TTC after Late Loss/ Recurrent Miscarriage/ Stillbirth after 1st trimester ~ Dec 2006

[Lynn]

That is excellent that you have got in Mel and that your DH is going with you. Drop in and let us know how you go.

Dream - everybody deserves a second, or third or fourth chance and you do too. You deserve another child just like the rest of us deserve a child. I have only lost one child and that was so late in the pregnancy when you think you are nearly there and think that nothing can happen. Carrying Cooper nearly to term and then losing him is heartbreaking, feeling those kicks and punches and then............nothing. Whether you have felt the kicks or not you are still a mummy and it doesn't matter when you lose a child it is still painful. All the hopes and dreams you have for that baby are gone. I had hopes and dreams for Cooper before he was even conceived. You have lost 13 babies and I just can't imagine the pain that you feel. I have lost one baby and I couldn't imagine going through this nightmare again. You are so strong and need to stay strong and I wish you all the best in being a fabulous mummy soon to your second earth baby.

Spring - I hope you got through all the packing ok. I have been thinking about you. I remember when I lost Cooper and I told DH to get rid of everything in the nursery - cot, change table, pram, clothes. But then I realised that our second child would have gotten these things anyway, it just will be a little sooner than expected. You will be able to set up your new nursery when you get to Sydney and hopefully a new city and new baby. I think men try to be strong. I know my DH tries to be strong for me but he has his low days too. I have come to realise that we all grieve differently and that is ok. I think I know the song you are talking about, is it by Puff Daddy? That is a very sad song and hits you straight in the heart.

Bailey - sorry I am unable to offer you advice as I didn't have a caesar. I hope you get the results you are wanting today - good luck.

Well I am trying to design Cooper's garden. I didn't think it would be this hard. I guess I just want it to be perfect. I need to go out to a garden centre and talk to someone but I just can't go out of the house today. I realised yesterday while talking to my counsellor that I find it hard to leave the house because it feels like I am leaving Cooper behind. Because I have his ashes at home in his cot, it is like he is here and when I go out I forget to take him with me. I know that he will always be in my heart and dreams but just having him at home makes it feel like he is actually here........just sleeping a lot in his cot.

I thought each day was supposed to get easier..................each day that goes by I miss him more and more and it just hurts so much.

[Baby~amore`]

Lynn- {{hugs}} such wise words from you- see you are already helping others through their loss, even in your own grief. I couldn't have said it as well to Dream. It is okay to have those feelings about Cooper's ashes.I did too.

Have you tried looking online for ideas ? we made a garden for Charlotte a rose garden and wishing well out of those garden blocks ... see the link in my signature.Though the roses are huge now.

Mel- wonderful you are able to get in to see counsellor

Bailey - I don't know for sure but I think they prefer at least 6 months to aloow healing of all the abdominal muscles and it is major abdo surgery but I do know others who haven't waited at all and have been okay.

Trish
"~♥~ DD Charlotte Rose 1/9/04 26wks ~♥~"
Samuel & Joel God's Gifts 1st July 06

[Spring Angel]

Oh Dream, please don't feel like one persons experience is any harder than the next. As the other ladies have said, you are an amazing woman for having the courage to keep trying. I am inspired by you and want you to know that no matter how many earth babies you have, as a woman it is your right to continue to have as many children as you desire. I sometimes feel envious of people who have children already, I think I just want to give a little person that I have created a warm cuddle, hold them near to me and tell them I love them. However I think losing a baby once you already have children presents so many different emotions because I guess you compare the earth baby with the angel baby. I just want you to know that if you decide that enough is enough, it is not giving up. You are a brave brave woman and I will miss you if you leave this thread but if you decide to leave, please drop in now and again and let us know how you are

