Save Our Sleep

[BabyQ]

I'm not implying anything to anyone in this thread but just thought I'd put a note in since it came up a couple of times since my last post, but my friend didn't notice her ds had a blank stare either.

[onthefly]

Ok, I know it's off-topic, but I just have to add this

Every parent will parent differently because our children and circumstances are different. I think we can all understand and respect this.
Every parent makes choices with their chilldren's best interests at heart. I think we can also all understand and respect this.
There are many variables that can affect a child's development, only some of them relate to parenting (i.e. we can't take the credit or blame for everything). And, it's really impossible to point to one aspect of parenting as the cause for anything in particular.

[Taurean]

I bought SOS while pregnant. I knew before the end of the first chapter that it definitely wasn't for us. One of my close friends has followed SOS religiously since her DD was 3 weeks old and swears by it. SOS, in her opinion, is her saviour. I don't agree with the routine but I don't judge her for using it. It works for both her and her DD and both are happy, lovely human beings. Her baby sleeps really well, but doesn't 'sleep through'. It means things are predictable for her but also VERY restricting. She is often house bound.

We choose to use gentle parenting techniques - mostly. My DD struggles to have naps in her cot during the day but she sleeps brilliantly on the go - so in the car, the pram or her favourite spot, in her sling attched to me. We don't really have a routine during the day, I just look for tired and hunger signs. It works for us.

We have a very successful breastfeeding relationship after 8 weeks of hell in the beginning. My DD has ALWAYS demand fed. We don't co-sleep. DD went into her cot in her room at 10 weeks. She slept through three nights running at 9 weeks then consistently from 10 weeks. Besides a few night feeds during wonder weeks and a couple of unsettled nights due to moving house recently, she has slept through since 10 weeks of age, anywhere between 10 and 12 hours straight.

We did not train our DD to fo this. We don't 'not hear' her at night (as I've been accused of in the past) as the Angel Care monitor is always on - I couldn't sleep without it! On the few occassions DD has woken during the night, I feed her. My boobs are always there for her . DD is rocked to sleep every night and for day sleeps, she doesn't self settle.

I guess I'm trying to say that babies are individuals, just like adults. They want to eat when they are hungry, they want a drink when they are thirsty and like to sleep when tired. Some need more food/drinks/sleeps than others. They are all individuals.

So whether you opt for routine or gentle parenting I think the most important thing to remember is we are all raising our children the way we think is best for our families and at the end of the day, the little individuals we are raising will often dictacte the way they are raised.

I hope that makes sense!

[Megan]

Going back to TH for a second.. did anyone happen to see her on the weekend at the Melb baby show?
I haven't read SOS, have only heard snippets of what it's about. But, I was completely put off by her presentation yesterday. She came across as cold, condescending and very very rigid in the way things "need" to be done. I felt like I was being told off by the principal since pretty much everything she said was not how we do things here! lol

Honestly, each to their own but it doesn't sit right with me. Everyone just needs to learn to respect others choices when it comes to parenting. My DS doesn't sleep through (but is getting there slowly) and I am always told he should be , just let him cry and he'll realise that's what he's supposed to do. I recently lost a friend over this very debate, because I didn't agree with what she was telling me to do. She was attacking my way of doing things, telling me I was wrong and should be letting him CIO so I could get some sleep. When I said that I didn't agree with it, she took that as me attacking her parenting and hasn't spoken to me since. It's sad. Healthy discussion of differing parenting styles is great, but there's no real need for the attacks. I honestly don't get it, that we can't be more supportive of each other (and agree to disagree nicely!) because this parenting caper is a hard gig!

