someone who happens to work at the same place as me and can barely have a conversation to me day by day decides to ask where i'm at with things - that's just not on! unfortunately for me, and i think it's similar for BW - i've had to make people aware of what is happening for work flexibility reasons - and in most larger workplaces, things become semi-public knowledge even when you don't want them to - but having said that, there is no way i would go up to someone and ask them the type of questions we're being faced with everyday

i choose to share the ups and downs of this journey with the community on BB - primarily because, although i've made some fabulous friends here, i'm mostly anonymous here - no one truly knows me, and what is said here stays here - i don't have to deal with it every day when i'm trying to go about my life and my job - i don't choose to share these aspects at work, and i should be shown enough respect by my colleagues to not broach the subject unless i am the one that chooses to discuss it

and no, i won't swing the proverbial sledge hammer (well, not at you this time anyway) - but i've come damn close at times with others - respect is something that is deserved, and whether someone is taking us aside to whisper a question, or speaking to us in a crowded public place, they're taking away our right to privacy and disrespecting us as individuals - and that just isn't right (or fair) is it?

[butterfly_warrior]

On second thoughts, Sarah - lets leave it here. Hopefully people who see this can learn something along the lines of what not to say to a person doing IVF.

I think BG has put everything so beautifully - the calm voice of reason that is eloquently saying everything I'm feeling but am just too angry and frustrated to communicate clearly.

In my case, I had to tell people at work because I was facing being extremely ill with OHSS - people had to know what we were dealing with. However, when we got to the less-invasive FET cycles that were much easier on my body - they simply didn't need to know, but wouldn't butt out. When I miscarried, things became even more public in my work place. Now, when things have gone so badly recently, I just want to do this privately and quietly.

I really couldn't give a damn whether the questions are whispered to me when taken aside or shouted across a crowded room - it's a blatant invasion of privacy and bordering on downright offensive! There are as many people at work who know about my arthritis (probably more, because most of my students know also - need to give some sort of explanation for the days I don't move much and drop stuff constantly), but nobody feels the need to pull me aside and ask about my arthritis.

It's simply a question of why should my infertility be open for discussion when the arthritis is not?

ok, getting annoyed again, time to walk away for a bit.

BW

[slyder]

BW, you're dead right about the different medical situations and how people only feel the need to ask about IVF.

I can also appreciate what Nadine is saying too.

As for my comment about "not really when you think about it", just thought I'd better clarify - I just meant that the people who you want to tell (the ones that don't ask) are the right people because they are considerate and thoughtful - which is why you want to tell them, IYKWIM...

[butterfly_warrior]

I knew what you meant, Rols. I as actually going to comment, but got distracted. It's been a long week, and I'm very vague.

There are the people who ask, and it's ok. If there's that established closeness and friendship there, it's fine. Most of the time, those people don't ask every freaking time they see you! They often wait for you to volunteer the information as often as they ask. And you KNOW for sure that there is a true friendship there.

Totally different to the random work colleague that you would never see outside of work (unless by coincidence or forced into it), who seems to do it every time she sees you without students or other teachers around!

BW

[Nadine216]

Like I said before, I have NO idea what you are going through with IVF. And I think BW is right - this is a great thread, because it let ppl like me know what NOT to say to couples that are having trouble conciving. This was the first couple in our circle of friends that needed IVF and they were open about it. Granted she got pg first IVF. Unlike my BIL that are also going through this, but does not talk about it. I have so wanted to ask my SIL how she is doing and if they are coping, but just could not. I don't think she wants us to know, so I can't be there for her.
I never thought that asking: how are the IVF going, could be taken like I don't respect someone's privacy. I think I am being naive and thinking that everyone who asks something like that truely are concerned and just wants to let you know that you are there to support, if needed. I REALLY have not thought that it could just be done to be mean. I mean I don't walk up to anyone in the street and ask that type of question.
So what do you say to a friend at work? Do you send a note and act like you don't know what is going on? Do you just ignore and once she is pg, THEN you want to join the "journey"? I don't want to be mean - now I just plain curious.

I was having a glass of wine "awww so you didn't get pregnant this cycle?"

Ps. Sarah - Saying something like THAT is plain rude and insensitive

[briggsy's girl]

So what do you say to a friend at work? Do you send a note and act like you don't know what is going on? Do you just ignore and once she is pg, THEN you want to join the "journey"? I don't want to be mean - now I just plain curious.

i think that's the point Nadine - it's not up to a work colleague to be a part of the "journey" - they wouldn't expect to be invited into my bedroom to know how we're going getting pregnant on a natural conception cycle, so why should they need to know with the IVF/AC?

if they want to know how i'm doing as a person - then ask how I'm doing - and be interested in me as an individual - obviously if there is no pregnancy announcement things aren't going that great!

i'm a person - not a walking science project (no matter how i might feel that was sometimes) - so treat me as a human and respect me and my privacy the same as you'd expect in return - and when i'm ready to share some fantastic news, i will!

[all girls]

I have never been through what you are going through and could only imagine how hard it would be but common sense tells me how emotionally difficult and just a roller coaster ride it would be.

Maybe some people dont have conversation skills either and think that is what you are going through so that is what they bring up. Just a simple "how are you going" turns into more of a personal nosey question.

Its easy after the fact thinking of what you should have said but in the moment its a bit hard as you are probably gob smacked. Maybe you should think of a couple of things to say next time this happens to you so you have it stuck in your mind, doesn't have to be rude or blunt if you don't want just politely tell them its personal and you don't feel comfortable discussing it at work.

I am glad you have left this thread here as i agree that if it makes people see how it makes you feel then maybe they will think twice.

Even though i wouldn't say something like that to someone thanks for the insight.

[butterfly_warrior]

Nadine, the fact that someone is needing IVF means that they have already been through a series of incredibly invasive tests, all aspects of that couple's private life have been questioned, examined and discussed with doctors. Not to mention the heartbreak of TTC for a long time, the heartbreak of diagnoses if they can be made...

If someone tells you that they are doing IVF (for me, that happened in March/April when I was sick with OHSS), and then no pregnancy announcement is forthcoming several months later... wouldn't it be fairly obvious that IVF is not going well? Do you think it's perhaps a little insensitive to ask "how is the IVF going?" on a day that could have brought news of a failed cycle, failure to thaw frozen embryos, failure to fertilise or any number of things.

It's a journey that is invasive, emotional and in many ways degrading. Imagine needing 4 people in the room to conceive? I've actually lost count of the number of doctors who have got to examine my bits in the last 12 months. That's not even counting the nurses in the operating theatre, the sonographers at ultrasounds and the nurses who do the follicle scans for stim cycles. I guess I have a sense of wanting to retain what little privacy I have left. And a desire to be treated as a human being with real feelings and emotions, not just someone who gets poked, prodded and questioned by all and sundry.

BW