Lynn: When I read what you said about not wanting to leave the house I can remember thinking exactly the same thing. It is the most aweful feeling of 'I have forgotten something' because Cooper is a part of you and it is totally natural to yearn for him. I would even spend hours daydreaming about what I would dress him in depending on the weather, which of his darling little booties, which of his precious outfits would suit where we were going. Even the prospect of leaving the house basically made me panic and for the first few tries I had to tell DH I couldn't do it and turn around and go home. I am usually such an outgoing person, really social (we have a great group of friends) but every time I let the house I had the most intense sense of guilt that I was leaving Harrison behind. To help me feel better I wear a heart pendant necklace. I wore a similar one while pregnant and I gave it to Harrison at the funeral. I also carry a little photo album with his pictures in it where ever I go, just so I know that if I need to see him, all I have to do is open my purse. I talk to him evey day and like you go into the nursery and open his windows. I kiss his urn and sometimes even tell him a fairytail. As all our stuff is packed at the moment, I have Harrison beside our blow up bed with a teddy, his little box of memories where we have kept all our treasured trinkets and a lovely angel penant that Mel gave to me. I give him a kiss morning and night. It is my way of continuing on his memory. I don't think it is weird, his is my child and my instinct to comfort him and love him is as strong as it could possibly be. I think the idea of the garden is wonderful, I almost feel like writing to Jamie Durie and getting him to do Coopers garden but that may not be what you would want. Just know that the feelings that you are having I have felt and continue to feel. Day by day babe, but just know that you will not be walking this painful path alone. We are all here for you.

Mel: I am so happy you got in with the psychologist. I won't go into what we discussed this arvo but I am sure when you visit later tonight you will share your experience. I hope Mexican was good and that you had a margarita for me like you promised

Bailey99: Hey honey, how did your results go. I have been thinking about you. When you are ready we are all here to support you no matter what the results.

Baby-amore: once I have posted this message I am going to look at Charlotte's garden. My stinking computer keeps freezing so I didn't want to risk losing this post. How are you sweety, I hope that you are well

Well to everyone else, all our things were moved today and we are sleeping on the blow up bed. Lucky it isn't O time otherwise I would be worried that it would pop (lol) Our belonings don't arrive in Sydney until Tuesday so we are spending each night out having dinner at friends houses. Tonight I am going to my big sisters house. Her support to DH and I since losing Harrison has been amazing. I love her so much and couldn't have asked for a better big sis.

I pop in later depending on what time we get home.

Hello to anyone I have missed.

Take care
Spring Angel

[Spring Angel]

PS

Spotting has started so I think it may be a BFN for us this month :frown: Got a BFN this morning but I am going to keep testing on the misguided hope that it is implantation bleeding.

I can only hope.

Luv Spring

[Mel1977]

Hi everybody,

Lynn - I can imagine how hard it is planning Cooper's garden, of course you want it to be perfect but just know he will love whatever you do because he knows it came from your heart. As far as it getting easier, its a tough one! I lost Nicholas 4 months and 7 days ago (but whos counting) and sometimes I think I am doing ok and things are getting easier but then something happens and I realise it is no easier at all. In a way I think maybe it does but more in the sense that you learn how to get through day to day life, which mind you is not easy at all, and how to cope with things such as leaving the house and so on. In terms of getting easier in the sense of accepting it and understanding it and properly coping with it, I think it takes a hell of a long time if at all. Don't put pressure on yourself to be ok, it has only been 1 and 1/2 months since you gave birth to Cooper and your whole world has been turned upside down, unfortunately it is gonna take an extremely long time and many many more tears before it even begins to turn the other way. Take care of yourself and know that we are all here for you whenever you need to vent your emotions :hugs:

Spring - I definitely had a margarita for you, one for me and one for you! I think they went straight to my head too :eek: You have no idea how happy I am that you have kept the pendant I gave you close by with Harrison's other belongings, it was intended to warm your heart and obviously it has so that makes my day