[~Raven~]

She came across as cold, condescending and very very rigid in the way things "need" to be done. I felt like I was being told off by the principal

I thought the same when I saw her on the Today show (when SOS was released I think, so a few years ago now) where she is very "You MUST do this" "Your baby WILL sleep through if you FOLLOW the routine" so perhaps I don't have the most objective opinion of her. That and the "new member signing up to show support" testimonials we used to get. I'm surprised there hasn't been any offering their opinions in this thread so far

Dollyroux I guess that from face value it gives the impression that if you follow the routine to a T then you will have success, but so many don't actually follow it that closely from what I've read about the traps (not just on BB BTW) so I'm reading lots of praise for a routine that's not really being followed does that make sense.

I'm glad that what you took from it worked for you

[Nelle]

I think Raven's hit on the key issue for me. I think I'm okay with books that say 'here is how we suggest you parent, take and leave what works for you and your child'. I have received some really useful parenting tips that have shaped my parenting - from books I would not recommend to anyone else!!

I am wary of a 'one size fits all babies' approach. I don't mind the idea of principles that are true for everyone (for example, that children need to learn boundaries, that babies and parents need sleep), but I think that those principles should be taught in a method that best works for individual children.

So from my experience I'd be reluctant to say that any book is completely useless. Probably the good tip I like in a 'bad' book is also mentioned in a better book where it is complemented by many more good tips. I just don't like the idea of one parenting book being the 'bible'. I already have a bible.

[Bathsheba]

I bought SOS and Gina Ford's Contented Baby Book (similar philosophies) when I was pregnant with my second child as I had a 9 year gap between my 2nd and 1st babies and I felt like I needed help to get back into the swing of things. I knew that i wanted to be better prepared and these books seemed to promise that if I followed the routines everything would be perfect.

Baby arrived and in the first few weeks I didn't follow any routine... instinctually it felt "right" to establish trust with my baby by meeting all his needs as lovingly as possible as each need arose. So I BF on demand, co-slept and wore him alot.

After about a month I picked up the books and tried to follow the routines... but so little of it fitted into what we were doing. I felt that if I followed the routines my BFing success could be threatened. I did loosely adhere to the sleep/nap/tummy time schedule but I refused to wake my baby regardless of when he had drifted off... that just didn't make sense to me... who would wake a sleeping baby after only 15 minutes to fit into a routine???

So the books eventually gathered dust until I discovered BB. Through BB I discovered Pinky McKay's books and The Science Of Parenting. These books became my trusted reference books if anything started getting tricky.

I think the whole thing gets back to TRUST. You can have a baby that fits in with your life-style instead of visa versa but maybe the price is their trust? I know that my mother is a big advocate of children learning to fit in with the needs and requirements of the parent. She tries to drill this into me every phone call. I have never had the heart to tell her that the relationship i have with my children is closer that the one we had as mother and child. Maybe because I learnt early to silence my protests

I think it's ok to read any book about parenting. All information serves a purpose even if to only confirm how you don't want to do things. Once you make up your own mind though it's also better to let other people draw their own conclusions as well... more respectful. I recommend books but I don't say "You MUST read this"... instead I say "I found this really helpful/unhelpful". I believe that a good parenting guide will always remind the parent to trust their instincts. Humans are not machines... there is so much that constitutes a relationship between mother and child that cannot be put into words.

[skeetaboat]

I thought the same when I saw her on the Today show (when SOS was released I think, so a few years ago now) where she is very "You MUST do this" "Your baby WILL sleep through if you FOLLOW the routine" ...

Dollyroux I guess that from face value it gives the impression that if you follow the routine to a T then you will have success

Someone I know used SOS. She became really frustrated and depressed when it wouldn't work. When her child still wasn't sleeping through at 6 months, she left her to cry for 40-50 mins at a time.

Now I haven't read the book cover to cover (tossed it aside when I got to the part about children crying until they vomit), but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't advocate leaving your baby to cry for this long (? correct me if wrong), but the point I wanted to make is that because the book had convinced her that babies *can* and *should* sleep through with the routine, she was divorced from her instinct to try anything other than forcing her baby to conform to expectations. She took this book as the bible (which of course is silly, and exactly what everyone is saying shouldn't be done with any one book, but, at the time she was without much support, information or parenting education). I'm sure most mums would read TH with a critical eye and listen to cries with a critical ear, but here's at least one case where the advice has been "dangerous".