Ok well as for me I went and saw the psychologist. She was a really nice lady and made me realise something about myself which I think I have to try and change... I took everything she said so personally, almost like she was judging me! A couple of times I started defending myself and then realised I had misunderstood. Example being, I was telling her how desperate I feel to be pregnant again and how I feel I am going more down hill the longer it takes, so she started saying that is why sometimes they don't recommend trying so soon because your emotions are so raw and its alot harder to handle. She was saying that women look at having another baby almost as a replacement and she understands why but most people would say don't try. Well instead of hearing her out I kind of got upset and said I wasn't trying to replace my son, I will never be able to do that and nor would I want to but I had so many hopes and dreams for our family and I have a full nursery set up and no baby to sleep in there and well you all know how it goes, so anyway she told me I hadn't let her finish cause she going to say that this is what people say but that she thinks it is a natural want and need that women feel and that it is because their maternal insinct kicked in as soon as the pregnancy started, obviously only increasing that later in the pregnancy you get and therefore it is going against the nature of the instinct to not have your baby in your arms. I felt pretty silly for getting upset after that. Then at another point I thought she was judging me and DH because he has 3 kids with his ex, she was saying how we have a very complicated life and I said basically each to their own, life wasn't meant to be easy and we are used to it so it suits us fine, but DH actually butted in and told me that she is really talking about the last 4 months and that the kids being around all the time makes life more complicated because of the emotional stuff we are going through. Anyway, my point is that I have learnt (well hopefully I have anyway) to hear people out before I assume they are attacking me. So I am going to see her again on 25 Jan and she will talk to me more then, today was very much a get to know you. I showed her a photo of Nicholas and she said she thought he was beautiful and the photo was lovely cause he looked asleep. I liked that, I would show the world if I could but only problem is probably no one wants to see so I get really happy when someone does.

And what Spring was saying we discussed this arvo is that I have made the decision that I am not going to have the chicken pox vaccination. I have thought so much about it and have come to the conclusion that I cannot wait for all that time to TTC for my own sanity, without that hope and planning every month I don't know if I can get through. Sure, I get upset every time AF arrives but then I deal with it and start planning the next month. Without being able to do that I know I will fall to pieces. Basically, I figure I got through 29 years made up of kinda, primary school, high school, older sister having it when I was 4 and my adult years of working in the medical industry being around people all day every day and I have never had a problem - how likely is it that I am going to get it over 8 or 9 months of a pregnancy? I will not deliberately TTC this month simply because falling this month could conincide with Nicholas birthday, but I am not going to do anything to avoid it either iykwim. If I get AF next month I will go and have the hysterogram like Dr Umstad wants me to and then TTC seriously after that. If I am before that sobeit and I would welcome a new bubba regardless of the circumstances. I will however discuss my decision with Dr Umstad when I see him on 14 Feb. So that's the long and short of it - but you know it's always the long when it comes to me, lol

I hope everyone else is doing ok, Nat I have been thinking of you today and hope you are feeling a little better. Let us know how you are when you feel up to it.

Love Mel

P.S. Deb will be back soon, hope she is having fun on her holiday... lucky duck!

[bailey99]

Hi there, I hope you are all well. I had my appointment today and we found out that our daughter died from Pulmonary Hypoplasia and Hydrops, which is basically underdeveloped lungs and lots of fluid:frown: The doc said that it was "incompatable with life" and it is pretty much always fatal. Even if we discovered this in the beginning, there would have been nothing that could have been done, even if she made it full term, she couldn't survive. So that's it! 10 weeks of stressful, nervous waiting and guilt and self blame and then to find out that she was never going to come home with us. Well at least it is probably just a "fluke" and is highly unlikely to happen again, but I have to see a geneticist to really be sure. We are just shattered but at the same time relieved that we have an answer. The finding has also stopped alot of my "what if's" and "should have's" as I have felt so guilty and resposible this whole time, thinking I could or should have realised something was wrong and went to the hospital earlier. I don't really know how to feel at the moment. I just miss her so much, and I am so sad that she never had a chance from the beginning. Doc also said that I should wait at least 6 months to TTC because of the c-section, which is longer than I was hoping, but I guess is the right thing to do. Wow, I am sorry, probably just babbling now. Thanks again everyone for your words.

[Mel1977]

Oh Bailey - I am sorry to hear your little girl never had a chance I am glad though that you don't blame yourself anymore, you never were to blame all you ever did was love her, but just to be given that reassurance is at least a little comforting (believe me I know). I am also glad to hear that it is unlikely to happen again, hopefully by seeing the geneticist you will be able to get more reassurance of that. In saying that, even though you have some "answers" it is still so heartbreaking and doesn't make it any easier to live with. I am really sorry to hear that the drs want you to wait longer than you had hoped, it seems like forever huh? Please know that even if you have to wait to TTC we would all still like you to join in if you feel you can, hopefully you can still find some much needed support from us both during and following those 6 months.

Take care, Mel :hugs:

[kerry]

Do you think we could start a vent thread?... because I need to vent.

I pop in daily to read this thread but whenever I go to post something it seems so trite and inadequate and I just hit back and don't post it.

*hugs* to you all, and you really do have my admiration for being able to talk about your loss while I can't even acknowledge my angels in my signature.

I just thought I should add a thank you because even though I am in the shadows here I am selfishly getting support from you all that you don't even realise.

I think I just feel I shouldn't post here as I am not ttc and I don't feel that I belong in the m/c thread because sometimes I feel that I don't belong there because most of the girls while understanding the agony of our loss don't comprehend the feeling of repeated loss.

God this post id so dtupid, ok...well i think i'll go back to being an ostrich.

[Mel1977]

Hi Kerry,

If you are feeling something it is not inadequate so you should feel free to hit send, you might be surprised how much support you actually get. I am certainly no expert but maybe the reason you don't feel you can acknowledge your angels is because you don't feel there are people who will understand how you feel, I think you find that people here do and would try to help you through. I am glad you have found us all so indirectly supportive, and if you choose to stay in the shadows I hope we can continue to help you out. If you need to vent at any time vent away in here - trust me I do my fair share, lol

Take care,

Mel

[clare076]

Hi girls, just popping in to check on you all.

Kerry - honestly every feeling or thought you have about your babies is "adequate" enough to press send. If you need to vent, you can do that here too, the girls are awesome and despite the pain they are going through individually you will get nothing but support here. Sometimes I have felt bad posting about my angel because I lost him so much earlier than some of the girls lost their children, but my experiances and pain are still real and I have the need for support too, just like you do.

Spring - I still have my fingers crossed it is implantation spotting

Mel - I am glad you have managed to talk to someone. As far as the chicken pox vaccine, I have never know them to check for immunity anyway. I thought they only check for rubella immunity. Has DH's kids had chicken pox? That would be my only concern, especially if they are always around. But the decision is totally yours.

Lynn - have you considered making jewellary for other mums that have lost their babies? I only ask, because I have spent the last 2 months trying to find a bracelet very similar to the one you made for your family and cant find one anywhere.

Take care all, big hugs and kisses

[Mel1977]

Hi Clare,

Well I didn't know they checked either, all I know if that when the OB told me they have found the blood disorder he also said that I have shown no immunity to chicken pox so I would need to get a vaccination if I wasn't pregnant already. DH's kids have all been vaccinated, and my nephew also has and they are the only children I am around on a regular basis. And they are around alot but I don't have anything to do with their schools so I wouldn't be exposed to other kids there.

Anyway, how is your little miracle going? And how are you feeling, still sick?

Mel

[Lynn]

Hi everyone,

Clare - I have thought about donating bracelets to the hospital where Cooper was born for families affected by stillbirths. I was going to make one for mum and one for bub like I did for me and Cooper. I am more than happy to make you one. Feel free to email me and let me know what you would like. I make them out of crystal glass beads. Mine is clear and blue but I can make any colour.

Mel - I'm glad that you have made a decision about your injection. It must be a weight lifted off your shoulders as I'm sure you were thinking about it all the time. I can totally understand that you can't wait 5 months to TTC. I know I couldn't. I got through my pregnancy with Cooper with a low rubella immunisation, I'm sure you will too. I know what you mean about needing something to get through each day. I'm glad that you saw the psychologist. I have been seeing one for 3 weeks now and I'm not sure if it is helping as I feel like I am crying my eyes out the whole time. I guess it is good just to do that. Why do people not want to see a photo of Nicholas - I would love to.