This child, now 3, has turned out emotionally withdrawn. She rarely smiles, or seeks out attention orcompany. She never laughs. She dislikes physical affection and wears a frown most of the time. It could be undiagnosed autism (however, communication motor skills, etc are all fine), but I'm pretty convinced that this is a perfect example of emotional shutdown as a result of CIO.

[Addison]

I am a HUGE fan of SOS being a first mother, it was extremely helpful. I found my son naturally fell into her sleeping patterns/ routines and slept through the night (12 hours) at 12 weeks old. My beautiful son LOVES his bed and we have no sleep issues at all. I highly recommend this book to anyone. At 16 months he still follows it perfectly. He still sleeps 12/13 hours a night and sleeps between 2 and 3 hours during the day and its all because of S.O.S.
So please don't be so hard on the book, it saved me from being sleep deprived.

[Lulu]

Of course it worked for you Addison - as you say, your son fell naturally into the sleeping routines.....and it's highly likely he would have done so anyway. The problem is with forcing a child into this routine and leaving them to cry for such long periods.
I'd be more inclined to believe your little fella was going to be an awesome sleeper from the start (as lots of them are), after 3 kids with 3 different sleeping patterns I can't believe a book can take all the credit!

[MantaRay]

I agree with you Lulu. One of mine was sleeping through by 6 weeks (but started waking in the night again at 6 months), and the other one needed at least one feed in the night until 12 months, but has always been a champion sleeper day and night. At 3 1/2 he still sleeps for 4 hours or more many days. All babies are different so some will fit into the routines in prescriptive books, but many won't. We have never had any trouble getting either of down for the night. All by following their own patterns and our instincts.

I have read all the baby books around and some are definitely better than others. However I don't think any of them are meant to followed entirely - instead they work best when you take the bits from each that make sense and seem to work for you and combine that with your own values and instincts, and the baby's natural patterns.

[MistyFying]

Just popping in to say "Welcome" to Addison hope to see you more around the forums. As a first time Mum, there's lots of information that could be useful to you in our articles section.... as well as the wonderful insights that can be gained from interacting with the other Mums and Dads on this forum.

[Addison]

Thanks MistyFying, I look forward to reading up on many of your forums.
Lulu and MantaRay I think you are both right, I may have had a good sleeper from the beginning, and you need to follow your parental instinct. I have given many of my friends the book SOS and said to them just take the parts you like or the parts you agree with and go from there.
Even if my little boy had not been a good sleeper, I think I still would of stuck it out and followed her routine as I was extremely sick after my sons birth and needed to sleep in order to recover from his birth. I was so week and tired I was in no position to feed on demand. I was unable to get out of bed to change him or even dress him, I needed round the clock care and was in and out of hospital. Next time I have a baby I am going to ask for a C Section.....can you do that?

[Lulu]

Check out the C-section support Addison. Although having a section won't change how many times you need to feed your baby or how often they sleep.

[issy02]

Addison - Welcome! From experience, I can tell you C-sections are sooooooo much harder! I had one with DS1 and a natural birth with tearing (stiches...then busted stiches!) and a kidney infection and I can tell you...i would choose the natural over c-section any day. Its major surgery and the recevery process is long and hard, and VERY painful! Not to mention the risks of surgery itself and post surgery. Not a fun or easier option...believe me!

[Addison]

Thanks Lulu I will check it out.
Issy02 Its really good to hear from someone who has experienced both. I never thought I would experience such a hard birth, thats why I thought C section would be the way to go...lol. I would rather a natural birth but after Hamish birth it has really frighten me.

[issy02]

After reading your post Addison, I can see why you may be frightened. But just remember, every birth is different, and quite often, subsequent births become 'easier' (im not sure easier is the word, but perhaps shorter in duration and familiar territory?) so have confidence in yourself hun, your next birth has a good chance for being completely different to your first.