Trish - I hope I am helping people. I have just received so much support here and I just want to give some back. Sometimes I just don't know what to say so I hope I am writing the right thing. Charlotte's garden is beautiful. Mine won't be that big but I will try to make it just as special. I think I know what I am going to do now - just need DH to build the garden bed. It will be made out of the same blocks you used for charlotte's garden because we already have garden beds made out of them and have some left over. I found a cherub statue and am getting a plaque made. I also found a cherub on a star - can you believe that? I wouldn't have been able to find one if I tried but I just saw it in Bunnings and had to buy it (well 4 of them actually!). Stars mean so much to me as Cooper has a star named after him.

Spring - I'm sure Jamie Durie would do an amazing garden but this is something that I want to design and do myself. But thank you for the thought. When are you moving to Sydney? I hope you get your BFP and that it is only implantation spotting. Fingers crossed.

Kerry - Sometimes I do the same thing. Write a post and then hit back. I don't know why, maybe I don't know how I am feeling, what I am feeling and so don't know how to communicate it with others. I just have so many feelings flying around at the moment, I just don't know how to talk about them.

Bailey - It must be a relief to know the reason why you lost your little angel. I'm so sorry that she never had a chance. I know the feeling about blaming yourself. I was there - still am.

I know that losing Cooper was just an accident (stupid cord) but I still don't understand how something like this can happen. Isn't the cord supposed to give them life? How does it happen to me but not the next person but then targets the person after that - why are we picked? How won't it happen again? I just keep thinking if only I had realised he wasn't moving I could have gone to the hospital and saved him. I thought I could feel him kicking even when I was told there was no heartbeat - how am I meant to know what is a brackston hick and what is bubby kicking. And if I didn't know with Cooper, how will I know next time.

The worst part is that Cooper passed a few days before I was told there was no heartbeat (what kind of a mother doesn't know her bubby isn't moving?????) and so his skin was very soft when he was born. DH and I made the decision that we would be the only ones to hold and see Cooper but now I am having regrets. I wished that my parents could have held him. We took photos but decided that they would only be for us. We have only showed our families a photo of his feet and hands but that is it. I read how some of you have photos of your babies around the house and I can't do that. I'm just so angry at myself because if I had realised sooner that his little heart had stopped, he could have been born sooner. I just feel terrible that I did that to his skin and that he was never given the chance to be held by his grandparents. But we just didn't want to hurt him anymore. He was just so perfect and beautiful.

[Spring Angel]

Kerry, boy do you sound like me. Sometimes I write a post and think, am I two!!! I feel like I can't put into words what is in my mind and my heart but the best thing is that even if you ramble, say something that doesn't make sense or the words just arn't right, everyone in here will know exactly what you mean and will not judge you if your words fail you. I hope you keep visiting us, and I hope that we can keep giving you support from afar.

Lynn - Mel and I have discussed exactly what you mentioned about the babies skin. The doctors call it skin slip. Even though I made it to the hospital with 12 hours of Harrison becoming an angel, his was still fragile and tore in some places. I found that so difficult to deal with and have only every discussed how it made me feel with Mel and DH, so please, please do not feel like you are a bad mother for not realising Cooper had become an angel. I too thought I could still feel Harrison moving and even to this day I occasionally have to tell myself that it was not a kick I just felt.... We too had to decide who would hold Harrison, we chose only immediate family and three of my closest girlfriends that I had known since Primary school. I don't know if we made the right decision, did people only hold him because they felt obligated, were they scared of how he looked or how he felt, was holding Harrison only something DH and I should have had the honour of doing? It is amazing how your mind is your worst enemy and you second guess every decision you have made. But Lynn, you made the right decision for you at that time. I wanted photos of Harrison but when I was taking them I was worried that it would be disrespectful to him. I look at those photos all the time, his skin may be mottled, his lips a deep crimson read and his little hands gently cleanched, but he is our son and no matter what, his is the most amazingly beautiful person. Don't be concerned if you aren't ready to show his pictures, you may never want to share them but if you feel that you would like to, I would be honoured to see him.

I will be in Sydney on Tuesday 16, and DH has organised for the internet to be connected that day so as soon as we are organised I will get online and say howdy neighbour.

Mel: How you doing today babe? How is AF treating you? Has she left you alone yet? I understand you decision to not get the injection and I know that it is a very well considered decision. I also know that as you say you have made it to 29 without a problem so I think that you are doing the right thing for you. Fingers crossed for a BFP this month. I know it may coincide with Nicholas' 1st Birthday but I also know he would want his Mummy and Daddy to be happy no matter what.

Hey Clare: I was wondering how you were honey and glad you popped in. You are one of our first success stories so you just have to keep us up to date. Are you starting to feel a little more relaxed? Stupid question huh but I really hope that you are getting excited about that miracle growing in your belly.

Bailey99: I hope that you feel some comfort in the fact that you have an answer to why your little baby became an angel. I am sure it is bittersweet for you but it is reassuring that the doctors said it is highly unlikely to happen again. On the guilty feeling you have, I have spent so much time and energy feeling guilty. I just want you to know that there was nothing, nothing you could have done. Hope you are feeling OK sweety and that you stick around our thread.


Trish: I followed the link to Charlottes Garden and it looks like a wonderful, magical place. You must feel so comforted sitting on those benches and know that it is a speacial area for your little angel to rest her wings. I wish I was that talented and had a green thumb like you.


Oh well, we are going out for dinner again tonight because all our stuff is in a truck on the way to Sydney. We just went to see Pursuit of Happiness and it was such an inspiring movie. The main character Chris overcame so much in his pursuit of happiness. I warn you though, take alot of tissues, it is a tear jearker.

Spotting has eased off today but that seems to be how AF is these days.

Still testing like a maniac so I'll let you know if I see that magical second line.

Love
Spring

[kerry]

Thanks girls. OK here is a quick run down..
Angel1 - lost at 13w due to domestic violence (previous partner), Angel2 - lost at 8w,
Angel3 - lost at 8w (Brigid's twin), Angel4 - lost at 9w (fell pg 5w after B's birth), Angel6 - lost at 6w (one of triplets), Angels7&8 - boys, born sleeping at 15w, un-named (Nov 06).

I am currently having every test known to man run on me, but it looks like there has been some internal scarring from the incident with my first angel (and a previous incident) and also some carry over auto immune problems from some tropical disease I caught as a teenager. It just seems every time I have tests they find more problems, some of which mean gene councelling, some which actually need medical intervention on their own, and but still no definative answers. My doctor calls Brigid my stay behind angel as she has a birthmark in the middle of her back licke a bruise right between her shoulder blades.. he says its where her wings would have been but she stuck... I just cry every time I see it, which is everyday as my DP is now my XP and I have to do all the dressing and bathing.

Sometimes I wonder what I have done wrong and why I don't deserve to have my babies stay with me... other times I wonder what I have done right that I have my little miracle bub.

[Baby~amore`]

Lynn I could have written those exact words

The worst part is that Cooper passed a few days before I was told there was no heartbeat (what kind of a mother doesn't know her bubby isn't moving?????) and so his skin was very soft when he was born. DH and I made the decision that we would be the only ones to hold and see Cooper but now I am having regrets. I wished that my parents could have held him. We took photos but decided that they would only be for us. We have only showed our families a photo of his feet and hands but that is it. I read how some of you have photos of your babies around the house and I can't do that. I'm just so angry at myself because if I had realised sooner that his little heart had stopped, he could have been born sooner. I just feel terrible that I did that to his skin and that he was never given the chance to be held by his grandparents. But we just didn't want to hurt him anymore. He was just so perfect and beautiful.

I didn't know either and so did many others I have spoken too. It is so sad we were so innocent then.

My Dad passed away 5 days beofre Charlotte's 1st anniversary and we never even told him we were doing IVF ... he was in the same hospital were we were doing it and where he passed away.I regret he never got to hold my daughter or sons.In fact the last time I saw him alive was by accident when we were going for a transfer (unsuccessful though) we bumped into him & Mum in the corridor of Westmead hosp -(a huge hosp if you don't know) - then we didn't to see him as I had a cold and too busy :frown:.


We made our garden on longweekend 4 wks after Charlotte passed away and 3 weeks after we moved to this house without her .. that we bought becasue of her coming.So it was fitting. We have angel statues too and a little girl on a mushroom. I am sure whatever you do will honour Cooper.The cherub on a star sounds perfect.

I wanted to tell you ladies too a lady does pastel and pencil sketchs from photos and removes the blemishes so you can display them on the wall. Many of my friends have have them done and they are so beautiful. I can email her details. Not that they aren't beautiful as we saw them but photos don't do them justice and so sad a reminder. Plus many of us just don't want anyone to see our angels that way.

I have wanted to get a sign and plague made but haven't yet ... I saw a beautiful teddy on in bronze - as we don't have her ashes at home but it is used for a gravesite .

Bailey - I am so sorry for your little girl what did you name her ? if you don't mind.

Spring - again your words are so errily like what I feel/felt.we have tickets to see that movie - thanks for the warning did you see the guy IRL on Oprah.

[Baby~amore`]

Jo
I was typing at same time.I am so sorry for your little angels ... words fail me I just can't imagine losing so many precious babies. Brigid is one special little girl.

[Mel1977]

Hey there,

Well thank god it's the weekend, goodbye to another long crappy week. DH's kids are staying for a week as of tonight so we are going to have a very busy week. Had alot of trouble getting them to go to sleep tonight (one reason to hate daylight savings!), lots of talking and mucking around coming from their bedroom but we eventually got there so here I am.

Lynn - I too felt like you did early on, why had I not known something was wrong? I had pains over night on the Sunday when he died and I slept on and off until after 1pm that day and kept telling myself he must have been moving while I was asleep. I only rang the hospital to check because I had a bit of spotting. While I was laying in the delivery suite waiting to be taken for my ultrasound (after they couldn't find a heartbeat) I looked at my tummy and told DH that I could see my belly throbbing so maybe there was some hope. As we all know hope was gone as he had already passed away. As Spring said, her and I have discussed "skin-slip", Nicholas' skin was so delicate that he had a mark on his left hand because I must have accidentally caught it with my nail and I felt so awful when I noticed it and it really ate me up for a while - actually we had a bookmark made up with his photo on it to hand out at the funeral, and I remember at the funeral DH's 6 year old son came up to me and said "Mel, what is that mark on Nicky's hand?", I just burst into tears. I have shown quite a few people photos (we went crazy and took lots) but I generally choose the less confronting photos so as to not scare people. I have found a few people have avoided looking at photos, I can't really tell you why and it does upset me greatly when they say they don't want to. Afterall he may be sleeping but he is just a little innocent baby, how can that be scary? One person said that they find it too upsetting so didn't want to look, and I always think well how upsetting do you think it is to me that my friend doesn't want to look at my son? Unfortunately I have never said anything to anyone, I have just sat there quietly with my thoughts of how hurt I am. I would be thrilled for you to see a photo of Nicholas if you want to, I would put one on the bottom of one of my posts for people to click on but to be honest I have no idea how to do it. I would be happy to email it to you if you wanted to tell me your email address though.

Anyway, I agree with Spring, the decision you made was what felt right at the time and those photos are your only special memories of him so you have to do what your heart tells you. I am sure he is so beautiful, I wouldn't be concerned about his skin or anything he is perfect in every way and always will be. I don't think you should beat yourself up about Cooper not having the chance to be held by his grandparents, the main thing to him is that he was held and cuddled by his mummy and daddy and he knows you were only looking out for his best interests because thats what mummys and daddys do. I also wanted to share with you that in the beginning I went through the same thing about if only I had known earlier, and I said this to the midwives and the ob and I was told by all of them that even if I had of known what was happening, by the time I had of gotten to hospital, been prepped for theatre and a caesar performed he would have probably already been gone and if not, had severe brain damage because of lack of oxygen. I don't know if that will help you stop blaming yourself but please know that there was absolutely nothing you could have done any different. And as far as the crying goes, unfortunately that is going to be the case for a long time. In my opinion crying is healthy, it means you are releasing that tension and emotion. You release it, it builds up again so quickly and you release it again. That's what crying is, it's a physical release and we need to do it. Take care of yourself and I hope Cooper's garden turns out to be perfect, just like him

Spring - I wanted you to know that as well as you, regardless of Harrison's skin, crimson lips, and clenched hands (which as you know Nicholas also had) I also think he is a beautiful little boy. As you know seeing him touched my heart and I think he is amazing too, and you are just as amazing because you created him (along with DH of course) :hugs: My AF has been very kind this time round, she came Monday and I have only had a little spotting that last couple of days and not really anything too heavy the whole time. I so have my fingers crossed for you at the moment, a little hope never hurt anybody huh!

Jo - (So sorry I called you Kerry before) I am so sorry for everything you have been through, life can be so cruel and I don't understand why and don't think I ever will :frown: What the dr said about the mark on Brigid's back being where her wings would have been made me feel so emotional, I am so happy she "stuck". You have done absolutely nothing wrong to make you deserve this, I don't think any of us have and it sucks and its unfair. I really do wish you the very best for the future and I hope your dreams come true, but in the meantime I hope we can offer you support and I hope that you feel a little less heavy (iykwim) by telling us about your angels.

Trish - Charlotte's garden is lovely, it must be such a peaceful place to sit and think about her.

Nat - You haven't popped in for a couple of days so I just wanted to say I hope you are ok and I am thinking of you. When you feel up to it, let us know how you are going. Until then look after yourself.

To everyone else, I hope you are all well.

Oh well, another predictably long post from me so I will be off now that I have bored you all to tears!.

Mel

[Spring Angel]

Jo : you have been walking a terrible and heartbreaking road honey, you are very brave for sharing your story of your angel babies with us. I think that the Doctor may be right about the birthmark on your DD back . What a wonderful thought. My heart goes out to you babe and I am sending you a HUGE :hugs:

Trish: I am sorry you lost your Dad honey, what a tough thing to go through around the time of Charlotte's anniversary. I am sure they are up there looking over you. Your own little angels.

Mel: Another crazy weekend with the Kids. Are they taking it easy on you and DH? Well hopefully AF is well and truly gone so you can look forward to TTC this month. I hope with all my might that this is your month babe

Well me.......OK I don't know how to deal with this but I think there may be, and I say may be a feint second line. I am due for AF tomorrow and even though I have had a little spotting I thought I would still test because I am an addict. Anway considering I think I am 11 DPO I may still be in with a chance.

I kinda feel numb, it isn't a line by any stretch of the imagination, more like a pink shaddow but I remember the first few when I had the twins and they were simlar. I just woke up DH to tell him and he is estatic but as the cautious person he is he suggested, honey just wait a few days and teat again.... Hey I am not even going to wait until lunch buddy to test again (lol) I am not letting myself believe it because for all I know AF will be here tomorrow but I just hope so bad that the shaddow keeps getting darker.

I didn't know if I should say anything yet but I figure if I do get AF then I will need you wonderful ladies for support so what the heck.

Just how long can you look at a stupid little stick without going cross eyed?

I think Flowerchild will be back today but it will probably take her a week to catch up on all the chatter. Kirsty, how are you hun? Hope you are doing ok.

Anyway, I am going to look at my stick some more (lol)

Talk later,

Oh please, please let it be a sticky